Argument Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[Otagia]

would BAE's "ADAPTIV" work in space?

"ADAPTIV works by using lightweight hexagonal pixels which are electrically powered by the vehicles systems. The pixels are individually heated and cooled using commercially available semi-conducting technology. The hand-sized pixels are made of metal, so that they can sustain physical impact and provide defence against enemy ordnance. The entire system has been designed with ease of use in mind, and the pixels are able to be easily and rapidly removed and replaced if damaged.

Once mounted on a vehicles hull or ballistic armour plates, ADAPTIV renders a vehicle invisible to infra-red and other surveillance technology"

No. If it's even remotely warm, it's visible in space.

[Azhuru]

I almost want one.

If it wasn't for the fact that my military is fucked already with swords, I might go with it. For now though I'll stick with tanks and walkers.

[Neo-Mekanta]

In before power armor wearing cyborg killbeasts with manipulator appendages and anti-tank weaponry. Make them intelligent and you have your whole army right there.

[Zebian Syndicate]

You would need hands to load it , that means a person has to walk with the beast, witch defeats the whole reason behind a swift moving mount that has a remote controlled weapon system and brain chip. Sitting on it like a mount wouldn't be any good because I assume your going with a system larger than modern day crew fed mortars in witch case your blocking a firing arc for the thing to shoot rendering the system ineffective and costing valuable engagement time because the rider needs to get off. Or hell lets go a step more and say the system can fire on the move due to stabilization systems specifically made for the unit, you wouldn't be able to with someone sitting on the back of your hypothetical creature.

Should have said something about that huh? Knew I forgot something.
Hrrrm,... ever hear of tank controls for FPS games? It's basically a 1-move 2-stop 3-aim 4-shot 5-reload if necessary 6-move if necessary.

Because brain chips are only so useful. The idea I had in mind was for the rider to dismount or even hop off and allow the creature to rest whilst they operated the mortar. And to be frank, anyone trying to fire a weapon like a mortar while moving deserves to die. I mean seriously. Back on track, one could possibly remove the mortar and have it already prepared to fire and simply needing to be set upright in the correct general direction. In the end, it would likely depend upon what tech was at one's disposal and how far they were willing to go with it.

[Otagia]

Hrrrm,... ever hear of tank controls for FPS games? It's basically a 1-move 2-stop 3-aim 4-shot 5-reload if necessary 6-move if necessary.

Tanks do not work like they do in FPS games, as I'm sure Thrashia will happily tell you. Step 2 rarely happens, and 1 through 6 might as well be combined into the same step.

The idea I had in mind was for the rider to dismount or even hop off and allow the creature to rest whilst they operated the mortar

If you're having to dismount, load the gun, fire it, remount, and run away, you're probably already dead from counter-battery fire.

[The Fedral Union]

In that case your using it as a pack animal and not a firing platform and anyone with sufficient technology can install a brain chip that does alot more than someone with basic knowledge of that sort of tech. You can use one or multiple to receive orders via up-link, here in comes the genetic part, modifying the brains of the said animal to interface with the chips/technological parts implanted. Also there are better weapons than mortars .. Like missile systems (see what mekenta mentioned) Missiles can be scaled nicely and carry a verity of warheads.

Lets assume you somehow outflank an enemy force without being detected and get in to firing position (by the way the higher profile you have the more you stand out.) you shoot off one of those things , suddenly EVERYONE and their mother will be on you like white on rice and any one with a more mobile system can quickly get a bead on you and shoot you up while your packing up to move. In short: See counter battery fire as Otagia mentioned tends to be bad for your health.

[Sennai]

Altered the big T-rex to a four legged triceratops thing. sicne it's the size of a bus that makes it better as a pack animal and gun platform.

[The Fedral Union]

Altered the big T-rex to a four legged triceratops thing. sicne it's the size of a bus that makes it better as a pack animal and gun platform.

I thought you were going for a smaller more mobile creature? Although there is no reason you cant have both...

[Otagia]

Altered the big T-rex to a four legged triceratops thing. sicne it's the size of a bus that makes it better as a pack animal and gun platform.

And still a few hundred times worse than a tank...

[Arkania 5]

Spontaneous mutation or Reactive Mutation?

[The Fedral Union]

Altered the big T-rex to a four legged triceratops thing. sicne it's the size of a bus that makes it better as a pack animal and gun platform.

And still a few hundred times worse than a tank...

I honestly think these things would be better off being smaller, quicker and more mobile like infantry + able to use ATGM's/MPADs to strike at armor but generally meant to be more mobile than your bog standard infantry units. (I'd add some metal spikes on your tail and augment the jaw to be able to chew through at least some light armor.)

I'd have the weapons interchangeable with anti personnel weapons and anti armor or air missiles remember though you also have ammo to account for. Ammo will have to be stored on either side of the being and auto-fed to your weapon systems. Or if you use a laser no such devices needed, just a simple lens system with a high capacity energy cell or (insert what ever you use here). Problem with a laser or DEW is you need to be LOS for engagements while the former can also be NLOS

Tanks and other armored units are built the way they are for a reason. To efficiently utilize a-lot of their space for ammo storage, armor , sensor systems and engines , they also tend to have good clear firing arcs for their gun/ missiles/ what ever other weapons you mount.

[Zebian Syndicate]

And still a few hundred times worse than a tank...

Tanks do not work like they do in FPS games, as I'm sure Thrashia will happily tell you. Step 2 rarely happens, and 1 through 6 might as well be combined into the same step.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnd point totally missed.

Tanks are out of the question currently, so all that fancy stuff is unavailable. I'm just working the hand dealt.

If you're having to dismount, load the gun, fire it, remount, and run away, you're probably already dead from counter-battery fire.

You know, it's actually pretty hard to pin down mobile arty systems.
By the time the first shell has hit the target, a whole bunch are almost assuredly already in the air (unless the tech you're employing sucks) Then that target has to get over the initial shock, figure out what the hell is going on, get to what ever magical machine they have for finding enemy arty, actually use it (and I can guarantee it's not going to be instantaneous or perfectly accurate) call it in, prepare their own arty, aim and fire, then hope they get some hits a couple minutes later when their shells reach the target.
That's a lot of time. And the attackers don't have to lay siege. That's the whole point of being mobile. Get in, someone's shit up, and get out before they can do anything about it.

Compare all that to the attackers having to just ride in, jump off and set up temporary shop and start firing. None of that will be easily noticed, and only when they start firing is there any logical chance to be detected. But we're gonna use a firing squad of about twenty. So that's twenty shells up and arcing, and the guys are already packing up to move out. If the target is lucky, their own counter fire will be up in the air and en route by the time the attackers are almost finished packing it up.

In that case your using it as a pack animal and not a firing platform and anyone with sufficient technology can install a brain chip that does alot more than someone with basic knowledge of that sort of tech. You can use one or multiple to receive orders via up-link, here in comes the genetic part, modifying the brains of the said animal to interface with the chips/technological parts implanted. Also there are better weapons than mortars .. Like missile systems (see what mekenta mentioned) Missiles can be scaled nicely and carry a verity of warheads.

Still not exactly sure what you can accomplish with the brain chip when the beast of burden in question likely can't operate the equipment and anything you do to fix it, and you might as well make a drone. But that does open some interesting ideas,...
And I like the missile thing. Infinitely better than mortars, but lack the same satisfaction.

[Sennai]

The guys ive got have three sort of ground creatures and a single air one

Tr'liped's: those being the slightly larger than a horse two legged raptor like things

Steg's: the now revised six legged squat muscular pickup-flatbed truck (that is, small truck, not articulated truck which is the big 18 wheelers) sized mortar/autocannon turret carriers 9might take missiles too.)

and Armoe-rex's the larger pack animal/mobile fortress if needed creatures.
in the sky i just ripped off the Ikran from avatar, those things are birdie and munchie enough for what i had in mind for these guys, who are in apperance Nightelves/drow and use kroot like weaponry (along with plenty more "modern" stuff taken off my nation. not including grenade's, stick charges, satchel bomb's, AT rifles and launchers or their own rip off imperial guard hunting lances)

[Terraius]

Calvary is 100% feasible. Its called helicopters. They were designed to perform and do exactly what a horse does. Carry men and supplies into battle and beyond.

Although I cant say I recall any instances of pre-modern calvary having machineguns or rocketpods straped around them, call it a modern touch.

[Imperati]

That actually would be beautiful.

If you had a bunch of highly mobile lizards in forest conditions running around with Anti-Air platforms. You'd be able to strike anything flying overhead and then disappear into the woods. That would be brilliant if they were just four legged monstrosities, think like giant iguanas that can actually carry a light recoilless rifle or some light anti-air packages. They go out for like a week, potshotting whatever they can working like lancers and hussars striking at the weak points then running off before you can hit back, then resupply and repeat it all over again. They could eat the people they kill so you fed em, you'd just need to watch out for the ammo supplies. But only set to hit like, two-three trucks or tanks then run off and resupply.
Its like super mobile insurgents!

[Zebian Syndicate]

I suggest giving the small one automatic weapons and/or anti personnel weapons. Perferably it should be equipped with weaponry with minimal recoil, maybe stereotypical laser weapons?

As for the big one, it sounds like an upscale version of the medium one.

And I suggest the same load out as the light one for the flying one. (Bird=Nation's standard Fighter?)

[Otagia]

Tanks are out of the question currently, so all that fancy stuff is unavailable. I'm just working the hand dealt.

If you can strap guns and force fields to a cow, you can probably manage an internal combustion engine.

You know, it's actually pretty hard to pin down mobile arty systems.
By the time the first shell has hit the target, a whole bunch are almost assuredly already in the air (unless the tech you're employing sucks) Then that target has to get over the initial shock, figure out what the hell is going on, get to what ever magical machine they have for finding enemy arty, actually use it (and I can guarantee it's not going to be instantaneous or perfectly accurate) call it in, prepare their own arty, aim and fire, then hope they get some hits a couple minutes later when their shells reach the target.

Not nearly that hard, as humanity has discovered the wonderful magic of radar. Even modern artillery doctrine calls for guns to get in position, fire a quick barrage, and high tail it out of there as fast as humanly possible, as the first round fired will be spotted by counter-battery radar the moment it leaves the tube. An MRLS or self propelled gun can scoot as soon as the last round is fired. With cattle-mounted artillery, you need to pack up the gun, secure yourself to whatever passes for a saddle on the thing, and then start running away at a snail's pace.

[Zebian Syndicate]

If you can strap guns and force fields to a cow, you can probably manage an internal combustion engine.

Did you not listen?

Not nearly that hard, as humanity has discovered the wonderful magic of radar. Even modern artillery doctrine calls for guns to get in position, fire a quick barrage, and high tail it out of there as fast as humanly possible, as the first round fired will be spotted by counter-battery radar the moment it leaves the tube. An MRLS or self propelled gun can scoot as soon as the last round is fired. With cattle-mounted artillery, you need to pack up the gun, secure yourself to whatever passes for a saddle on the thing, and then start running away at a snail's pace.

Admitted, I had not known that. But there are still the issues of getting your own counter arty ready (if not already) into position, prepped and firing.
And one shot/move before the counter shells come down is exactly what I'm suggesting.

[Serpenta (Ancient)]

Does anyone here know Freespace? If so, how effective do you think the technology would be against some other FT nations?

[Vernii]

By the time the first shell has hit the target, a whole bunch are almost assuredly already in the air (unless the tech you're employing sucks) Then that target has to get over the initial shock, figure out what the hell is going on, get to what ever magical machine they have for finding enemy arty, actually use it (and I can guarantee it's not going to be instantaneous or perfectly accurate) call it in, prepare their own arty, aim and fire, then hope they get some hits a couple minutes later when their shells reach the target.

That's a lot of time. And the attackers don't have to lay siege. That's the whole point of being mobile. Get in, someone's shit up, and get out before they can do anything about it.

Compare all that to the attackers having to just ride in, jump off and set up temporary shop and start firing. None of that will be easily noticed, and only when they start firing is there any logical chance to be detected. But we're gonna use a firing squad of about twenty. So that's twenty shells up and arcing, and the guys are already packing up to move out. If the target is lucky, their own counter fire will be up in the air and en route by the time the attackers are almost finished packing it up.

You seem to be assuming that you're fighting 19th century armies. The 'magical machine' you refer to is called a radar, and any competent modern tech army will have them networked with something like the US army's C-RAMs.

This is with technology existing today. In FT, you'll probably be dealing with a lot more than just that.

[Terraius]

That actually would be beautiful.

If you had a bunch of highly mobile lizards in forest conditions running around with Anti-Air platforms. You'd be able to strike anything flying overhead and then disappear into the woods. That would be brilliant if they were just four legged monstrosities, think like giant iguanas that can actually carry a light recoilless rifle or some light anti-air packages. They go out for like a week, potshotting whatever they can working like lancers and hussars striking at the weak points then running off before you can hit back, then resupply and repeat it all over again. They could eat the people they kill so you fed em, you'd just need to watch out for the ammo supplies. But only set to hit like, two-three trucks or tanks then run off and resupply.
Its like super mobile insurgents!

My ideas.. they have created a monster!

[Risen Britannia]

reading all this about creatures in war, all i can think of is "nuke it from orbit"

[The Fedral Union]

Zeb your assuming your enemies would be idiots, I don't know about anyone else but my commanders wouldn't be stupid enough expose their artillery or mechanized units where the enemy can shell them easily. (This includes a loose formation around terrain that can hide such things) and even assuming you managed to toast one unit without a UAV or orbital scan picking you up or on board scanner systems. (I would assume by FT they would have advanced sensor systems standard with these things. ) No commander is going to deploy just one system or cluster them where you can easily frag em. That being said anything remotely in the direction your shooting form is going to be turned in a blackened smoking crater by copious amounts of shelling and missiles. Even most PA would have an integrated battle-scape with multiple sources of data theirs no reason vehicles wont have that either.

So it would behoove anyone to deploy these wisely and make them as mobile as possible, that means you shouldn't use mortars offensively because missile systems will do the job ten if not hundreds of times better and you can shoot them from behind hills and most Man portable systems today eliminate the IR flash from the launcher by firing the missile out with compressed air a reasonable distance before its motor ignites giving more than enough time for the missile launcher wielding creature to haul ass out of there.

[Terraius]

reading all this talk about creatures in war, all i can think of is "nuke it from orbit"

Funnily enough thats peoples answers to pretty much everything, notwithholding Battlelizards.

[Otagia]

If you can strap guns and force fields to a cow, you can probably manage an internal combustion engine.

Did you not listen?

Considering that you haven't actually explained why they're out of the question, no. And given previous posts have described a lizard-cow with force fields and a mortar duct taped to it, there's no reason that you shouldn't be able to field some sort of sensible vehicle.

Admitted, I had not known that. But there are still the issues of getting your own counter arty ready (if not already) into position, prepped and firing.
And one shot/move before the counter shells come down is exactly what I'm suggesting.

The point of counter-battery artillery is that it's already in place. Leap-frog tubes for constant coverage, and you'll be lucky to get thirty seconds before the shells start raining down on you. And given that this is FT, you'll be obscenely lucky if they aren't smart and/or of the kiloton variety. With a vehicle, there's a chance to outrun that by flooring it the moment you've fired. When you've got a slow moving reptile with a brain the size of a pea, you're going to be eating self-guided shells with semi-sentient cluster munitions.