Advice Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[Oppressorion]

If your ships have typical FT BIGGATON ENERGY SHIELDS you should be capable of taking quick dives into the photosphere, and possibly even deeper if your biggatons are really big.

Actually the ship has no energy shielding - the Drive converts the energy in the heat sinks into acceleration so quickly it barely has time to affect the ship.

[Kreanoltha]

If your ships have typical FT BIGGATON ENERGY SHIELDS you should be capable of taking quick dives into the photosphere, and possibly even deeper if your biggatons are really big.

Actually the ship has no energy shielding - the Drive converts the energy in the heat sinks into acceleration so quickly it barely has time to affect the ship.

... No you don't want to do that. You know what happens when a circuit or a wire shorts out? It's because there is too much energy flowing through the circuit or wire. It can't conduct it fast enough to keep the wire or circuit from melting. If you're talking about using your hull as a conductor to channel energy from a star your hull will have to be made from pure, one hundred percent weapons grade, refined handwavium. In fact, your handwavium would have to be so powerful that most weapons would be unable to harm your ships. I know I don't have anything near powerful enough to hurt your if they can take being steamed through a star. Come to think of it, if you were using energy shields it would still be too powerful.

[Oppressorion]

Actually the ship has no energy shielding - the Drive converts the energy in the heat sinks into acceleration so quickly it barely has time to affect the ship.

... No you don't want to do that. You know what happens when a circuit or a wire shorts out? It's because there is too much energy flowing through the circuit or wire. It can't conduct it fast enough to keep the wire or circuit from melting. If you're talking about using your hull as a conductor to channel energy from a star your hull will have to be made from pure, one hundred percent weapons grade, refined handwavium. In fact, your handwavium would have to be so powerful that most weapons would be unable to harm your ships. I know I don't have anything near powerful enough to hurt your if they can take being steamed through a star. Come to think of it, if you were using energy shields it would still be too powerful.

[Furiously backpedaling] Actually, the handwavium is [now] the Drive's energy collector, located at the front of the ship - it absorbs the radiated heat before it reaches the hull. Okay, the ship now approaches the star dead on, and reaches FTL speeds before things get too hot - past the light barrier, everything goes weird and the ship is no longer tangible or subject to the star's heat - it uses a different drive to slow down.

[SquareDisc City]

On the contrary, I think fast thermal conduction is important. If you fly your spacecraft into a star other than a red dwarf it will start to melt unless it's made of unobtanium or has magic shields. If you cared only about surviving in the star as long as possible, you would want a hull material with low thermal conductivity, high melting point, and high enthalpy of fusion and ideall vaporisation.

But if you want to use the heat, you need to conduct it inwards to drive your heat engine. In such a case I think you might be looking to bring the whole ship (excepting crew spaces) up to a temperature just short of its melting point quickly, generating power as you do so, in order to get the hell out of dodge before you outright melt. Then that high conductivity helps you cool back down quickly. Alternatively you could build most of your ship to be heat-resistant and use "heat pipes" to carry the heat inwards to the engine.

Of course it looks like you're still developing this anyway, which there's nothing wrong in. The biggest hole is probably the idea that this can yield more energy than fusion reactors; I haven't done the maths to know for sure.

[Kreanoltha]

... No you don't want to do that. You know what happens when a circuit or a wire shorts out? It's because there is too much energy flowing through the circuit or wire. It can't conduct it fast enough to keep the wire or circuit from melting. If you're talking about using your hull as a conductor to channel energy from a star your hull will have to be made from pure, one hundred percent weapons grade, refined handwavium. In fact, your handwavium would have to be so powerful that most weapons would be unable to harm your ships. I know I don't have anything near powerful enough to hurt your if they can take being steamed through a star. Come to think of it, if you were using energy shields it would still be too powerful.

[Furiously backpedaling] Actually, the handwavium is [now] the Drive's energy collector, located at the front of the ship - it absorbs the radiated heat before it reaches the hull. Okay, the ship now approaches the star dead on, and reaches FTL speeds before things get too hot - past the light barrier, everything goes weird and the ship is no longer tangible or subject to the star's heat - it uses a different drive to slow down.

Nice handwave. But, I'm assuming that in someway the ship leaves reaslspace. If it doesn't then you''re screwed as you start moving faster as you will hit the star becuase you'll be going faster than light in a massive cloud of hydrogen. I don't need to tell you why that is bad.

[Strykla]

... No you don't want to do that. You know what happens when a circuit or a wire shorts out? It's because there is too much energy flowing through the circuit or wire. It can't conduct it fast enough to keep the wire or circuit from melting. If you're talking about using your hull as a conductor to channel energy from a star your hull will have to be made from pure, one hundred percent weapons grade, refined handwavium. In fact, your handwavium would have to be so powerful that most weapons would be unable to harm your ships. I know I don't have anything near powerful enough to hurt your if they can take being steamed through a star. Come to think of it, if you were using energy shields it would still be too powerful.

[Furiously backpedaling] Actually, the handwavium is [now] the Drive's energy collector, located at the front of the ship - it absorbs the radiated heat before it reaches the hull. Okay, the ship now approaches the star dead on, and reaches FTL speeds before things get too hot - past the light barrier, everything goes weird and the ship is no longer tangible or subject to the star's heat - it uses a different drive to slow down.

The heat aside, there's also pressure you have to deal with. The kind of pressure that forces atoms together.

As for going FTL, there's always the Alcubierre drive, but significant distortion of space would also cause the star to freak out. I mean, if your ship's only a few kilometers big, then (probably) nothing serious. Still, I wouldn't bet on there being no aftereffects.

[Oppressorion]

Of course it looks like you're still developing this anyway, which there's nothing wrong in. The biggest hole is probably the idea that this can yield more energy than fusion reactors; I haven't done the maths to know for sure.

Well, this drive wasn't developed by the most ethical of companies (plus I wanted something creative, and turning every star in the universe into a multi-destination wormhole is interesting to say the least). Basically, they did the maths and decided that with the sort of cargo they were carrying (low value mass produced goods, lots of trips), it was worth it to risk a few lost ships and dead bodies than pay for extra equipment and maintenance, plus upgrading and replacement costs (it's not like stars are going anywhere).

[SquareDisc City]

Pressure will of course be pretty ruinous if you try to punch through the core at sublight. But if you're only cutting through the outer layers, or you've already entered FTL and thus don't interact strongly with normal matter before you pass through the core, you should be OK.

And indeed, I think any sort of FTL drive that employs spacetime distortion is going to be a bad thing to use near a star or anything, unless it's very refined so the distortions are strongly localised to the ship in question.

[Oppressorion]

Nice handwave. But, I'm assuming that in someway the ship leaves reaslspace. If it doesn't then you''re screwed as you start moving faster as you will hit the star becuase you'll be going faster than light in a massive cloud of hydrogen. I don't need to tell you why that is bad.

Yep, that's the "physics goes weird" bit - you're still in the same universe, but a different...interpretation, I suppose would be the best way to describe it. Heat and matter is still there, but they have been transformed into versions that don't affect the ship. Imagine...argh, it's hard to explain. Imagine - no. Imagine turning on both noclip and godmode at once. That's not the same thing, but it'll do until I can figure out how to explain it better.

To try and clarify things, a step-by-step procedure:

Ship approaches star on normal recoil engines.
Ship begins falling into star. Sun Drive engaged at correct distance, powered by the energy collector.
Ship accelerates and heat increases, as does the SD's power requirements. The ship's course and total mass has been carefully calculated to balance the heat energy coming in and the power consumed by the Drive. Messing this calculation up will typically lead to an uncontrolled freefall, dooming the ship completely.
The ship reaches FTL velocity, and transitions into weirdspace (a better name will be thought of shortly). Heat can still be collected, but does not affect the ship other than that.
The ship reaches another star, and runs the Sun Drive in reverse to return to realspace. On exit, it is travelling fast enough that the heat is not an issue - exposure is limited to a few seconds at most before it is out of danger and slows down using conventional engines.

[Balrogga]

One flaw: If your ship goes FTL so the star does not crush/kill/melt/devour/ect..., then it is also not in Real Space to affect the target when using it as a torpedo. If it does not go FTL, then the star should get it before the vehicle exits the effects of the environment. You did initially state it was to travel just under C (0.99, I believe) but if it is FTL then it would be traveling Faster Than Light (C).

[YellowApple]

Actually the ship has no energy shielding - the Drive converts the energy in the heat sinks into acceleration so quickly it barely has time to affect the ship.

... No you don't want to do that. You know what happens when a circuit or a wire shorts out? It's because there is too much energy flowing through the circuit or wire. It can't conduct it fast enough to keep the wire or circuit from melting. If you're talking about using your hull as a conductor to channel energy from a star your hull will have to be made from pure, one hundred percent weapons grade, refined handwavium. In fact, your handwavium would have to be so powerful that most weapons would be unable to harm your ships. I know I don't have anything near powerful enough to hurt your if they can take being steamed through a star. Come to think of it, if you were using energy shields it would still be too powerful.

I don't think that's what "shorting out" usually means; generally (in electrical engineering speak), a "short" is when electrical current travels along a circuit path other than the one intended, usually resulting in something being cut off from receiving power. For example, two bare wires - one voltage supply and one ground - touching together would be a short.

What you're thinking of is resistive heating (a.k.a. Joule heating), where the conductor in an electrical circuit heats up due to the interaction between current and resistance (a la Ohm's law). One can actually calculate the amount of heat dissipated via this effect using Joule's First Law:



Resistive heating - and melting metal - is how fuses work in RL.

I'm sure none of that is relevant to the discussion, but I figured it worth pointing out regardless

[Kreanoltha]

... No you don't want to do that. You know what happens when a circuit or a wire shorts out? It's because there is too much energy flowing through the circuit or wire. It can't conduct it fast enough to keep the wire or circuit from melting. If you're talking about using your hull as a conductor to channel energy from a star your hull will have to be made from pure, one hundred percent weapons grade, refined handwavium. In fact, your handwavium would have to be so powerful that most weapons would be unable to harm your ships. I know I don't have anything near powerful enough to hurt your if they can take being steamed through a star. Come to think of it, if you were using energy shields it would still be too powerful.

I don't think that's what "shorting out" usually means; generally (in electrical engineering speak), a "short" is when electrical current travels along a circuit path other than the one intended, usually resulting in something being cut off from receiving power. For example, two bare wires - one voltage supply and one ground - touching together would be a short.

What you're thinking of is resistive heating (a.k.a. Joule heating), where the conductor in an electrical circuit heats up due to the interaction between current and resistance (a la Ohm's law). One can actually calculate the amount of heat dissipated via this effect using Joule's First Law:



Resistive heating - and melting metal - is how fuses work in RL.

I'm sure none of that is relevant to the discussion, but I figured it worth pointing out regardless

Ah. Thanks for correcting me. Come to think of it, I'm describing a power surge. However, your description is more apt.

[YellowApple]

I don't think that's what "shorting out" usually means; generally (in electrical engineering speak), a "short" is when electrical current travels along a circuit path other than the one intended, usually resulting in something being cut off from receiving power. For example, two bare wires - one voltage supply and one ground - touching together would be a short.

What you're thinking of is resistive heating (a.k.a. Joule heating), where the conductor in an electrical circuit heats up due to the interaction between current and resistance (a la Ohm's law). One can actually calculate the amount of heat dissipated via this effect using Joule's First Law:



Resistive heating - and melting metal - is how fuses work in RL.

I'm sure none of that is relevant to the discussion, but I figured it worth pointing out regardless

Ah. Thanks for correcting me. Come to think of it, I'm describing a power surge. However, your description is more apt.

No problem

Power surges are slightly different, but would still factor into this; since flying through a not-quite-homogenous nuclear fusion reactor would understandably cause significant fluctuations in the amount of energy being drawn from these handwavium-constructed heatsinks, said fluctuations would cause alternations between (relative to the average voltage through the duration of the star-slingshot maneuver) voltage spikes and voltage sags. This will put a heavy strain on the transformers converting the irregular electrical energy to electricity actually usable by electronics and other onboard systems, which would in turn cause both resistive heating and - likely as a result - short circuits.

Of course, I've only briefly skimmed over the slingshotting in question, so I'm sure there are some factors that I've glazed over.

[Kreanoltha]

Ah. Thanks for correcting me. Come to think of it, I'm describing a power surge. However, your description is more apt.

No problem

Power surges are slightly different, but would still factor into this; since flying through a not-quite-homogenous nuclear fusion reactor would understandably cause significant fluctuations in the amount of energy being drawn from these handwavium-constructed heatsinks, said fluctuations would cause alternations between (relative to the average voltage through the duration of the star-slingshot maneuver) voltage spikes and voltage sags. This will put a heavy strain on the transformers converting the irregular electrical energy to electricity actually usable by electronics and other onboard systems, which would in turn cause both resistive heating and - likely as a result - short circuits.

Of course, I've only briefly skimmed over the slingshotting in question, so I'm sure there are some factors that I've glazed over.

Everything seems to be in order with that. Sadly, the end result is that DEWs would have little effect on this hull. Maybe particle beams would, but most DEWs would get absorbed by this particular strain of handwavium. Thermonuclear warheads (being essentially small stars) would also not be able to do much. KEWs would probably be fine though. Maybe chemical high explosive as well.I can hear people calling godmod on that.

[YellowApple]

No problem

Power surges are slightly different, but would still factor into this; since flying through a not-quite-homogenous nuclear fusion reactor would understandably cause significant fluctuations in the amount of energy being drawn from these handwavium-constructed heatsinks, said fluctuations would cause alternations between (relative to the average voltage through the duration of the star-slingshot maneuver) voltage spikes and voltage sags. This will put a heavy strain on the transformers converting the irregular electrical energy to electricity actually usable by electronics and other onboard systems, which would in turn cause both resistive heating and - likely as a result - short circuits.

Of course, I've only briefly skimmed over the slingshotting in question, so I'm sure there are some factors that I've glazed over.

Everything seems to be in order with that. Sadly, the end result is that DEWs would have little effect on this hull. Maybe particle beams would, but most DEWs would get absorbed by this particular strain of handwavium. Thermonuclear warheads (being essentially small stars) would also not be able to do much. KEWs would probably be fine though. Maybe chemical high explosive as well.I can hear people calling godmod on that.

True, a single pulse of energy at star-level magnitude would be easily shrugged off. However, if the ship is somehow gaining energy by absorbing it from energy-based attacks, then it would be possible to shut down the ship's energy-converting transformers by overloading them with repeated and rapid pulses (which would, again, involve rapid voltage spikes and sags, straining the electrical elements). With enough persistence, it would be quite possible to burn out the power regulation circuitry from the high electrical stress.

It's like taking a computer's power supply, plugging it into one side of a high-voltage switch, and plugging the other end of the switch directly into a power grid, then flipping the switch over and over again; eventually, things inside that power supply will start to fail spectacularly. By the same analogue, I imagine it would be trivial to blow a few fuses.

[Kreanoltha]

Everything seems to be in order with that. Sadly, the end result is that DEWs would have little effect on this hull. Maybe particle beams would, but most DEWs would get absorbed by this particular strain of handwavium. Thermonuclear warheads (being essentially small stars) would also not be able to do much. KEWs would probably be fine though. Maybe chemical high explosive as well.I can hear people calling godmod on that.

True, a single pulse of energy at star-level magnitude would be easily shrugged off. However, if the ship is somehow gaining energy by absorbing it from energy-based attacks, then it would be possible to shut down the ship's energy-converting transformers by overloading them with repeated and rapid pulses (which would, again, involve rapid voltage spikes and sags, straining the electrical elements). With enough persistence, it would be quite possible to burn out the power regulation circuitry from the high electrical stress.

It's like taking a computer's power supply, plugging it into one side of a high-voltage switch, and plugging the other end of the switch directly into a power grid, then flipping the switch over and over again; eventually, things inside that power supply will start to fail spectacularly. By the same analogue, I imagine it would be trivial to blow a few fuses.

True. however, we're assuming he and/or the other RPer know this. Otherwise one of them will be like, "Bitch! I just flew my ship through a fuckmothering star! What's a few guns going to do to it?!" I can see this devolving rapidly. (then again I'm a pessimist and a cynic. I just assuming everything will be a gagglefuck)

[YellowApple]

True, a single pulse of energy at star-level magnitude would be easily shrugged off. However, if the ship is somehow gaining energy by absorbing it from energy-based attacks, then it would be possible to shut down the ship's energy-converting transformers by overloading them with repeated and rapid pulses (which would, again, involve rapid voltage spikes and sags, straining the electrical elements). With enough persistence, it would be quite possible to burn out the power regulation circuitry from the high electrical stress.

It's like taking a computer's power supply, plugging it into one side of a high-voltage switch, and plugging the other end of the switch directly into a power grid, then flipping the switch over and over again; eventually, things inside that power supply will start to fail spectacularly. By the same analogue, I imagine it would be trivial to blow a few fuses.

True. however, we're assuming he and/or the other RPer know this. Otherwise one of them will be like, "Bitch! I just flew my ship through a fuckmothering star! What's a few guns going to do to it?!" I can see this devolving rapidly. (then again I'm a pessimist and a cynic. I just assuming everything will be a gagglefuck)

Your assumptions are certainly not unfounded.

[Oppressorion]

One flaw: If your ship goes FTL so the star does not crush/kill/melt/devour/ect..., then it is also not in Real Space to affect the target when using it as a torpedo. If it does not go FTL, then the star should get it before the vehicle exits the effects of the environment. You did initially state it was to travel just under C (0.99, I believe) but if it is FTL then it would be traveling Faster Than Light (C).

When used as torpedoes, the Drive is run in reverse on the other side of the star, slowing it just below FTL velocity but with enough momentum to make it unavoidable.

Everything seems to be in order with that. Sadly, the end result is that DEWs would have little effect on this hull. Maybe particle beams would, but most DEWs would get absorbed by this particular strain of handwavium. Thermonuclear warheads (being essentially small stars) would also not be able to do much. KEWs would probably be fine though. Maybe chemical high explosive as well.I can hear people calling godmod on that.

True, a single pulse of energy at star-level magnitude would be easily shrugged off. However, if the ship is somehow gaining energy by absorbing it from energy-based attacks, then it would be possible to shut down the ship's energy-converting transformers by overloading them with repeated and rapid pulses (which would, again, involve rapid voltage spikes and sags, straining the electrical elements). With enough persistence, it would be quite possible to burn out the power regulation circuitry from the high electrical stress.

It's like taking a computer's power supply, plugging it into one side of a high-voltage switch, and plugging the other end of the switch directly into a power grid, then flipping the switch over and over again; eventually, things inside that power supply will start to fail spectacularly. By the same analogue, I imagine it would be trivial to blow a few fuses.

The energy collector can only used for FTL travel - the Sun Drive has super-duper handwavium that converts heat into acceleration. However, it now only works on radiated heat, like from a star - a hot object will just punch right through it. The Drive is normally turned off outside of propulsion, anyway - it requires a precise feed of energy that increases on a certain exponential curve, with narrow tolerances. Too much too fast, and it burns out.

[SquareDisc City]

Everything seems to be in order with that. Sadly, the end result is that DEWs would have little effect on this hull. Maybe particle beams would, but most DEWs would get absorbed by this particular strain of handwavium. Thermonuclear warheads (being essentially small stars) would also not be able to do much. KEWs would probably be fine though. Maybe chemical high explosive as well.I can hear people calling godmod on that.

I'm not so sure. Sun-like stars do not emit much in gamma rays, which are popular for weapons, and even normal lasers may well produce a greater light intensity (I haven't run the numbers). The surface temperature of a star is also considerably lower than that of a nuclear or antimatter explosion. Add to that the possibility I intended to make clearer earlier, that the ship might actually take damage when using its Sun Drive but the damage is considered slight enough to be worth it, just like how real engines wear with use, and the ship would not be unreasonably immune to energy weapons though it might have above-average resistance.

[Balrogga]

One flaw: If your ship goes FTL so the star does not crush/kill/melt/devour/ect..., then it is also not in Real Space to affect the target when using it as a torpedo. If it does not go FTL, then the star should get it before the vehicle exits the effects of the environment. You did initially state it was to travel just under C (0.99, I believe) but if it is FTL then it would be traveling Faster Than Light (C).

When used as torpedoes, the Drive is run in reverse on the other side of the star, slowing it just below FTL velocity but with enough momentum to make it unavoidable.

Typically you need the same amount of energy to slow the ship down that you needed to accelerate it. There is no drag in space and since you are FTL you cannot use gravity. The equal action/reaction thing referred in the Law of Thermodynamics. Once you are through the star and have accelerated you no longer have your fuel/energy source to power the reverse of your drive, you are no longer in a sun.

There are still flaws in your description the other player could try to pick at until your attack unravels.

[Oppressorion]

Typically you need the same amount of energy to slow the ship down that you needed to accelerate it. There is no drag in space and since you are FTL you cannot use gravity. The equal action/reaction thing referred in the Law of Thermodynamics. Once you are through the star and have accelerated you no longer have your fuel/energy source to power the reverse of your drive, you are no longer in a sun.

There are still flaws in your description the other player could try to pick at until your attack unravels.

I just explained how that works - the ship goes intangible, passes through the star's core, and collects the heat from the same star on the other side. It then uses that heat to accelerate in reverse and slow down to STL velocity.

[YellowApple]

True, a single pulse of energy at star-level magnitude would be easily shrugged off. However, if the ship is somehow gaining energy by absorbing it from energy-based attacks, then it would be possible to shut down the ship's energy-converting transformers by overloading them with repeated and rapid pulses (which would, again, involve rapid voltage spikes and sags, straining the electrical elements). With enough persistence, it would be quite possible to burn out the power regulation circuitry from the high electrical stress.

It's like taking a computer's power supply, plugging it into one side of a high-voltage switch, and plugging the other end of the switch directly into a power grid, then flipping the switch over and over again; eventually, things inside that power supply will start to fail spectacularly. By the same analogue, I imagine it would be trivial to blow a few fuses.

The energy collector can only used for FTL travel - the Sun Drive has super-duper handwavium that converts heat into acceleration. However, it now only works on radiated heat, like from a star - a hot object will just punch right through it. The Drive is normally turned off outside of propulsion, anyway - it requires a precise feed of energy that increases on a certain exponential curve, with narrow tolerances. Too much too fast, and it burns out.

So now you basically have a fancily-named solar panel for a hull?

[Oppressorion]

So now you basically have a fancily-named solar panel for a hull?

No, I have a SCIENCE! heat collector for a prow.

[Sertian]

The problem though is that you'll be traveling faster as you move into the second sun than you did entering the first, you might not have enough time to capture the energy to slow down.

[Oppressorion]

The problem though is that you'll be travelling faster as you move into the second sun than you did entering the first, you might not have enough time to capture the energy to slow down.

Nah, piloting is computer controlled, so reflex times are not an issue. The trick was calibrating for time: collection has to begin early enough so that sufficient energy is collected before exiting the star, but not so early that the ship materialises deep inside the star and vaporises.