Argument Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[Tannelorn]

/balrogga I couldnt agree with you more. I do logistics, in fact as stated before, I dont just rp with the intent to cut off your supply lines and comms, I have hordes of ships to do it. As I said, my good ships are really..really good and supported by average to crappy ships. Generally anything called a battle cruiser or dreadnought is very HQ, anything called a escort or light cruiser is not so good. Basic cruisers straddle the line [aside from the sword class knight cruiser] and are rather average. Soon I will have only two qualities.

Really damn good, and slightly below average bio-mech drone ships. The ratio though will be like 5 to one crappy to good ships. Eg 1500 Bio mech ships, with 200 non bio mech elite division ships will make up the Zentreadi Imperial fleet. The border guard will be made up of another three hundred good ships and five hundred bio mechs [ a specially designed picket ship, long duration cruiser]. Home guard will be made up of about 100 good ships and about three hundred bio-mechs.

As for powergaming in FT, well that is why FT almost fell apart, you CANNOT win nationstates. You can work together with your friends to have fun and interesting RP's, and anyone who tries to pull powergaming stunts in RP's [as in saying you will do one thing in the story, getting them to set it up for you, then pulling a fast one to "win"] Or agreeing to something OOC in say IRC, then lying and pulling a fast one. If someone does that, then its generally best assumed to fire the Ignore cannon.

For instance, as a villain when i play I will let the other players know what I am up to, what I am getting out of it then what they want out of it. Once its agreed upon its set in stone, only changes will be to make the Story, and thus the RP much cooler, and i will notify others. Thats how you make successful threads. Every succesful thread I have been in has been done that way. Scheming and power grabbing doesn't make a good story.

[Sskiss]

This may sound like a silly question, but what does exactly one mean by 'Powergaming'?

[Tannelorn]

in reference to allanea. Basically you try to back room deal and all sorts of things to bring people on your side, and tend to do alot of ooc work. Really power gaming looks a lot like metagaming at times. Its a big big part of competitive RP. Well at least as I see [and have seen] it.

Note, not accusing allanea of wanting to lie or anything, just mentioning that power gaming often leads to very nasty ooc. Sometimes it doesnt, but most of the big alliance wars fell to it in the past.

[Arthropoda Ingens]

This may sound like a silly question, but what does exactly one mean by 'Powergaming'?

This.

Except played straight.

[Sskiss]

Okay... These are good answers. Tannelorn, you are correct in that in the old days there was a great deal of bickering assorted skulduggery and the like due to, in part at least, to this power gaming. I guess the best defence against it is a simple ignore.

[Balrogga]

The difference is if the skullduggery is in character and arranged between players. There have been players who used OOC bickering and OOC manipulations to ICly form and keep alliances/powerbases. I will not state any names but this was metagaming indeed.

[Of The Arch ilands]

The difference is if the skullduggery is in character and arranged between players. There have been players who used OOC bickering and OOC manipulations to ICly form and keep alliances/powerbases. I will not state any names but this was metagaming indeed.

Damn Those Meta Gamers! -shakes fist at the air-

On another Note! How effective would M*A*S*H (mobile army surgical hospitals) Units be in an FT ground action war? (also yes they come with the civie doctors that like to drink gin and whine about death and war)

[Thrashia]

On another Note! How effective would M*A*S*H (mobile army surgical hospitals) Units be in an FT ground action war? (also yes they come with the civie doctors that like to drink gin and whine about death and war)

Highly effective to the story imho. I don't recall them ever losing patients any more or less than a military field hospital unit, so why not? Would be humorous. Especially if they got overrun and captured. The antics would never, ever end...

[Auman]

Power gaming, or how I interpret it, is when a player intentionally involves himself in plots and intrigues with the intent to become a god damn mega power. You are playing to win because you are playing as a balls-to-the-wall powerhouse that is going to bring to heel every nation they can. The brick and mortar of Empires is made of the bones and blood of their enemies. When I have the time and energy to devote to the game, I typically play in such a fashion... Because it's fun as fuck and if it's done right, provides a legitimate enemy for the rest of the gang to try and foil.

[Balrogga]

I would like to state there is a vast difference between Powergaming and Metagaming. Technically anyone joining an alliance could be considered as Powergaming because they are trying to set themselves up as more powerful than themselves alone which is the basic idea behind RPing a nation.

The difference is when people use other means other than IC to set up their powerbase. That is where they cross the line into Metagaming.

[Tannelorn]

Yes, which is why powergaming often turns in to metagaming. Admittedly I am going after being an eval empire of doom right now, however I would prefer to do it entirely cooperatively. If that is still power gaming, then it must be power gaming lite. I see power gaming as trying to hide things IC and outmaneuver each other, with both IC and ooc deals. Often these are ooc deals that are loosely translated in to the IC. This in turn leads to skimming metagaming.

[Of The Arch ilands]

Yes, which is why powergaming often turns in to metagaming. Admittedly I am going after being an eval empire of doom right now, however I would prefer to do it entirely cooperatively. If that is still power gaming, then it must be power gaming lite. I see power gaming as trying to hide things IC and outmaneuver each other, with both IC and ooc deals. Often these are ooc deals that are loosely translated in to the IC. This in turn leads to skimming metagaming.

Personally as I see it aslong as the other has agreed upon it its Aye okay!

[Xenohumanity]

On another Note! How effective would M*A*S*H (mobile army surgical hospitals) Units be in an FT ground action war? (also yes they come with the civie doctors that like to drink gin and whine about death and war)

I love those things. Field Medics are such great guys. Great character RP fuel, good for cutting losses in combat, and it shows you actually care about your guys in the field as guys, not numbers.

[Auman]

On another Note! How effective would M*A*S*H (mobile army surgical hospitals) Units be in an FT ground action war? (also yes they come with the civie doctors that like to drink gin and whine about death and war)

I love those things. Field Medics are such great guys. Great character RP fuel, good for cutting losses in combat, and it shows you actually care about your guys in the field as guys, not numbers.

Doesn't matter if it's 2250 BC or 2250 AD, wounded soldiers need bone-setters.

[Allanea]

This may sound like a silly question, but what does exactly one mean by 'Powergaming'?

I use the term to mean a process by which one acts in such a way as to achieve greater political prominence/trade/wealth/power etc. for his nation or character. As stated above this can lead to OOC problems if players are not cooperative (but then so can roleplaying-for-pure plot - I've seen people throw fits because oh-god-you-are-ruining-my-beautiful-plans-for-this-thread).

For many years, for example, it was an explicit national goal for Allanea to secure as much physical territory as possible, in the form of planets, or land on planets, or even parts of superstructures (I own bits of the old Omeldor-1 station I bought from someone or other). I've both had fun with it as a powergaming aspect and a plot motor - but of course now Allanea has so much land we don't really need any more. [we do take gifts]

[Saurisisia]

Here's something I've been wondering a while: what type of projectiles would FT tanks fire? Is it plasma, energy bolts of some sort, or just kinetic rounds?

[The Fedral Union]

Here's something I've been wondering a while: what type of projectiles would FT tanks fire? Is it plasma, energy bolts of some sort, or just kinetic rounds?

What ever you want. But I suggest using projectiles for one simple reason, what can arrows do that lasers cant? Shoot over things, you want NLOS ability with armor so you'd want a KE gun.

A hypersonic rail gun or coil gun should be fine. Also you should to have a secondary beam weapon or bolt weapon or just a normal .50 cal.

Frankly main guns on tanks don't have to be that massive if they move projectiles at high speeds, use solid DU slugs hit them fast enough hard enough and they will be like HEAT/SABOT rounds spitting in to the tank and hurting crew/blowing it up.

[Saurisisia]

Here's something I've been wondering a while: what type of projectiles would FT tanks fire? Is it plasma, energy bolts of some sort, or just kinetic rounds?

What ever you want. But I suggest using projectiles for one simple reason, what can arrows do that lasers cant? Shoot over things, you want NLOS ability with armor so you'd want a KE gun.

A hypersonic rail gun or coil gun should be fine. Also you should to have a secondary beam weapon or bolt weapon or just a normal .50 cal.

Ah, okay, thanks for the clarification!

[Sskiss]

It would seem to me that the way things are set up in the galaxy (assuming the Milky Way) would make achieving 'super power' status difficult at the very least. On Earth, their appears to never been more than one or two at a time. Usually, it was various 'powers' struggling for supremacy and global domination of markets, resources and land or a combination of these.

On NS/FT their are a fairly large number of powers, but super powers? Maybe, haven't seen any in quite a while though. And even if there were, they couldn't be too greedy as it were, lest a number of powers decide to gang up on the troublemaker. Regarding the galaxy, the way I see it is that the most prized resource would be life bearing worlds - they are worth fighting over and holding. Resources would not be a great concern, as such would be super abundant and fairly easy to exploit even to a newly emerging FT civilizations.

As for 'power gaming' I think its all right if everyone concerned is willing.

[Sskiss]

Here's something I've been wondering a while: what type of projectiles would FT tanks fire? Is it plasma, energy bolts of some sort, or just kinetic rounds?

Sskiss 'tanks' utilize anti-gravitic propulsion. Weapons are two disintergrators 'skeleton' projectors and one heat ray. Six autonomous probes are also used for attack, targeting and scouting.

[Saurisisia]

Here's something I've been wondering a while: what type of projectiles would FT tanks fire? Is it plasma, energy bolts of some sort, or just kinetic rounds?

Sskiss 'tanks' utilize anti-gravitic propulsion. Weapons are two disintergrators 'skeleton' projectors and one heat ray. Six autonomous probes are also used for attack, targeting and scouting.

Really? Interesting concept.

[Sskiss]

Sskiss 'tanks' utilize anti-gravitic propulsion. Weapons are two disintergrators 'skeleton' projectors and one heat ray. Six autonomous probes are also used for attack, targeting and scouting.

Really? Interesting concept.

Well, if true, its an old concept! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oVUwG0q ... ll&list=WL

[Saurisisia]

Really? Interesting concept.

Well, if true, its an old concept! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oVUwG0q ... ll&list=WL

*Watches vid*
Ah, so they're hovercraft or at least hovertanks! Hm, would be interesting to watch those babies at work on the battlefield.

[The Fedral Union]

Our tanks require them to have the ability to fire over hills, trench lines , force fields like arty can, a ray gun is all fine and good and hovering is ok. But they're complex to maintain. Both have their pros and cons.

Treads are simple and can be swapped out on the field, coil guns don't need lenses or mirrors that can crack or melt. And depending on the shell you can get almost any type of explosion you want.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean its logical too do it.

If your people have something they know how to do and do well that still works, stick with it. Not that I'm advocating stagnate tech

As for the super power thing.

YMMV on who you ask and who you know.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

The closest the Russian Empire comes to 'tanks' are its horse artillery, basically light cannons mounted on powered armor. They fire solid projectiles, mostly, either slugs or canister shot.

Having a giant shotgun capable of leveling a city block is a useful thing to have in urban warfare.