NationStates

My concern was less reaction time, and more the laws of physics itself. If you spend less time in contact with your power source, you'll therefor draw less power from it. Of course, this shouldn't really become an issue if you keep it at some undefined limit and never bother thinking how much energy/time you actually need to draw from the stars to accelerate/decelerate.

Sertian wrote:My concern was less reaction time, and more the laws of physics itself. If you spend less time in contact with your power source, you'll therefor draw less power from it. Of course, this shouldn't really become an issue if you keep it at some undefined limit and never bother thinking how much energy/time you actually need to draw from the stars to accelerate/decelerate.

In which case, that can be compensated for by starting to draw energy from deeper in the star as you come out than where you went to Weirdspace (TM) in the starting one.

Ok so some random person made up a gun with a Muzzle speed of 5400 FPS. Which is a Gas Gun pretty much. Could you make a Gas Gun type thing out of a Rifle or Assault Rifle in cased rounds?

Yes Im Biop wrote:Ok so some random person made up a gun with a Muzzle speed of 5400 FPS. Which is a Gas Gun pretty much. Could you make a Gas Gun type thing out of a Rifle or Assault Rifle in cased rounds?

A...gas gun? Aren't all gunpowder weapons (and several other types) gas-powered?

The 44th Indp Legion wrote:

Yes Im Biop wrote:Ok so some random person made up a gun with a Muzzle speed of 5400 FPS. Which is a Gas Gun pretty much. Could you make a Gas Gun type thing out of a Rifle or Assault Rifle in cased rounds?

A...gas gun? Aren't all gunpowder weapons (and several other types) gas-powered?

Nope

Light Gas Gun

I assume Biop is referring to a Light gas gun. Currently they're specialised devices used to study high-velocity impacts, not practical weapons.

But as it happens, 5400 ft/s is entirely obtainable with conventional propellant, the M829 tank round achieves it. To go beyond that, likely short-term technologies I think are electrothermal-chemical technology (ETC) rounds, and possibly combustion light gas guns.

My time has ended and I am at peace. Now I can get back to my life instead of obsessively checking this thread and OH MY GOD HAVE I BUMPED MY RP YET?!

SquareDisc City wrote:I assume Biop is referring to a Light gas gun. Currently they're specialised devices used to study high-velocity impacts, not practical weapons.

But as it happens, 5400 ft/s is entirely obtainable with conventional propellant, the M829 tank round achieves it. To go beyond that, likely short-term technologies I think are electrothermal-chemical technology (ETC) rounds, and possibly combustion light gas guns.

Of course, the most practical way to handle all of this is just to use a coilgun or railgun.

SquareDisc City wrote:I assume Biop is referring to a Light gas gun. Currently they're specialised devices used to study high-velocity impacts, not practical weapons.

But as it happens, 5400 ft/s is entirely obtainable with conventional propellant, the M829 tank round achieves it. To go beyond that, likely short-term technologies I think are electrothermal-chemical technology (ETC) rounds, and possibly combustion light gas guns.

1645.92 m/s (please, just stick to SI units when talking about anything vaguely sciency.) is actually quite doable if you use sabot rounds such as the APFSDS munitions currently in fairly wide use. Using compressed gasses stored in a container, although I use that very same principle on my hybrid gauss/gas pressure infantry rifles, is highly impractical since it is both heavy, vulnerable subject to breakdowns and, most of all, it requires the gaseous version of a capacitor. (it has a name, but it's late over here, so screw it) Furthermore, there are some very real limitations to your fire rate. As a primary propulsion system it could be fairly powerful and without the need for a powerful electrical source, but there are many alternatives with equal or higher power at lower weight and higher rate of fire at most FT-level technology. That being said, it is certainly stylish. I myself strongly believe it is also viable for hybrid weapon systems, as the gas propellant obviously propels the projectile, but it does so in a way which does not interfere with several other methods of propulsion which could be used simultaneously, at which point the propellant gas also serves to cool whatever coils you may or may not use in your rifle.

Kreanoltha wrote:

SquareDisc City wrote:I assume Biop is referring to a Light gas gun. Currently they're specialised devices used to study high-velocity impacts, not practical weapons.

But as it happens, 5400 ft/s is entirely obtainable with conventional propellant, the M829 tank round achieves it. To go beyond that, likely short-term technologies I think are electrothermal-chemical technology (ETC) rounds, and possibly combustion light gas guns.

Of course, the most practical way to handle all of this is just to use a coilgun or railgun.

But no where near as fun.

The 44th Indp Legion wrote:

SquareDisc City wrote:I assume Biop is referring to a Light gas gun. Currently they're specialised devices used to study high-velocity impacts, not practical weapons.

But as it happens, 5400 ft/s is entirely obtainable with conventional propellant, the M829 tank round achieves it. To go beyond that, likely short-term technologies I think are electrothermal-chemical technology (ETC) rounds, and possibly combustion light gas guns.

Words

Sorry Long quote.

Is why i was thinking it for an AMR Or something.

Is this a decent FT arsenal for a nation that specializes in boarding and urban combat?

GWACA wrote:Is this a decent FT arsenal for a nation that specializes in boarding and urban combat?

Looks like something a Early/Mid PMT nation would use,not an FT nation.

Bajireyn wrote:

GWACA wrote:Is this a decent FT arsenal for a nation that specializes in boarding and urban combat?

Looks like something a Early/Mid PMT nation would use,not an FT nation.

Well I still use conventional ammo. So what would you suggest?

A .45 caliber rifle round is a bit much for small arms. Recoil would make them rather difficult to aim. If you really must have a large round the .303 is generally considered ideal for 'battle rifles' and machine guns, although the trend these days is mostly towards smaller rounds, such as the 5.56mm and 6.8mm.

I would also note that full auto assault rifles are a dying breed. Full auto fire is generally not desirable in a standard infantryman's weapon. You want burst fire and semi-auto.

Military pistols don't generally use super-high powered rounds because pistols are intended as close-combat weapons, the risk is that with a magnum round the bullet will simply pass right through the target, rather than imparting maximum force and expending all of its energy in somebody's innards.

Shotguns should not be issued to sniper teams. A preferred secondary weapon for snipers would be a marksmans rifle (that is, something halfway between a battle rifle and a sniper rifle, such as the Dragunov.) Shotguns would best be dolled out to specialist assault units and to NCO's who happen to like them. Vehicle crews might appreciate them as well, since you don't have a carbine.

Using a .50 caliber rifle for the 'standard' sniper rifle is also inefficient for much the same reason. You don't need that big of a round to kill somebody unless you're shooting from 2 miles away.


Suggested additions:
A GMPG, and an LMG. Mobile fire support is important.

Some sort of SMG. Useful for vehicle crews and assault units.

A carbine. Same as above, if you don't like SMGs.

Marksmans rifle. Like the US M14 or the Russian Dragunov.

Specialist weapons. See the VSS Vintorez, the various weapons used by US special ops, etc.



Also, look into caseless ammunition. Nobody likes leaving a bunch of brass laying around the field. It's wasteful.

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:A .45 caliber rifle round is a bit much for small arms. Recoil would make them rather difficult to aim. If you really must have a large round the .303 is generally considered ideal for 'battle rifles' and machine guns, although the trend these days is mostly towards smaller rounds, such as the 5.56mm and 6.8mm.

I would also note that full auto assault rifles are a dying breed. Full auto fire is generally not desirable in a standard infantryman's weapon. You want burst fire and semi-auto.

Military pistols don't generally use super-high powered rounds because pistols are intended as close-combat weapons, the risk is that with a magnum round the bullet will simply pass right through the target, rather than imparting maximum force and expending all of its energy in somebody's innards.

Shotguns should not be issued to sniper teams. A preferred secondary weapon for snipers would be a marksmans rifle (that is, something halfway between a battle rifle and a sniper rifle, such as the Dragunov.) Shotguns would best be dolled out to specialist assault units and to NCO's who happen to like them. Vehicle crews might appreciate them as well, since you don't have a carbine.

Using a .50 caliber rifle for the 'standard' sniper rifle is also inefficient for much the same reason. You don't need that big of a round to kill somebody unless you're shooting from 2 miles away.


Suggested additions:
A GMPG, and an LMG. Mobile fire support is important.

Some sort of SMG. Useful for vehicle crews and assault units.

A carbine. Same as above, if you don't like SMGs.

Marksmans rifle. Like the US M14 or the Russian Dragunov.

Specialist weapons. See the VSS Vintorez, the various weapons used by US special ops, etc.



Also, look into caseless ammunition. Nobody likes leaving a bunch of brass laying around the field. It's wasteful.

Marksman rifles are unnecessary inside of ships narrow and short corridors. I have no vehicles, what vehicle crews? I disagree on the recoil with the recoil dampening system and the weight of the gun it wouldn't kick much. (I've shot a .45 win mag rifle it barely kicks at all) I'm competing with soldiers from Warhammer 40k... so I need the 50 to penetrate their armor. My AR has a full auto and a semi auto mode. It is intended for short range on full and med on semi. Pistol is high powered for the same reason the sniper is. Shotguns for snipers only in boarding situations. We shy away from open conflict and prefer naval and urban conflicts instead.

GWACA wrote:

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:A .45 caliber rifle round is a bit much for small arms. Recoil would make them rather difficult to aim. If you really must have a large round the .303 is generally considered ideal for 'battle rifles' and machine guns, although the trend these days is mostly towards smaller rounds, such as the 5.56mm and 6.8mm.

I would also note that full auto assault rifles are a dying breed. Full auto fire is generally not desirable in a standard infantryman's weapon. You want burst fire and semi-auto.

Military pistols don't generally use super-high powered rounds because pistols are intended as close-combat weapons, the risk is that with a magnum round the bullet will simply pass right through the target, rather than imparting maximum force and expending all of its energy in somebody's innards.

Shotguns should not be issued to sniper teams. A preferred secondary weapon for snipers would be a marksmans rifle (that is, something halfway between a battle rifle and a sniper rifle, such as the Dragunov.) Shotguns would best be dolled out to specialist assault units and to NCO's who happen to like them. Vehicle crews might appreciate them as well, since you don't have a carbine.

Using a .50 caliber rifle for the 'standard' sniper rifle is also inefficient for much the same reason. You don't need that big of a round to kill somebody unless you're shooting from 2 miles away.


Suggested additions:
A GMPG, and an LMG. Mobile fire support is important.

Some sort of SMG. Useful for vehicle crews and assault units.

A carbine. Same as above, if you don't like SMGs.

Marksmans rifle. Like the US M14 or the Russian Dragunov.

Specialist weapons. See the VSS Vintorez, the various weapons used by US special ops, etc.



Also, look into caseless ammunition. Nobody likes leaving a bunch of brass laying around the field. It's wasteful.

Marksman rifles are unnecessary inside of ships narrow and short corridors. I have no vehicles, what vehicle crews? I disagree on the recoil with the recoil dampening system and the weight of the gun it wouldn't kick much. (I've shot a .45 win mag rifle it barely kicks at all) I'm competing with soldiers from Warhammer 40k... so I need the 50 to penetrate their armor. My AR has a full auto and a semi auto mode. It is intended for short range on full and med on semi. Pistol is high powered for the same reason the sniper is. Shotguns for snipers only in boarding situations. We shy away from open conflict and prefer naval and urban conflicts instead.

If you're fighting Space Marines, then your weapons are horribly underpowered compared to the bolters they're going to be proofing their armor against and firing at you. If it's a regular Imperial crew, no need for any big calibers since they'll just be wearing flak vests anyway. The chances of you successfully engaging a Space Marine in close combat (where they will most likely be wearing Tactical Dreadnought armor, which was designed for such purposes) with these weapons are pretty small, if the guy knows his stuff. Same thing with similarly-powerful species, including the Orks, who'll just shrug it off, and the Eldar, who will unleash all sorts of tricks.

The Akasha Colony wrote:

GWACA wrote:
Marksman rifles are unnecessary inside of ships narrow and short corridors. I have no vehicles, what vehicle crews? I disagree on the recoil with the recoil dampening system and the weight of the gun it wouldn't kick much. (I've shot a .45 win mag rifle it barely kicks at all) I'm competing with soldiers from Warhammer 40k... so I need the 50 to penetrate their armor. My AR has a full auto and a semi auto mode. It is intended for short range on full and med on semi. Pistol is high powered for the same reason the sniper is. Shotguns for snipers only in boarding situations. We shy away from open conflict and prefer naval and urban conflicts instead.

If you're fighting Space Marines, then your weapons are horribly underpowered compared to the bolters they're going to be proofing their armor against and firing at you. If it's a regular Imperial crew, no need for any big calibers since they'll just be wearing flak vests anyway. The chances of you successfully engaging a Space Marine in close combat (where they will most likely be wearing Tactical Dreadnought armor, which was designed for such purposes) with these weapons are pretty small, if the guy knows his stuff. Same thing with similarly-powerful species, including the Orks, who'll just shrug it off, and the Eldar, who will unleash all sorts of tricks.

Protip: don't meta game. You don't have to worry about standing up to the WH40K guys. They all go via Code of Bro. You tech is just as powerful as their tech when it comes to game mechanics. But think here. If you're going to be in ships, you don't need weapons like that. Your shotguns are good, but you'll want to lose the snipers. What good are they going to be in a tight in environment like a space ship? You'll want to look for things like rounds that can penetrate armor but can't penetrate hulls. Try for things like carbines for maneuverability.

Kreanoltha wrote:

The Akasha Colony wrote:
If you're fighting Space Marines, then your weapons are horribly underpowered compared to the bolters they're going to be proofing their armor against and firing at you. If it's a regular Imperial crew, no need for any big calibers since they'll just be wearing flak vests anyway. The chances of you successfully engaging a Space Marine in close combat (where they will most likely be wearing Tactical Dreadnought armor, which was designed for such purposes) with these weapons are pretty small, if the guy knows his stuff. Same thing with similarly-powerful species, including the Orks, who'll just shrug it off, and the Eldar, who will unleash all sorts of tricks.

Protip: don't meta game. You don't have to worry about standing up to the WH40K guys. They all go via Code of Bro. You tech is just as powerful as their tech when it comes to game mechanics. But think here. If you're going to be in ships, you don't need weapons like that. Your shotguns are good, but you'll want to lose the snipers. What good are they going to be in a tight in environment like a space ship? You'll want to look for things like rounds that can penetrate armor but can't penetrate hulls. Try for things like carbines for maneuverability.

And for that matter,if your going to be fighting in close quarters, you should probably use bullpups.

Bajireyn wrote:

Kreanoltha wrote:
Protip: don't meta game. You don't have to worry about standing up to the WH40K guys. They all go via Code of Bro. You tech is just as powerful as their tech when it comes to game mechanics. But think here. If you're going to be in ships, you don't need weapons like that. Your shotguns are good, but you'll want to lose the snipers. What good are they going to be in a tight in environment like a space ship? You'll want to look for things like rounds that can penetrate armor but can't penetrate hulls. Try for things like carbines for maneuverability.

And for that matter,if your going to be fighting in close quarters, you should probably use bullpups.

No, we're taking the American stance on that and saying "Bullpup is for pussys" even though our shotgun is bullpup.

GWACA wrote:

Bajireyn wrote:And for that matter,if your going to be fighting in close quarters, you should probably use bullpups.

No, we're taking the American stance on that and saying "Bullpup is for pussys" even though our shotgun is bullpup.

Then your people are being dumb. Bullpups give you a longer barrel while making an overall shorter rifle. Longer barrels mean a more powerful rifle. See? Make your rifles bullpup if your going to be working in tight spaces. It's harder to do in a standard configuration.

Kreanoltha wrote:

The Akasha Colony wrote:
If you're fighting Space Marines, then your weapons are horribly underpowered compared to the bolters they're going to be proofing their armor against and firing at you. If it's a regular Imperial crew, no need for any big calibers since they'll just be wearing flak vests anyway. The chances of you successfully engaging a Space Marine in close combat (where they will most likely be wearing Tactical Dreadnought armor, which was designed for such purposes) with these weapons are pretty small, if the guy knows his stuff. Same thing with similarly-powerful species, including the Orks, who'll just shrug it off, and the Eldar, who will unleash all sorts of tricks.

Protip: don't meta game. You don't have to worry about standing up to the WH40K guys. They all go via Code of Bro. You tech is just as powerful as their tech when it comes to game mechanics. But think here. If you're going to be in ships, you don't need weapons like that. Your shotguns are good, but you'll want to lose the snipers. What good are they going to be in a tight in environment like a space ship? You'll want to look for things like rounds that can penetrate armor but can't penetrate hulls. Try for things like carbines for maneuverability.

At that point, I'd call that metagaming abuse of Code of Bro. Now you're completely ignoring not only relative tech differences, but more importantly play style differences. Space Marines are extremely difficult to kill in order to balance out the fact that there are so few of them. If you start claiming to be able to kill them with small arms and a host of flak jacketed marines, I for one would just walk out. What's the point of playing if even flavor differences get tossed aside in favor of a magic Code that automatically makes everyone equal and wipes out differences? No real point putting any thought into a nation or a military then, I'll just slap a laser on my shuttle and call it a battleship via Code of Bro.

The Akasha Colony wrote:

Kreanoltha wrote:
Protip: don't meta game. You don't have to worry about standing up to the WH40K guys. They all go via Code of Bro. You tech is just as powerful as their tech when it comes to game mechanics. But think here. If you're going to be in ships, you don't need weapons like that. Your shotguns are good, but you'll want to lose the snipers. What good are they going to be in a tight in environment like a space ship? You'll want to look for things like rounds that can penetrate armor but can't penetrate hulls. Try for things like carbines for maneuverability.

At that point, I'd call that metagaming abuse of Code of Bro. Now you're completely ignoring not only relative tech differences, but more importantly play style differences. Space Marines are extremely difficult to kill in order to balance out the fact that there are so few of them. If you start claiming to be able to kill them with small arms and a host of flak jacketed marines, I for one would just walk out. What's the point of playing if even flavor differences get tossed aside in favor of a magic Code that automatically makes everyone equal and wipes out differences? No real point putting any thought into a nation or a military then, I'll just slap a laser on my shuttle and call it a battleship via Code of Bro.

Those would get you laughed out of anything. I'm saying that if an nBSG based nation were to go up against a WH40K nation they would have an equal chance of winning based on Code of Bro. It takes a lot of OOC communication to make it work out. No one will respect you if you strap a laser to a shuttle. If you have a well thought out nation that just happens to be technically unadvanced then Code of Bro kicks in to make it work via OOC communication.

Kreanoltha wrote:

The Akasha Colony wrote:
At that point, I'd call that metagaming abuse of Code of Bro. Now you're completely ignoring not only relative tech differences, but more importantly play style differences. Space Marines are extremely difficult to kill in order to balance out the fact that there are so few of them. If you start claiming to be able to kill them with small arms and a host of flak jacketed marines, I for one would just walk out. What's the point of playing if even flavor differences get tossed aside in favor of a magic Code that automatically makes everyone equal and wipes out differences? No real point putting any thought into a nation or a military then, I'll just slap a laser on my shuttle and call it a battleship via Code of Bro.

Those would get you laughed out of anything. I'm saying that if an nBSG based nation were to go up against a WH40K nation they would have an equal chance of winning based on Code of Bro. It takes a lot of OOC communication to make it work out. No one will respect you if you strap a laser to a shuttle. If you have a well thought out nation that just happens to be technically unadvanced then Code of Bro kicks in to make it work via OOC communication.

So what your saying is that even though my guns might as well be peas shooters when put against their armor i'll still be able to kill them?

The Akasha Colony wrote:

Kreanoltha wrote:
Protip: don't meta game. You don't have to worry about standing up to the WH40K guys. They all go via Code of Bro. You tech is just as powerful as their tech when it comes to game mechanics. But think here. If you're going to be in ships, you don't need weapons like that. Your shotguns are good, but you'll want to lose the snipers. What good are they going to be in a tight in environment like a space ship? You'll want to look for things like rounds that can penetrate armor but can't penetrate hulls. Try for things like carbines for maneuverability.

At that point, I'd call that metagaming abuse of Code of Bro. Now you're completely ignoring not only relative tech differences, but more importantly play style differences. Space Marines are extremely difficult to kill in order to balance out the fact that there are so few of them. If you start claiming to be able to kill them with small arms and a host of flak jacketed marines, I for one would just walk out. What's the point of playing if even flavor differences get tossed aside in favor of a magic Code that automatically makes everyone equal and wipes out differences? No real point putting any thought into a nation or a military then, I'll just slap a laser on my shuttle and call it a battleship via Code of Bro.

Calm down, both of you have a point. A Space Marine/WH40K player will point out is troops are tougher and harder to kill, at the same time he won't make his troops invincible and will (hopefully) remember he can only deploy a handful of troops, comparatively.

As an example, my infantry carry laser rifles, they would be rather unlikely to hurt SM, except for a lucky joint hit. However the heavier SAW's or MR could possible penetrate the armor. Plus I use air support lots and lots of air support. You have to have advantages and disadvantages, everything is a trade off.

GWACA wrote:

Bajireyn wrote:Looks like something a Early/Mid PMT nation would use,not an FT nation.

Well I still use conventional ammo. So what would you suggest?

Nothing wrong in kinetic weapons for infantry, it's not like the enemy's going to be dodging it, but 'realistically' to pack enough punch to get through enemy armour or shields you should be moving beyond conventional powder. Coilgun or railgun is the obvious choice, but combustion light gas guns might be viable, as might micro rockets. Alternatively you could go with explosive bullets instead of increased speed; with a fair degree of handwavium miniature fusion or antimatter charges are viable.