Main Military Weapon of Your Country (Mk. IV) The Proper Un

[Gridea]

There isn't much useful you can add to an M4 than you can't add to an L85.

Shoot. Forgot the current iteration of L85s have rail systems ... DAMN YOU MODERNIZATION!

Anyways, the last thing I could add to this argument is more versatility; I study off of the Magpul Dynamics way of firearms manipulation, and I'm trying to find how exactly a bullpup could be run in these trials. In almost every other maneuver Costa and Haley made, they transitioned sides of the firearm (almost always AR-15 style). If you did that with a bullpup, I'm sure you'd get shells in the face. (I see this as really only so much a difference from other firearms; an advantage, but not a big one.)

No amount of customization will fix the problem that it's gas system is prone to overheating even in normal situations and that it needs to be cleaned after every damn firefight.

Seriously, customization shouldn't be an issue unless your military is spec-ops heavy.

The Gas system I could change for a short-stroke conversion, but then again, that's making it not an M4.
As for customization, I can understand that.

[Mosasauria]

There isn't much useful you can add to an M4 than you can't add to an L85.

Shoot. Forgot the current iteration of L85s have rail systems ... DAMN YOU MODERNIZATION!

Anyways, the last thing I could add to this argument is more versatility; I study off of the Magpul Dynamics way of firearms manipulation, and I'm trying to find how exactly a bullpup could be run in these trials. In almost every other maneuver Costa and Haley made, they transitioned sides of the firearm (almost always AR-15 style). If you did that with a bullpup, I'm sure you'd get shells in the face. (I see this as really only so much a difference from other firearms; an advantage, but not a big one.)

No amount of customization will fix the problem that it's gas system is prone to overheating even in normal situations and that it needs to be cleaned after every damn firefight.

Seriously, customization shouldn't be an issue unless your military is spec-ops heavy.

The Gas system I could change for a short-stroke conversion, but then again, that's making it not an M4.
As for customization, I can understand that.

Not with the F2000 or RFB you wouldn't. Foward-ejecting(Or even TKB-style) bullpups have major advantages over others. Their only weak point is that such systems make it difficult to access the chamber.

And changing the gas system of an M4 would likely make it a short-barreled AR-18, provided you're going for a long-stroke instead.

[Gridea]

Not with the F2000 or RFB you wouldn't. Foward-ejecting(Or even TKB-style) bullpups have major advantages over others. Their only weak point is that such systems make it difficult to access the chamber.

And changing the gas system of an M4 would likely make it a short-barreled AR-18.

Well, I meant in this case the L85. But point seen.

Understood.

[New Conglomerate]

No amount of customization will fix the problem that it's gas system is prone to overheating even in normal situations and that it needs to be cleaned after every damn firefight.

Seriously, customization shouldn't be an issue unless your military is spec-ops heavy.

The Gas system I could change for a short-stroke conversion, but then again, that's making it not an M4.
As for customization, I can understand that.

If you're going to change the gas system to a short-stroke, might as will switch to the ACR.

[Indeos]

I would think that if we counted the customizablity of the M4 or AR-15 series, we could say that M4/AR is better. I'd want my soldiers to augment their weapons for their own purposes (Just got to let them know that if they augment a certain part that logistics won't help get a new one).

So... A widespread use SOPMOD kit?
The only way to make an M4 good is to not use STANAGs, lubricate it frequently, and only use one of the newer, better 5.56mm rounds, such as M855A1.

The STANAG magazine is fine if taken care of, lube should be a given for DI, and M855A1 given for 5.56 NATO. So you're pretty much right.

There isn't much useful you can add to an M4 than you can't add to an L85.

Shoot. Forgot the current iteration of L85s have rail systems ... DAMN YOU MODERNIZATION!

Anyways, the last thing I could add to this argument is more versatility; I study off of the Magpul Dynamics way of firearms manipulation, and I'm trying to find how exactly a bullpup could be run in these trials. In almost every other maneuver Costa and Haley made, they transitioned sides of the firearm (almost always AR-15 style). If you did that with a bullpup, I'm sure you'd get shells in the face. (I see this as really only so much a difference from other firearms; an advantage, but not a big one.)

I doubt transitioning sides constantly is much of an advantage in a firefight, to be honest. If I understand what you're saying correctly they switched hands, which seems really stupid.

[Gridea]

I doubt transitioning sides constantly is much of an advantage in a firefight, to be honest. If I understand what you're saying correctly they switched hands, which seems really stupid.

It's to get the most out of your cover by only having your gun and necessary body parts out there instead of putting your body out there when you're trying to fire from the left side of cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcT1mw0i4fE
At 1:07, you see the man running up to his new position, demonstrating the transition.

[EsToVnIa]

Currently, I'm deciding between the Zastava M70 and the Vz. 58. So if anybody has any advice on which one would be better, it would be gladly appreciated.

[Indeos]

I doubt transitioning sides constantly is much of an advantage in a firefight, to be honest. If I understand what you're saying correctly they switched hands, which seems really stupid.

It's to get the most out of your cover by only having your gun and necessary body parts out there instead of putting your body out there when you're trying to fire from the left side of cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcT1mw0i4fE
At 1:07, you see the man running up to his new position, demonstrating the transition.

Yeah, it's silly. Unless you can actually shoot both ways, you're not going to get great results, and transitioning anywhere besides behind cover means you won't be shooting back.

[Gridea]

Yeah, it's silly. Unless you can actually shoot both ways, you're not going to get great results, and transitioning anywhere besides behind cover means you won't be shooting back.

I can understand. It all comes down to training in this case, I guess.

[Mosasauria]

Currently, I'm deciding between the Zastava M70 and the Vz. 58. So if anybody has any advice on which one would be better, it would be gladly appreciated.

M70.
M70 is a long stroke. And it has a folding stock. And, while the barrel is more susceptible to corrosion, it's more accurate than the AKM. And it's sights are illuminated by tritium.
Meanwhile, the Vz. 58 is a short stroke that has an unusual rotating hammer. It's also noted to be unreliable in both performance and accuracy.

[Nornalhorst]

How about 700m/sec and a range of 6500-7000m for the Banshee?
Also now do I think about it this launcher is going to be quite heavy maybe I should reduce it to two barrels instead of 4. Maybe something like this except with a longer, thinner tube and shoulder fired.
(Image)

As for the 30x234mm round considering that 30x173mm has a muzzle velocity of 1070m/sec I'm guessing it would have a muzzle velocity of around 1500m/s but this is just a wild guess. As for the type of round, designing it to be something like the PGU-14/B might be a good idea. From the article it says the 30mm API round used by the military is this: I don't expect it to pierce the armor of a tank but could it threaten a Bradley IFV or at least an APC like the Stryker.

When it comes to performance against tanks would a 120mm recoiless rifle be outperformed by your standard anti-tank missile like a TOW or Javelin?

On the missile the velocity isn't a issue and it could actually go a bit faster (up to mach 2.6 or so) but its the fuel to actually go beyond 5000m that you'll be hurting for.


Are you sure you want API as opposed to APFSDS? For ground applcaitions APFSDS tends to work a lot better and is likely going to give you a solid 100-120mm RHA penetration as opposed 70-80mm for an API load.

And yes the a 120mm recoiless rifle will be out performed my msot ATGMs as they tend to have larger calibre warheads or have top attack functions.

Okay, I see what you are saying the range is unrealistic. I guess a more realistic Banshee man-portable surface to air missile would be a two shot (having a multi-shot launcher might increase the probability of hitting the target) rocket launcher firing a 10kg fire and forget missile which has a maximum range of 5000m and a maximum velocity of around 700-900m/sec.

I do not know much about anti-armor warfare but how well do you think a high velocity 30x237mm DU APFSDS round would perform against armor? Could it penetrate or threaten the Stryker? Could it penetrate a Bradley IFV? If a sniper fired this at a M1A2 Abrams at relatively close range would he do more than just scratch some paint?

As for the power of a recoilless rifle ATGMs usually fire missiles with 3 to 9kg warheads while a 120mm recoilless rifle fires tank shell sized projectiles at around 13kg and they generally have a higher muzzle velocity than an anti-tank missle. Recoilless rifles would lack the guidance of ATGMs so top-attack firing is not possible. Anyway what are some of the pros and cons of using a recoilless rifle system instead of anti-tank missiles for an infantry anti-tank weapon and what roles are both weapons generally used for?

[Ea90]

What's the maximum range(And by this, I mean the point where the bullet falls to the ground) for the M4?
And also, is the L85 superior to the M4?

Unless you are left-handed, than yes.

[Yellow Zone 20-A]

I need an Assault rifle, a light machine gun, a sniper rifle and a cheaper assault rifle for Militia that all use the same cartridge.
So what would be my options?
Some help would be nice.
And if you want to direct me to your own storefront:Go for it!

[Samozaryadnyastan]

For the first question, that will never really be useful and it depends on the angle you fire it.
For the second, yes, very much so.

The first part was because some guy claimed with "experience" claimed that the M4 could accurately hit targets up to 800 meters away.
As for the second, an M4 fanboy refused to believe that a bullpup AR-18 was better than the M4.

People get that way, especially on the internetz.

If you tune it up enough, you could probably get it to hit targets accurately at sub-500m, the M4 doesn't have great range because of its short barrel and intermediate-power cartridge - this would obviously require some kind of modified non-issue upper receiver module that a US soldier would have to bring himself and use in place of his issued M4A1 upper.. The 5.56 (M855A1) round can be made to accurately hit targets at 1km in testing, though I don't know how that would be done.

[Immoren]

I need an Assault rifle, a light machine gun, a sniper rifle and a cheaper assault rifle for Militia that all use the same cartridge.
So what would be my options?
Some help would be nice.
And if you want to direct me to your own storefront:Go for it!

Assault rifle
LMG
Sniper rifle (Yes I know this uses different cartridge.)
Cheaper AR

[Novo Casttria]

I need an Assault rifle, a light machine gun, a sniper rifle and a cheaper assault rifle for Militia that all use the same cartridge.
So what would be my options?
Some help would be nice.
And if you want to direct me to your own storefront:Go for it!

Try Medrennengrad Arms

[Samozaryadnyastan]

I need an Assault rifle, a light machine gun, a sniper rifle and a cheaper assault rifle for Militia that all use the same cartridge.
So what would be my options?
Some help would be nice.
And if you want to direct me to your own storefront:Go for it!

Apologies for nit-picking, but if you want a sniper rifle using the same cartridge as an assault rifle, then technically you're only looking at a low-powered DMR like the Mk12SPR.

However, the SA-AR-1 "Doberman" Mod 3 family fulfils light rifle (carbine), medium rifle and SAW/DMR roles - and I could always do what the AI Arctic Warfare did and produce the .338 SA-SR-4 "Wraith" SRS in a 7.62x51 NATO variant to match the Doberman family for cartridge used.

For actual assault rifles, the SA-AR-3 "Rottweiler" Mod 2 rifle family. Again, a carbine, a standard rifle and an HBAR variant suitable for SAW and DMR roles. Also a 'PDW' variant.

[Yellow Zone 20-A]

I need an Assault rifle, a light machine gun, a sniper rifle and a cheaper assault rifle for Militia that all use the same cartridge.
So what would be my options?
Some help would be nice.
And if you want to direct me to your own storefront:Go for it!

Apologies for nit-picking, but if you want a sniper rifle using the same cartridge as an assault rifle, then technically you're only looking at a low-powered DMR like the Mk12SPR.

However, the SA-AR-1 "Doberman" Mod 3 family fulfils light rifle (carbine), medium rifle and SAW/DMR roles - and I could always do what the AI Arctic Warfare did and produce the .338 SA-SR-4 "Wraith" SRS in a 7.62x51 NATO variant to match the Doberman family for cartridge used.

For actual assault rifles, the SA-AR-3 "Rottweiler" Mod 2 rifle family. Again, a carbine, a standard rifle and an HBAR variant suitable for SAW and DMR roles. Also a 'PDW' variant.

Well they are for my designated marksmen really, i don't know what i am going to use for my special ops snipers.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

I would think that if we counted the customizablity of the M4 or AR-15 series, we could say that M4/AR is better. I'd want my soldiers to augment their weapons for their own purposes (Just got to let them know that if they augment a certain part that logistics won't help get a new one).

There isn't much useful you can add to an M4 than you can't add to an L85.

I think it's more a case of multiple uppers to the M4, something the L85 can't do. For example, Beowulf uppers, P90-magazine-accepted uppers (AR-57), 6.8SPC uppers, ComBloc uppers and, were it to exist, uppers (just a new barrel) for the 5.45x45 Samozniy.

[Yellow Zone 20-A]

So far i have the option Immoren gave me, and apart from the sniper/dmr i like it.

[The Reliquary]

SpecterDR ripoffs complete.
Shall I do a SpecterHR machine-gun sight as I linked above?

Thinking about adding a conventional red dot, plus a flip-up magnifier sight.

SUSAT or nothing.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

SpecterDR ripoffs complete.
Shall I do a SpecterHR machine-gun sight as I linked above?

Thinking about adding a conventional red dot, plus a flip-up magnifier sight.

SUSAT or nothing.

British Army of glory abandoned SUSAT for ACOG for a reason.
Not that I know what it was.

[EsToVnIa]

Currently, I'm deciding between the Zastava M70 and the Vz. 58. So if anybody has any advice on which one would be better, it would be gladly appreciated.

M70.
M70 is a long stroke. And it has a folding stock. And, while the barrel is more susceptible to corrosion, it's more accurate than the AKM. And it's sights are illuminated by tritium.
Meanwhile, the Vz. 58 is a short stroke that has an unusual rotating hammer. It's also noted to be unreliable in both performance and accuracy.

Alright so M70 it is then, thanks for the help

[Celtic Colonies]

For the first question, that will never really be useful and it depends on the angle you fire it.
For the second, yes, very much so.

The first part was because some guy claimed with "experience" claimed that the M4 could accurately hit targets up to 800 meters away.

The bullet will indeed be capable of travelling that far, if the rifle is angled up far enough. Thing is, ignoring air resistance, max range occurs at 45degrees elevation, & I've seen claims that 5.56N will get to 2000m+ in that scenario. So 800m with more moderate elevation is certainly physically possible, and I suppose in ideal atmospheric conditions you might still hit the target if the rifle were held very stably.
Of course, whether being able to hit a target at 800m with an M4 leaves enough energy in the round to do anything useful is a whole other question.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The first part was because some guy claimed with "experience" claimed that the M4 could accurately hit targets up to 800 meters away.

The bullet will indeed be capable of travelling that far, if the rifle is angled up far enough. Thing is, ignoring air resistance, max range occurs at 45degrees elevation, & I've seen claims that 5.56N will get to 2000m+ in that scenario. So 800m with more moderate elevation is certainly physically possible, and I suppose in ideal atmospheric conditions you might still hit the target if the rifle were held very stably.
Of course, whether being able to hit a target at 800m with an M4 leaves enough energy in the round to do anything useful is a whole other question.

M855A1 apparently is capable of penetrating a kevlar vest at 1000m.