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NS Military Worldbuilding Thread No. 12

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Dtn
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Founded: Apr 05, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Dtn » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:36 am

United Earthlings wrote:[*]Until the bridges are constructed, to facilitate fast travel over both the river and the follow-on swampy marshland naval hovercraft and Airboats shipped in


These might be the worst possible choices for crossing a river.

New Vihenia wrote:So here's a thing. with the prevalence of drones, all shape and sizes.
What do you guys think on "AEW Drones" ? So basically instead of relying on large radar like usual AEW is. Instead, the manned element of the AEW controls some numbers of drones equipped with radars. Coordination is done via datalink. So the "drone controller" may still carry rotodome or just dome. But instead of radar it's a dedicated high speed datalinking antenna.


Keeping the transmitter on the plane and just putting a receiver on the drone seems better to me.
Last edited by Dtn on Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Gonswanza
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Postby Gonswanza » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:51 pm

Recalling earlier that drones alone don't really work, I just can't help but chuckle at this idea of an entirely automated navy and air force as proposed by one country in the "multiverse affairs" thread... Which I can only pass off as comedy or a gross attempt at trying to make a satirical drone program.

It just looks like a massive joke. I mean, the idea was sound until they asked for "millions of drones and drone units, armed to the teeth and capable of rapid deployment to replace the air force and navy."
Last edited by Gonswanza on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:56 pm

There is a problem with using unmanned forces alone, that is, in the battle between big powers, if the satellite is destroyed, the commander will lose his grasp of the battlefield situation of unmanned forces.The front-line commanders of manned forces can still command effectively in this situation.Especially now, all countries are strengthening the capability of electronic warfare. I don't think we can fully believe in the reliability of communication during the war, which is impossible happen in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan or in other Middle East regions because they can't interfere with their opponent's communication
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Gonswanza
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Postby Gonswanza » Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:09 am

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:There is a problem with using unmanned forces alone, that is, in the battle between big powers, if the satellite is destroyed, the commander will lose his grasp of the battlefield situation of unmanned forces.The front-line commanders of manned forces can still command effectively in this situation.Especially now, all countries are strengthening the capability of electronic warfare. I don't think we can fully believe in the reliability of communication during the war, which is impossible happen in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan or in other Middle East regions because they can't interfere with their opponent's communication


Indeed. Plus an EMP or killer satellites could especially hinder operations, along with some of the usual culprits like jammers and maybe even ECM.
Totally not another SEA nation, I swear...

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The Dolphin Isles
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Dolphin Isles » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:15 pm

Hello. I was hoping to run by this concept to see how unreal it might seem.

Basically, I was hoping to make the armed forces of my country a little extra unique, so I decided to make my marines into the army. Part of it is kind of a "what-if" where I considered how the US army did not really exist as a large, professional force for quite some time outside of major conflicts. In my country's history, a similar situation happened where the various minor polities of course had their own militias, but at the national level, the marine forces were the main force that was expanded during wartime at the national level.

It wouldn't be until about a century or two ago that the marines would be separated and made mostly autonomous from the navy similar to the USAF after WWII. However, the navy would never really recover its ability to have a ground force outside of guards.

The local militias would continue being a thing but pressures for centralization would coalesce them into a "guard" paramilitary/gendarmerie organization. This would further entrench these formations as a non-mainline land force.

So, what do you all think? I know it's a lot of organizational gymnastics, but I thought it would be a neat quirk to the origin of my land forces. Would this convoluted origin story go further beyond some friendly branch rivalry in your eyes? I always envisioned it would lead to a weaker land force in terms of funding and personnel but not much beyond that.

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Spirit of Hope
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:10 am

It's weird but not insane, really all you would r
get is an army with a different name and maybe some nautical traditions.
Fact Book.
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The Manticoran Empire
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Postby The Manticoran Empire » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:22 pm

The Dolphin Isles wrote:Hello. I was hoping to run by this concept to see how unreal it might seem.

Basically, I was hoping to make the armed forces of my country a little extra unique, so I decided to make my marines into the army. Part of it is kind of a "what-if" where I considered how the US army did not really exist as a large, professional force for quite some time outside of major conflicts. In my country's history, a similar situation happened where the various minor polities of course had their own militias, but at the national level, the marine forces were the main force that was expanded during wartime at the national level.

It wouldn't be until about a century or two ago that the marines would be separated and made mostly autonomous from the navy similar to the USAF after WWII. However, the navy would never really recover its ability to have a ground force outside of guards.

The local militias would continue being a thing but pressures for centralization would coalesce them into a "guard" paramilitary/gendarmerie organization. This would further entrench these formations as a non-mainline land force.

So, what do you all think? I know it's a lot of organizational gymnastics, but I thought it would be a neat quirk to the origin of my land forces. Would this convoluted origin story go further beyond some friendly branch rivalry in your eyes? I always envisioned it would lead to a weaker land force in terms of funding and personnel but not much beyond that.

Sounds like the Marines got their wish and grew up.
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Novsiveltz
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Founded: Sep 20, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Novsiveltz » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:27 pm

Military related. Anyone here subscribes to Binkov Battlegrounds? How does he find his research?

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Gonswanza
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Postby Gonswanza » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:29 pm

Novsiveltz wrote:Military related. Anyone here subscribes to Binkov Battlegrounds? How does he find his research?


I've seen a few vids, but I have no idea how he manages to dig up some obscure resources. Maybe Wikipedia (checking through sources/references) and duck duck go?
Totally not another SEA nation, I swear...

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The Manticoran Empire
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Postby The Manticoran Empire » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:51 pm

Novsiveltz wrote:Military related. Anyone here subscribes to Binkov Battlegrounds? How does he find his research?

Probably a combination of the Wikipedia bibliography and just random google searches. I have no idea.
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


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The Dolphin Isles
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Dolphin Isles » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:51 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:It's weird but not insane, really all you would r
get is an army with a different name and maybe some nautical traditions.


Yeah. I was trying to think of a good name other than "Marine Corps" and "People's Liberation Navy Army." Maybe I should look at more transliterations of other nations' marine forces.
I thought it would be a unique flair. It would maybe give more of an emphasis on amphibious and lightweight vehicles just out of the path dependence of being a former marine force. Of course, this wouldn't preclude mechanized forces, but maybe a lesser proportion (edit: and maybe the IFVs and APCs would be under the company or even battalion command instead of being directly integrated with the platoons/squads). Maybe a bigger emphasis on small unit tactics too? Maybe they'd be leaders on a "Regimental/Brigade Combat Team" system in my region while everyone is still doing divisions and corps.
Any thoughts on how this would affect the later formation of an Air Force? Would there possibly be yearning for an independent Naval Air Force?

The Manticoran Empire wrote:Sounds like the Marines got their wish and grew up.


Yeah. This sums it up pretty well. USMC but role reversal where they get to send their hand-me-downs to the "Guard" (!notArmy). Well, maybe more of a pre-2008 USMC...
Last edited by The Dolphin Isles on Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:34 pm

If you want to use it to justify a different unit organization you can, personally I think that a Marine force divorced from the naval service for that long probably would look almost exactly like a similar army minus some name changes.

Look at the USMC, it looks very similar to many a nations armies and it is still semi tied to the Navy.

As to an air force, I'd say that grows out of the Navy again. Or it is just founded from the beginning as independent.
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Dtn
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Dtn » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:50 pm

Here's a pretty good worked example:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=man ... /id=950950

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:11 pm

The Dolphin Isles wrote:Hello. I was hoping to run by this concept to see how unreal it might seem.

Basically, I was hoping to make the armed forces of my country a little extra unique, so I decided to make my marines into the army. Part of it is kind of a "what-if" where I considered how the US army did not really exist as a large, professional force for quite some time outside of major conflicts. In my country's history, a similar situation happened where the various minor polities of course had their own militias, but at the national level, the marine forces were the main force that was expanded during wartime at the national level.

It wouldn't be until about a century or two ago that the marines would be separated and made mostly autonomous from the navy similar to the USAF after WWII. However, the navy would never really recover its ability to have a ground force outside of guards.

The local militias would continue being a thing but pressures for centralization would coalesce them into a "guard" paramilitary/gendarmerie organization. This would further entrench these formations as a non-mainline land force.

So, what do you all think? I know it's a lot of organizational gymnastics, but I thought it would be a neat quirk to the origin of my land forces. Would this convoluted origin story go further beyond some friendly branch rivalry in your eyes? I always envisioned it would lead to a weaker land force in terms of funding and personnel but not much beyond that.


It doesn't make a lot of sense historically, considering even tribal islanders have "armies" before they have "navies" as all societies do, but it's one of those overly common NS tropes I guess.

Marines either exist as a separate corps or are just loaned units of the army. The latter is historically more effective in every regard. Doing the opposite would probably result in an army that loses every engagement or is carried entirely by allied proxy forces.

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The Dolphin Isles
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Postby The Dolphin Isles » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:44 pm

Gallia- wrote:
It doesn't make a lot of sense historically, considering even tribal islanders have "armies" before they have "navies" as all societies do, but it's one of those overly common NS tropes I guess.

Marines either exist as a separate corps or are just loaned units of the army. The latter is historically more effective in every regard. Doing the opposite would probably result in an army that loses every engagement or is carried entirely by allied proxy forces.


Right. I never imagined the Marines to have a historical precedent that far back. It was just a luck of the draw that when the governing body of the time decided to expand a force for war, they went with expanding the (mostly) volunteering Marines as opposed to raising the "Guard" which was home to more of the conscripted levies. Think if the US expanded the USMC instead of the Volunteer Army of the United States. Both were pretty awful since they were thrown up out of thin air but developed a lot over time.

Dtn wrote:Here's a pretty good worked example:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=man ... /id=950950

I appreciate this a lot!

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Gallia-
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:31 pm

The Dolphin Isles wrote:
Gallia- wrote:
It doesn't make a lot of sense historically, considering even tribal islanders have "armies" before they have "navies" as all societies do, but it's one of those overly common NS tropes I guess.

Marines either exist as a separate corps or are just loaned units of the army. The latter is historically more effective in every regard. Doing the opposite would probably result in an army that loses every engagement or is carried entirely by allied proxy forces.


Right. I never imagined the Marines to have a historical precedent that far back. It was just a luck of the draw that when the governing body of the time decided to expand a force for war, they went with expanding the (mostly) volunteering Marines as opposed to raising the "Guard" which was home to more of the conscripted levies. Think if the US expanded the USMC instead of the Volunteer Army of the United States. Both were pretty awful since they were thrown up out of thin air but developed a lot over time.


Naval policemen are historically not as good at fighting as a army of levied soldiers though.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:55 pm

So I'm bored, I know y'all're bored. Here's something maybe fun:
Omstark's make a mecha challenge ersumthing

Task: Make a mecha with a turret and armour and a honking big gun.

Requirements:
1. Be able to keep up with an M1 Abrams/M2 Bradley combined arms team
2. Immune to 115 mm 3BM28 AP and 3BK15M HEAT from the front at 1200 yards battle sight ranges.
3. Immune to 30 mm 3UBR6 APBC-T from the sides at 1200 yards battle sight ranges.
4. Immune to 12.7 mm 7N34 AP from the rear at any range.
5. Fitted for but not with Bomblettenschutz for the top.
6. Carries an autoloaded 120 mm L/55 Rheinmetall with stowage for 20 kills.
7. A 12.7 mm M2HB with 1000 rounds stowage.
8. A 7.62 mm HATO machine gun as coax with 4000 rounds stowage.
8. Crew of 3 (TC, gunner, driver)
9. Able to extricate itself without the aide of an ARV from a 1 meter deep bog.
10. And ofc: Has to have legs as humans commonly understands that concept.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Gonswanza
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gonswanza » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:41 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:So I'm bored, I know y'all're bored. Here's something maybe fun:
Omstark's make a mecha challenge ersumthing

Task: Make a mecha with a turret and armour and a honking big gun.

Requirements:
1. Be able to keep up with an M1 Abrams/M2 Bradley combined arms team
2. Immune to 115 mm 3BM28 AP and 3BK15M HEAT from the front at 1200 yards battle sight ranges.
3. Immune to 30 mm 3UBR6 APBC-T from the sides at 1200 yards battle sight ranges.
4. Immune to 12.7 mm 7N34 AP from the rear at any range.
5. Fitted for but not with Bomblettenschutz for the top.
6. Carries an autoloaded 120 mm L/55 Rheinmetall with stowage for 20 kills.
7. A 12.7 mm M2HB with 1000 rounds stowage.
8. A 7.62 mm HATO machine gun as coax with 4000 rounds stowage.
8. Crew of 3 (TC, gunner, driver)
9. Able to extricate itself without the aide of an ARV from a 1 meter deep bog.
10. And ofc: Has to have legs as humans commonly understands that concept.


I foresee this falling over repeatedly unless it has four or more legs, which would be a necessity in this case given what you're asking for. Also, 20 kills? Er, you meant rounds, right? Shells?
Totally not another SEA nation, I swear...

Praise our glorious president Laura Ortiz!

Amistad Declaration signatory! Down with slavery!

PLEASE /// OH GOD /// HELP /// There is no news /// Keep calm and carry on

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Gallia-
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Posts: 23582
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:01 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:So I'm bored, I know y'all're bored. Here's something maybe fun:
Omstark's make a mecha challenge ersumthing

Task: Make a mecha with a turret and armour and a honking big gun.

Requirements:
1. Be able to keep up with an M1 Abrams/M2 Bradley combined arms team
2. Immune to 115 mm 3BM28 AP and 3BK15M HEAT from the front at 1200 yards battle sight ranges.
3. Immune to 30 mm 3UBR6 APBC-T from the sides at 1200 yards battle sight ranges.
4. Immune to 12.7 mm 7N34 AP from the rear at any range.
5. Fitted for but not with Bomblettenschutz for the top.
6. Carries an autoloaded 120 mm L/55 Rheinmetall with stowage for 20 kills.
7. A 12.7 mm M2HB with 1000 rounds stowage.
8. A 7.62 mm HATO machine gun as coax with 4000 rounds stowage.
8. Crew of 3 (TC, gunner, driver)
9. Able to extricate itself without the aide of an ARV from a 1 meter deep bog.
10. And ofc: Has to have legs as humans commonly understands that concept.


Dope.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:13 pm

Some more from diskkord smh
Kat Tsun — Idag 03:00
>mech
[03:00]
>immune to 115mm
[03:00]
idk if you can put an M1 on legs

Gütinand der Fertige — Idag 03:03
very short legs
[03:03]
<.>
[03:03]
also i said it had to have legs
[03:04]
nothing stops you from putting tracks on the legs
[03:05]
besides immune to 115 is only on the most likely areas to be hit and I'm aiming for a very squat vehicle
[03:06]
"legs" and "legs" it's fine if you have like 4-8 rigid things that extend into the ground on tracked "feet"
[03:07]
what did I say once upon a time?
[03:07]
my conscious acceptance of traditionally laid out AFV's w/ full tracks won out over my subconscious desire for AT-AT's
So the ostmark!"Mecha" is actually a FanT powered tanq with full tracks
[03:07]
So I'm trying very hard to not just make this into another tank yet have it absorb as much from the last 100+ years of tanq development as possible (ändrad)
[03:10]
so it's gonna be pretty squat
[03:10]
probably have skirts covering the motive parts almost down to the ground


Gonswanza wrote:I foresee this falling over repeatedly unless it has four or more legs, which would be a necessity in this case given what you're asking for. Also, 20 kills? Er, you meant rounds, right? Shells?

have as many "legs"/extensions/whatever as you wish but at the end this thing should still keep up with an American combined arms unit. Use whatever tech available in 2021 y'all deem fit.
And oh yes I did mean stowed kills.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gonswanza
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Founded: Aug 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gonswanza » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:16 pm

>MT
>Mech

Pick one... Because I only see it happening in 2021 in a FanT nation.
Totally not another SEA nation, I swear...

Praise our glorious president Laura Ortiz!

Amistad Declaration signatory! Down with slavery!

PLEASE /// OH GOD /// HELP /// There is no news /// Keep calm and carry on

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17069
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Gonswanza wrote:>MT
>Mech

Pick one... Because I only see it happening in 2021 in a FanT nation.

I mean... this is a failure of imagination?

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Spirit of Hope
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Posts: 10120
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:31 pm

The Dolphin Isles wrote:
Dtn wrote:Here's a pretty good worked example:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=man ... /id=950950

I appreciate this a lot!


I'm highly confident he is being sarcastic there.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

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Dtn
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Posts: 170
Founded: Apr 05, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Dtn » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:32 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Some more from diskkord smh

my conscious acceptance of traditionally laid out AFV's w/ full tracks won out over my subconscious desire for AT-AT's
So the ostmark!"Mecha" is actually a FanT powered tanq with full tracks


when you combine magic and mecha and make them both bland

mecha should have axes, lasers, and rocket hooves plus a banging prog rock soundtrack

Image
Last edited by Dtn on Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Gonswanza
Diplomat
 
Posts: 515
Founded: Aug 13, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gonswanza » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:38 pm

Dtn wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Some more from diskkord smh

my conscious acceptance of traditionally laid out AFV's w/ full tracks won out over my subconscious desire for AT-AT's
So the ostmark!"Mecha" is actually a FanT powered tanq with full tracks


when you combine magic and mecha and make them both bland

mecha should have axes, lasers, and rocket hooves plus a banging prog rock soundtrack

Image

Okay that's pretty based.
Totally not another SEA nation, I swear...

Praise our glorious president Laura Ortiz!

Amistad Declaration signatory! Down with slavery!

PLEASE /// OH GOD /// HELP /// There is no news /// Keep calm and carry on

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