Advice Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[New Amerik]

On a sidenote, am I the only FT person who has a presence on Earth without claiming the entire planet if not the entire solar system?

Nope. I still RP it like it is now: with a crapton of individual nations fighting with each other.

Indeed, I as well. I even have a world map in the factbook that will eventually list all the various nations on the Amerikverse Earth...turns out it's a LOT easier to make them all consolidated into power blocs than actually figure out individual countries (what if Africa was just one nation, why not), but I'mma try anyways.

As far as races and species goes, I actually find that dividing a species into different 'races' in terms of physical appearance, even if it doesn't make them any more different from each other, actually kinda can help sometimes in fleshing them out. After all, it is somewhat presumptuous to assume that just because they're an entirely different species, there won't be infighting amongst themselves and even what we would consider racism based on their own inbuilt genetic diversity.

Or, in a broader sense, humans fight and seperate themselves into different groups based on a variety of reasons, some of them physical. It'd certainly be possible for other species to seperate themselves into different groups based on physical differences from other members of their species, especially if they developed along the same kind of pack mentality humanity did.

[Yes Im Biop]

O wow we killed it.

Anyway, Just how far could you shoot a 200mm Railgun slug from land based platform and hit with any degree of accuracy?

[Feazanthia]

There are so many variables that would determine your answer it makes my head spin.

[Yes Im Biop]

There are so many variables that would determine your answer it makes my head spin.

Trying to revive this somewhat, In a Perfect Vacum and Normal Gravity?

[Vocenae]

Just let it die.

[Avenio]

Just let it die.

And you should give yourself a pat on the back, Biop, because you and certain others have single-handedly bludgeoned it over the head with a shovel and tossed it in a ditch.

And now you're trying to drag it out of its ignoble resting place and use its corpse as a puppet for your own amusement? For shame.

[Yes Im Biop]

Just let it die.

And you should give yourself a pat on the back, Biop, because you and certain others have single-handedly bludgeoned it over the head with a shovel and tossed it in a ditch.

And now you're trying to drag it out of its ignoble resting place and use its corpse as a puppet for your own amusement? For shame.

Well if that's the case time to start a new one.

[Vocenae]

You missed his point entirely, and there's no goddamned need to start a new one. Even if there was, you'd just spam that one to hell and back and ruin it like you've ruined this thread.

[Yes Im Biop]

You missed his point entirely, and there's no goddamned need to start a new one. Even if there was, you'd just spam that one to hell and back and ruin it like you've ruined this thread.

Probably the friendly reception that killed it.

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

You missed his point entirely, and there's no goddamned need to start a new one. Even if there was, you'd just spam that one to hell and back and ruin it like you've ruined this thread.

Probably the friendly reception that killed it.

???

[Kreanoltha]

Probably the friendly reception that killed it.

???

Stupid remark attempting to be clever is stupid. Give it no more thought.

[YellowApple]

On a dubiously-positive note, everyone's unanimous disdain for Biop has resurrected the thread.

Anyway, I'm working on a robotic spacefaring puppet (Dei ex Machina, ICly self-referenced as "Sancti Machina Imperii") that discovered religion and is killing all organics, perceiving them all to be sinners. My question involves what to do with organics when they're encountered; would going Borg-style (or Husk-style if you're a Mass Effect fan) be worthwhile, or should they just be exterminated?

I imagine that converting organic victims to cyborg-like drones would provide effective labor, but my concern is that the materials cost of phasing out failing organic parts for mechanical ones would be more expensive than simply constructing a new purely-robotic drone. Assuming that the robots are simply mind-wiping their organic victims (so as to prevent future "sin"), are there any cost-related justifications to actually reusing the organics instead of disintegrating them?

[Spirit of Hope]

On a dubiously-positive note, everyone's unanimous disdain for Biop has resurrected the thread.

Anyway, I'm working on a robotic spacefaring puppet (Dei ex Machina, ICly self-referenced as "Sancti Machina Imperii") that discovered religion and is killing all organics, perceiving them all to be sinners. My question involves what to do with organics when they're encountered; would going Borg-style (or Husk-style if you're a Mass Effect fan) be worthwhile, or should they just be exterminated?

I imagine that converting organic victims to cyborg-like drones would provide effective labor, but my concern is that the materials cost of phasing out failing organic parts for mechanical ones would be more expensive than simply constructing a new purely-robotic drone. Assuming that the robots are simply mind-wiping their organic victims (so as to prevent future "sin"), are there any cost-related justifications to actually reusing the organics instead of disintegrating them?

I doubt it. Unless you can selectively edit the mind/memories your going to wipe out motor skills and other things organics need to operate. Likely it would just be best to destroy all organics on sight and then harvest whatever is left for any organic material and any other usable materials that the organics might have.

[Vernii]

On a dubiously-positive note, everyone's unanimous disdain for Biop has resurrected the thread.

Anyway, I'm working on a robotic spacefaring puppet (Dei ex Machina, ICly self-referenced as "Sancti Machina Imperii") that discovered religion and is killing all organics, perceiving them all to be sinners. My question involves what to do with organics when they're encountered; would going Borg-style (or Husk-style if you're a Mass Effect fan) be worthwhile, or should they just be exterminated?

I imagine that converting organic victims to cyborg-like drones would provide effective labor, but my concern is that the materials cost of phasing out failing organic parts for mechanical ones would be more expensive than simply constructing a new purely-robotic drone. Assuming that the robots are simply mind-wiping their organic victims (so as to prevent future "sin"), are there any cost-related justifications to actually reusing the organics instead of disintegrating them?

Approaching it from that perspective, the only (dubious) justification for capturing organics would be to recycle them for their constituent materials (water, carbon, iron), etc. Even that would be easier done after just nerve gassing the shit out of population centers and then collecting the dead, and easier still would be just gaining the elements from comets and asteroids.

On another note, that species might make a decent opponent for my Inhibitor puppet at some point, potentially.

EDIT: Ack, beaten. Personally, I consider the whole Terminator style hatred of organic life to be a rather overused trope. The idea of religious machines is an interesting one, but it's being tacked onto something that's been rehashed over and over.

[YellowApple]

I doubt it. Unless you can selectively edit the mind/memories your going to wipe out motor skills and other things organics need to operate. Likely it would just be best to destroy all organics on sight and then harvest whatever is left for any organic material and any other usable materials that the organics might have.

Considering that the machines in question are already programmed to have at least acceptable motor skills, I don't think overwriting that aspect of the mind would be a problem. Harvesting the resources directly is an interesting thought, and I'll probably apply that regardless.

Approaching it from that perspective, the only (dubious) justification for capturing organics would be to recycle them for their constituent materials (water, carbon, iron), etc. Even that would be easier done after just nerve gassing the shit out of population centers and then collecting the dead, and easier still would be just gaining the elements from comets and asteroids.

On another note, that species might make a decent opponent for my Inhibitor puppet at some point, potentially.

EDIT: Ack, beaten. Personally, I consider the whole Terminator style hatred of organic life to be a rather overused trope. The idea of religious machines is an interesting one, but it's being tacked onto something that's been rehashed over and over.

Nerve gassing is a good idea. I'll definitely throw that in, since that'll make harvesting easier (be it for body hijacking or molecular recycling).

Another component that I just envisioned would be whether or not outright killing would be regarded as sin and therefore forbidden unless strictly necessary. I suppose it depends upon theological interpretation, but that might be sufficient IC justification. Unfortunately, that would also beg the question of whether erasing one's mind completely and replacing it with robot programming constitutes "killing"...

[OMGeverynameistaken]

IIRC, the reason the Borg assimilate people is because they then gain access to traits, knowledge and/or genetic information they consider worthwhile. That's why the Borg sometimes ignore species as being 'unworthy' of assimilation.

As to mind wiping, it would probably be more practical to simply drug them into a highly suggestible state (or simply to the point where integrated machine bits do all of the moving, while the conscious mind is kept under. Eventually the inbuilt machines could figure out which bits of the brain were responsible for personality and memory and so forth and 'delete' them in some fashion. This also creates an interesting weakness if one can cut off the supply of drugs prior to full 'integration'.

Alternatively, the goal of the machines could be to seize organics and forcibly upload their minds into some sort of hivemind or other form of machine state (as per their religious motivations to bring 'salvation' to the galaxy.) This would give you reason to capture large numbers of civilians, although presumably great care would be taken not to kill them until they had been properly saved, at which point the organic bits could be discarded (regardless of whether or not the uploading process is just copying or an actual transfer.)

[Trailers]

Depends. Is your AI going to be trying to 'convert' organics, or read them a litany of their sins? Or does it feel justified in just smacking the organics in question with a high velocity space rock?

[Feazanthia]

IIRC, the reason the Borg assimilate people is because they then gain access to traits, knowledge and/or genetic information they consider worthwhile. That's why the Borg sometimes ignore species as being 'unworthy' of assimilation.

That is from Voyager, and thus does not count because Voyager was terrible. *sagenod*

Originally, the Borg assimilated all sentient life in order to help move them and themselves towards the Borg's ideal of 'perfection'. The Collective considered itself incredibly altruistic.

[Valinon]

Of course, the manifestation of this perfection was Alice Krige. That's not insubstantial evidence that the Collective's idea of perfection--as well as the prime design of its altruism--may be skewed in some significant, problematic ways. The statement regarding Voyage is wholly accurate, though.

[The Ben Boys]

O wow we killed it.

Anyway, Just how far could you shoot a 200mm Railgun slug from land based platform and hit with any degree of accuracy?

If you calculate speed of both the planet and round well enough (which is possible today by walking into a Calculus classroom), then theoretically as far as there are no objects to interfere, as it's in the vacuum of space I assume. However, the longer range the longer said defenses have time to react, and a railround can be knocked off course easily enough by a nuke or something of that effect.

[Strykla]

On a dubiously-positive note, everyone's unanimous disdain for Biop has resurrected the thread.

Anyway, I'm working on a robotic spacefaring puppet (Dei ex Machina, ICly self-referenced as "Sancti Machina Imperii") that discovered religion and is killing all organics, perceiving them all to be sinners. My question involves what to do with organics when they're encountered; would going Borg-style (or Husk-style if you're a Mass Effect fan) be worthwhile, or should they just be exterminated?

I imagine that converting organic victims to cyborg-like drones would provide effective labor, but my concern is that the materials cost of phasing out failing organic parts for mechanical ones would be more expensive than simply constructing a new purely-robotic drone. Assuming that the robots are simply mind-wiping their organic victims (so as to prevent future "sin"), are there any cost-related justifications to actually reusing the organics instead of disintegrating them?

Well, just modify the brain. Take out all that extra mumbo-sentient-jumbo. An idea I stumbled across when reading the excellent hard sci-fi novel Blindsight:

SENTIENCE SUCKS!

We waste a stunning amount of energy on such superfluous things like art. Nonsentience is preferable to sentience because, ironically, just surviving is a more effective way of living than thriving.

And because the brain is far more elastic than one might be led to assume, cutting out swaths of it would not necessarily lead to death. Essentially, lobotomizing them might work.

[YellowApple]

Depends. Is your AI going to be trying to 'convert' organics, or read them a litany of their sins? Or does it feel justified in just smacking the organics in question with a high velocity space rock?

If I go with the "wipe mind and hijack body" idea, then yes, "conversion" would be the goal. Otherwise (if this ends up being too impractical or if the species in question is too difficult to mind-wipe), high velocity space rock would probably be justified if they don't voluntarily give up their "sins" as a species.

IIRC, the reason the Borg assimilate people is because they then gain access to traits, knowledge and/or genetic information they consider worthwhile. That's why the Borg sometimes ignore species as being 'unworthy' of assimilation.

As to mind wiping, it would probably be more practical to simply drug them into a highly suggestible state (or simply to the point where integrated machine bits do all of the moving, while the conscious mind is kept under. Eventually the inbuilt machines could figure out which bits of the brain were responsible for personality and memory and so forth and 'delete' them in some fashion. This also creates an interesting weakness if one can cut off the supply of drugs prior to full 'integration'.

Alternatively, the goal of the machines could be to seize organics and forcibly upload their minds into some sort of hivemind or other form of machine state (as per their religious motivations to bring 'salvation' to the galaxy.) This would give you reason to capture large numbers of civilians, although presumably great care would be taken not to kill them until they had been properly saved, at which point the organic bits could be discarded (regardless of whether or not the uploading process is just copying or an actual transfer.)

The point of the mind-wiping is to make sure that they don't return to "sin", since (at least as far as the robots are aware) organics are "imperfectly programmed" and therefore susceptible to it. So, simple drugging probably wouldn't be effective, since it leaves the risk of the victim coming out of the trance. However, the use of drugs to actually perform the mind wipe is something I'll certainly consider as a limitation of the machines' ability to actually wipe the mind (the other alternative being to perform lobotomies from Hell...).

Likewise, mind uploading would do the opposite of the robots' goal - to cleanse the universe of sin - since it would be introducing sin-prone consciousnesses to robotic mental constructs. However, uploaded minds could be used for extracting data, like where more organics can be found; memory-copying would thus be yet another interesting twist.

[SquareDisc City]

Likewise, mind uploading would do the opposite of the robots' goal - to cleanse the universe of sin - since it would be introducing sin-prone consciousnesses to robotic mental constructs. However, uploaded minds could be used for extracting data, like where more organics can be found; memory-copying would thus be yet another interesting twist.

A mental upload makes it far easier to manipulate the mind to remove the sin. Maybe that could be a future direction - after a high-profile failure of the chemical or surgical "treatment" employed against organics, the machines decide the "only way" to be sure of removing sin without having to kill the sinners is to upload the minds to machines in order to edit them and destroy the organic bodies. That might also result in a greater readiness to resort to high velocity space rocks for difficult cases. It would also give the angle that the machines see organics as too complicated and difficult to manipulate, which is one I haven't seen in other franchises.

[YellowApple]

Likewise, mind uploading would do the opposite of the robots' goal - to cleanse the universe of sin - since it would be introducing sin-prone consciousnesses to robotic mental constructs. However, uploaded minds could be used for extracting data, like where more organics can be found; memory-copying would thus be yet another interesting twist.

A mental upload makes it far easier to manipulate the mind to remove the sin. Maybe that could be a future direction - after a high-profile failure of the chemical or surgical "treatment" employed against organics, the machines decide the "only way" to be sure of removing sin without having to kill the sinners is to upload the minds to machines in order to edit them and destroy the organic bodies. That might also result in a greater readiness to resort to high velocity space rocks for difficult cases. It would also give the angle that the machines see organics as too complicated and difficult to manipulate, which is one I haven't seen in other franchises.

Perhaps a temporary upload for reprogramming purposes would be okay. I do like the angle of considering the organics to be excessively complex, though that also reeks of the whole "humans always win because they're special for some weird and contrived reason" trope. The justifications of doing it that way are also sound.

[Kreanoltha]

A mental upload makes it far easier to manipulate the mind to remove the sin. Maybe that could be a future direction - after a high-profile failure of the chemical or surgical "treatment" employed against organics, the machines decide the "only way" to be sure of removing sin without having to kill the sinners is to upload the minds to machines in order to edit them and destroy the organic bodies. That might also result in a greater readiness to resort to high velocity space rocks for difficult cases. It would also give the angle that the machines see organics as too complicated and difficult to manipulate, which is one I haven't seen in other franchises.

Perhaps a temporary upload for reprogramming purposes would be okay. I do like the angle of considering the organics to be excessively complex, though that also reeks of the whole "humans always win because they're special for some weird and contrived reason" trope. The justifications of doing it that way are also sound.

There is no reason to think that this would work. You can not up-load a mind, edit it, and redownload it with the fixes. Brains do not work that way. The only way to change the mind that is in the brain is to edit the neurons because that's all the mind is: neurons chatting with neurons. You have to reconfigure the neurons. Based on what you're talking about doing, you would still need surgery.