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ak47

Nachmere wrote:

Gallia- wrote:

yeh

basic trianing as is is basically an extended hazing ritual punctuated by machine gun fire and sweaty dudes showering together

interesting, is that your experience as a trainee or as a drill sgt?

is being told to run 5 km in combat boots while drunk hazing or military training?

what about having to do 100 pushups? 20? 10? corrective physical punishment in a school setting easily constitutes hazing and abuse, and not only because of physical defects created by it for children in puberty

in a setting that isnt the army or w/e, being told to do n pushups because of an infraction constitutes abuse, while in the army it's prescribed in training manuals so long as the DS involved keeps in mind that he isnt overtraining his soldier and actually weakening him as a result (FM 7-22 prescribes 5 reps for corrective physical punishment and probably serves as a humiliation method to shame the soldier more than anything else)

hazing actually serves a useful function though, otherwise it wouldnt keep cropping up in random cultures the world over, because brain also rationalizes effort expended attaining something (membership in a group, possibly "name-brand" goods, etc.) by valuing it higher which translates to group loyalty

the value-based decision making that hazing exploits is the same reason Caucasian militaries have high esprit de corps and the same reason abuse victims tend to return to their abusers and the same reason that people "prefer" name-brand goods to generic goods despite them being the same things in the end

ofc but now we have psychological batteries and political conditioning to perform its principal functions (screening group newcomers and creating group loyalty) anyway that both do it faster and safer/better

it's liek mechanized agrictulture vs. foraging

the point is hazing is mostly relative (and probably an artifact of human evolutionary psychology) and depends on the given situation specifics

tho that doesnt change the fact that if you transplant even prescribed military training to any other setting besides maybe an athletic team it's going to constitute physical abuse at best

hazing is dumb when we have more modern methods of conditioning but the line between hazing and acceptable conditioning is blurry and vague esp. if they're both intended to accomplish the same thing

if hazing were evolutionarily disadvantaged it simply wouldnt exist, but it does exist and cant really be eliminated, so it's like the baseline or floor of human group vetting of prospects if youre unable to or incapable of using other methods and it has clear benefits esp. when nothing else exists which is for most of human history

obv a prof who makes someone do 5 reps of push-ups for failing a test could (hopefully, would) easily be reported for abuse/hazing/humiliation of pupil because it's radically different from the individual/self-driven corrective shaming in Western schooling, while the same thing is fine in DS training manuals and probably encouraged because it's so radically different relatively compared to something like beasting/smoking of the training platoon

idk how else to put it rly

one last post

tbf that DI was probably just racist

I shall with your permission respond to you in the other thread.

o k

e: with the caveat that you can quote the last three lines of text and lose basically zero meaning because the department of redundancy department vets all my posts

idt is just like lazarus

you cant kill the messiah

Panzer why didn't you turn off the lights and lock the thread. You were the last out :V

I am contributing to an evening out of the bell curve.

Fordorsia wrote:Panzer why didn't you turn off the lights and lock the thread. You were the last out :V

Nobody told me to just do it