Advice Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[SquareDisc City]

Ularn, I would love to see how even a rocket assisted guided munition could analyze incoming data, adjust it's course and then make that course correction when moving at %95 the speed of light.

From a computing point of view it's not that difficult. Light goes three feet per nanosecond, and a 3 GHz processor does three operations every nanosecond. Even factoring in the three-fold time dilation, the projectile's moving mere meters while the processor calculates its adjustment, especially since I think I can fairly claim much faster than 3 GHz in FT.

Whether the thrusters can change their output so quickly is another matter of course, but heck, even if they take milliseconds to adjust, a million times slower than the computer, a thousand km is still short compared to the likely distances of engagement.

Second, how much overkill do you people really need. I mean Jesus Christ the amount of energy you're dickpumping into your ordinance means you have giant testicle ships, filled with muscle bound sailors no doubt, which are absolutely bristling with planet crackers.

I just surrender to all of you now. Clearly my technology cannot compete with your light speed balls of neutron depleted tungsturanium.


I'm not trying to tell you how to play, I just think weapons should be within logical limits.

Sufficient overkill to keep up with the magichypermatter-powered Star Wars ships, perhaps, which I think I do achieve. (SW tech isn't so common on NS from what I've seen, but it's common elsewhere where I designed my tech for.) And I too agree that there should be limits, I just picked the fairly high limits imposed by mass-energy equivalence.

[The Akasha Colony]

Ularn, I would love to see how even a rocket assisted guided munition could analyze incoming data, adjust it's course and then make that course correction when moving at %95 the speed of light.

Second, how much overkill do you people really need. I mean Jesus Christ the amount of energy you're dickpumping into your ordinance means you have giant testicle ships, filled with muscle bound sailors no doubt, which are absolutely bristling with planet crackers.

I just surrender to all of you now. Clearly my technology cannot compete with your light speed balls of neutron depleted tungsturanium.


I'm not trying to tell you how to play, I just think weapons should be within logical limits.

The problem is that there aren't really any logical limits once even the slightest hint of soft technology becomes involved. Once we start letting FTL and shields in, or assume that a warship can be even reasonably maneuverable when plated with enough armor to resist attacks (which some people use as an alternative to shields), then the idea of logical limits becomes elastic.

Logically if everyone else is using fusion-grade weaponry, then whoever gets to antimatter-grade weaponry first gets an enormous advantage. Antimatter being multiple magnitude-orders more efficient than fusion, a ship with antimatter-powered shields would be able to shrug off attacks from fusion-powered warships without much trouble at all, negating whatever perceived increases in vulnerability accompany the use of such fuels. Hence, opponents would be forced to adopt antimatter as well, rendering them just as vulnerable, or leave themselves helpless before their enemies.

[Daskoxian]

Ularn, I would love to see how even a rocket assisted guided munition could analyze incoming data, adjust it's course and then make that course correction when moving at %95 the speed of light.

Second, how much overkill do you people really need. I mean Jesus Christ the amount of energy you're dickpumping into your ordinance means you have giant testicle ships, filled with muscle bound sailors no doubt, which are absolutely bristling with planet crackers.

I just surrender to all of you now. Clearly my technology cannot compete with your light speed balls of neutron depleted tungsturanium.


I'm not trying to tell you how to play, I just think weapons should be within logical limits.

Well, nations that just colonized their moon or whatever are usually less advanced and full of "planet-crackers" than nations that have colonized half the galaxy or whatever.

[Avenio]

The problem is that there aren't really any logical limits once even the slightest hint of soft technology becomes involved. Once we start letting FTL and shields in, or assume that a warship can be even reasonably maneuverable when plated with enough armor to resist attacks (which some people use as an alternative to shields), then the idea of logical limits becomes elastic.

Logically if everyone else is using fusion-grade weaponry, then whoever gets to antimatter-grade weaponry first gets an enormous advantage. Antimatter being multiple magnitude-orders more efficient than fusion, a ship with antimatter-powered shields would be able to shrug off attacks from fusion-powered warships without much trouble at all, negating whatever perceived increases in vulnerability accompany the use of such fuels. Hence, opponents would be forced to adopt antimatter as well, rendering them just as vulnerable, or leave themselves helpless before their enemies.

And if you were writing a novel then depicting the scaling of weapons like you describe wouldn't be a problem in the least, since you could depict the power of one's vessels varying accordingly.

But this is a roleplaying forum, and thus the principle of equivalence comes into play, whereby everyone's technology is roughly equal to each other's, unless otherwise OOC'ly agreed upon. So while having ships that can fire munitions at very high fraction of c is perfectly acceptable, one also has to accept that said weapons are not, fundamentally, more powerful than anyone else's, and it is likely that scenarios will come up whereby said RKV-capable ships will find themselves taking on unshielded battlestars that can shrug off multiple shots at 0.7c. Which, as one might imagine, will get a bit silly.

Trailers isn't really talking about logical in the sense of a strictly-defined scale of power according to the laws of physics, from what I gather, he's talking about a logical limit in terms of the parameters of the setting in which NSFT takes place. Because otherwise, as I noted above, the system starts to break down.

[Trailers]

The problem is that there aren't really any logical limits once even the slightest hint of soft technology becomes involved. Once we start letting FTL and shields in, or assume that a warship can be even reasonably maneuverable when plated with enough armor to resist attacks (which some people use as an alternative to shields), then the idea of logical limits becomes elastic.

Logically if everyone else is using fusion-grade weaponry, then whoever gets to antimatter-grade weaponry first gets an enormous advantage. Antimatter being multiple magnitude-orders more efficient than fusion, a ship with antimatter-powered shields would be able to shrug off attacks from fusion-powered warships without much trouble at all, negating whatever perceived increases in vulnerability accompany the use of such fuels. Hence, opponents would be forced to adopt antimatter as well, rendering them just as vulnerable, or leave themselves helpless before their enemies.

And if you were writing a novel then depicting the scaling of weapons like you describe wouldn't be a problem in the least, since you could depict the power of one's vessels varying accordingly.

But this is a roleplaying forum, and thus the principle of equivalence comes into play, whereby everyone's technology is roughly equal to each other's, unless otherwise OOC'ly agreed upon. So while having ships that can fire munitions at very high fraction of c is perfectly acceptable, one also has to accept that said weapons are not, fundamentally, more powerful than anyone else's, and it is likely that scenarios will come up whereby said RKV-capable ships will find themselves taking on unshielded battlestars that can shrug off multiple shots at 0.7c. Which, as one might imagine, will get a bit silly.

Trailers isn't really talking about logical in the sense of a strictly-defined scale of power according to the laws of physics, from what I gather, he's talking about a logical limit in terms of the parameters of the setting in which NSFT takes place. Because otherwise, as I noted above, the system starts to break down.

I'm not looking to tell other people how to play, I can't stress that enough, I just think people absently ascribe "Oh, well, we shoot KKVs at .95c" to this one aspect of their weapon systems and then are done with the subject without considering just how much damage potential that has. I just dislike being forced to describe my ships as being able to survive a hit from such a projectile, because then I have to have some handwavey shields in place. I know my playstyle doesn't fit everyone else's, and thats fine, I'm just saying we could get the desired results with lower speed projectiles.

[G-Tech Corporation]

And if you were writing a novel then depicting the scaling of weapons like you describe wouldn't be a problem in the least, since you could depict the power of one's vessels varying accordingly.

But this is a roleplaying forum, and thus the principle of equivalence comes into play, whereby everyone's technology is roughly equal to each other's, unless otherwise OOC'ly agreed upon. So while having ships that can fire munitions at very high fraction of c is perfectly acceptable, one also has to accept that said weapons are not, fundamentally, more powerful than anyone else's, and it is likely that scenarios will come up whereby said RKV-capable ships will find themselves taking on unshielded battlestars that can shrug off multiple shots at 0.7c. Which, as one might imagine, will get a bit silly.

Trailers isn't really talking about logical in the sense of a strictly-defined scale of power according to the laws of physics, from what I gather, he's talking about a logical limit in terms of the parameters of the setting in which NSFT takes place. Because otherwise, as I noted above, the system starts to break down.

I'm not looking to tell other people how to play, I can't stress that enough, I just think people absently ascribe "Oh, well, we shoot KKVs at .95c" to this one aspect of their weapon systems and then are done with the subject without considering just how much damage potential that has. I just dislike being forced to describe my ships as being able to survive a hit from such a projectile, because then I have to have some handwavey shields in place. I know my playstyle doesn't fit everyone else's, and thats fine, I'm just saying we could get the desired results with lower speed projectiles.

Rest at ease Trailers. Afaik, no serious FT RPers run around with any projectiles going even a significant percentage of the speed of light. My MACs fir at between 5 and 8% of c, and I think that's pretty much par for the course.

[Trailers]

Good, I can sleep with the ancestors then, knowing my work in this world is done.

[SquareDisc City]

If it bothers you, think of it this way. Particle cannons fire at as near as makes no difference the speed of light. Now why does it matter whether the atoms I'm firing at you are sharing electrons with each other or not?

Above all else, my attitude is as follows:

1) Energy is what counts. Whether it's a laser or a particle cannon or an RKV is just flavour, what matters is whether it's low, moderate, or high yield, and whether it does many or few shots per unit time.
2) Absolute figures don't matter, what matters is relative power. If you claim the main weapon on your biggest ship yields a megaton, I'm not going to go in an RP, I'm going to recognise it as doing serious damage when it hits. If you claim your point-defense yields a petaton, I'm not going to RP my capital ships dropping like flies from it.

(Actually absolute figures do matter on occasion, like if you set off a bomb above a city and want to know the blast radius. But they aren't important for ship-to-ship combat, in large part because degrees of sci-fi hardness vary.)

[Sertian]

If it bothers you, think of it this way. Particle cannons fire at as near as makes no difference the speed of light. Now why does it matter whether the atoms I'm firing at you are sharing electrons with each other or not?

Above all else, my attitude is as follows:

1) Energy is what counts. Whether it's a laser or a particle cannon or an RKV is just flavour, what matters is whether it's low, moderate, or high yield, and whether it does many or few shots per unit time.
2) Absolute figures don't matter, what matters is relative power. If you claim the main weapon on your biggest ship yields a megaton, I'm not going to go in an RP, I'm going to recognise it as doing serious damage when it hits. If you claim your point-defense yields a petaton, I'm not going to RP my capital ships dropping like flies from it.

(Actually absolute figures do matter on occasion, like if you set off a bomb above a city and want to know the blast radius. But they aren't important for ship-to-ship combat, in large part because degrees of sci-fi hardness vary.)

The difference is the relative mass. Particle beams, even at their heaviest, aren't likely to weigh more than a few fractions of a gram. RKVs tend to weigh in the kilogram range.

Edit: For example, I'll use my own Longinus Plasma Accelerator Weapon System (Because acronyms are fun); OOCly described as a ludicrously powerful particle beam system given the Sertian's niche as a technology and civilization between normal and 'eldritch horror' (because really, its not a one rung difference!). Said weapon system can fire in one-tenth second bursts, but its most damaging because the weapon system can handle long beam 'rakes' of up to 15 seconds, delivering 6x10^16 Joules over one second (which means, every second you've got the entire energy output of Tunguska or half the output of a city killer nuke confined into a roughly half meter wide beam of death coming right for you). For the one second burst, it has an original particle mass off 0.055 grams (which is a LOT for a particle beam). After relativistic effects, a one-second long beam has a relativistic mass of 700g.

Now imagine if I started at one-kilogram there, and you can quickly see just HOW it matters.

[Ularn]

Question; would a high-gravity planet have a denser atmosphere?

Because I'm thinking of taking one of my existing high-gravity planets (about 150% of Earth's) and saying that some of the local fauna has evolved big bladders full of lighter than air gas (e.g. helium or, more probably, hydrogen since it could probably be produced organically) which allows them to float. Since the planet in question is also the homeworld of my resident squid-people/starfish aliens, it would seem like evolution gave creatures there tentacles like it gave earth creatures legs, so the animals in question will look like this.

I know it's feasible anyway even in an Earth atmosphere (because hey; zeppelins) but I'm wondering if a denser surrounding atmosphere would make it more practical and if such an atmosphere would be more likely to appear on a high-gravity world?

EDIT: Also, what does everyone thing such a creature's behaviour would be like? Just as on Earth the majority of mammals tend towards som sort of four-limbed, five fingered skeletal structure, most of the creatures on Pharanon, (the planet in question) have some kind of six-tentacled structure. I was thinking these creatures might be whale-sized, with two bulbous bladders filled with gas. Its front two tentacles have withered into vestigial limbs like a T-Rex's arms, while the rearmost ones have grown wider in order to flap like gentle wings and produce forward motion. The ones in the middle remain pretty long, for the purposes of plucking space-cows out of fields for the munching. The skywhale would spend most of its life in the high atmosphere and only drift to the ground when its gas bladders grow empty. There it grabs some nearby wildlife, munches it, and its digestive system takes the hydrogen from its prey's carcass to refill the bladders while it poops out the rest. Once it's eaten enough, the skywhale will drift up to join its fellows again, out of range of its prey. Then again, they might well be too big and slow to be real carnivores, and might be more likely to survive on a constant diet of small insects from the air like how whales eat krill and plankton and such.

Truthfully I just like the idea of living zeppelins fishing for rather confused space cattle with their tentacles. There may also have been a period in the medieval history of the defa (the local sapient race) where they rode them like horses or highly combustible elephants, shooting flaming arrows at each other while bombing the enemy castles!

[SquareDisc City]

The few worlds with solid surfaces we've studied show little correlation between gravity and atmospheric density. There needs to be enough gravity to stop the atmosphere escaping, and lighter molecules move faster and can thus escape from larger worlds than heavier ones. However even Titan can keep hold of nitrogen, the lightest likely atmospheric gas after hydrogen and helium, though this is partly because it's cold. Beyond that, however, other factors seem more important.

[Ularn]

The few worlds with solid surfaces we've studied show little correlation between gravity and atmospheric density. There needs to be enough gravity to stop the atmosphere escaping, and lighter molecules move faster and can thus escape from larger worlds than heavier ones. However even Titan can keep hold of nitrogen, the lightest likely atmospheric gas after hydrogen and helium, though this is partly because it's cold. Beyond that, however, other factors seem more important.

Okay, so gravity conditions are probably more or less irrelevant as far as my flying whales are concerned. Gonna do it anyway, but it's just good to know these things.

[Sertian]

Well, the more gravity the lighter elements can be retained, although I don't know if 150% Earth's gravity will be enough to retain hydrogen. If so, it could lead to hydrogen being more dominant in the atmosphere, and thus an explanation for why its so readily available for for production and use by space whales.

[Ularn]

Well, the more gravity the lighter elements can be retained, although I don't know if 150% Earth's gravity will be enough to retain hydrogen. If so, it could lead to hydrogen being more dominant in the atmosphere, and thus an explanation for why its so readily available for for production and use by space whales.

There's hydrogen in our bodies, bound up in the hydrocarbons which form our proteins. With the right enzymes, I'm pretty sure the hydrogen could be extracted through digestion and fed into the bladders, though you might need to eat a lot of cows to fill them. I wasn't planning on having the whales siphon it straight out of the air as for one thing, they would be unable to reach it. Though less dense than the surrounding atmosphere, their bodies would still be more dense than hydrogen because of the weight of the whale itself, so it could never actually float up to whatever layer of the atmosphere the hydrogen was gathering at.

[Sertian]

I suppose so, I was referencing more that free molecular hydrogen, as created by the whales, wouldn't escape. But then again, free molecular hydrogen likely wouldn't last long in an atmosphere. :3

I'm not sure on the specifics of atmosphere science and what not, so it was just an idle idea that might have helped that came to mind.

[Radilus IV]

Question; would a high-gravity planet have a denser atmosphere?

Because I'm thinking of taking one of my existing high-gravity planets (about 150% of Earth's) and saying that some of the local fauna has evolved big bladders full of lighter than air gas (e.g. helium or, more probably, hydrogen since it could probably be produced organically) which allows them to float. Since the planet in question is also the homeworld of my resident squid-people/starfish aliens, it would seem like evolution gave creatures there tentacles like it gave earth creatures legs, so the animals in question will look like this.

I know it's feasible anyway even in an Earth atmosphere (because hey; zeppelins) but I'm wondering if a denser surrounding atmosphere would make it more practical and if such an atmosphere would be more likely to appear on a high-gravity world?

EDIT: Also, what does everyone thing such a creature's behaviour would be like? Just as on Earth the majority of mammals tend towards som sort of four-limbed, five fingered skeletal structure, most of the creatures on Pharanon, (the planet in question) have some kind of six-tentacled structure. I was thinking these creatures might be whale-sized, with two bulbous bladders filled with gas. Its front two tentacles have withered into vestigial limbs like a T-Rex's arms, while the rearmost ones have grown wider in order to flap like gentle wings and produce forward motion. The ones in the middle remain pretty long, for the purposes of plucking space-cows out of fields for the munching. The skywhale would spend most of its life in the high atmosphere and only drift to the ground when its gas bladders grow empty. There it grabs some nearby wildlife, munches it, and its digestive system takes the hydrogen from its prey's carcass to refill the bladders while it poops out the rest. Once it's eaten enough, the skywhale will drift up to join its fellows again, out of range of its prey. Then again, they might well be too big and slow to be real carnivores, and might be more likely to survive on a constant diet of small insects from the air like how whales eat krill and plankton and such.

Truthfully I just like the idea of living zeppelins fishing for rather confused space cattle with their tentacles. There may also have been a period in the medieval history of the defa (the local sapient race) where they rode them like horses or highly combustible elephants, shooting flaming arrows at each other while bombing the enemy castles!

Venus is smaller than Earth an it's atmosphere is a hundred times heavier. It's more about the composition of the atmosphere though, and there's a reason gas giants contain much different elements in their atmospheres than terrestrial worlds, as covered.

And back in the Jolt days I RPed this nation as a very similar race of beings who live in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant, using gas 'balloons' in their bodies to change altitude and suchlike. Radilans appeared more like manta rays with multi-digit tentacles though. I guess you're talking about non-sentient animals though, and your description of them sounds interesting.

[Yes Im Biop]

So. What chu think?

The Omega's are elite Draconian unit's of Biop's special forces. Using Mechanized armor to enhance the Dragon's already powerful natural abilities.

Each Suite is custom made for each Omega. Their jobs varying from Assault troops to stealth to EOD Jobs.

The newest model of Exo is based around max protection, Sacrificing mobility and speed for near tank like protection and immense carrying capabilities. Being custom to each user the sizes, armor thickness, and even color vary vastly but the Display model is a base average for all suites.

Standing at exactly Seven feet (2.13 Meters) and 400 lbs (181.43 kg) the exo suite is armored by the same plates used in the B.S.S. Chimera, allowing fairly light armor and excellent protection capabilities. At their thinnest (under the arm's) the plates are 3 inches thick (7.62 cm) At their thickest (Breast plates) They are nearly 12 inches (30.48 cm) Capible of whistanding up to 25mm armor piercing rounds and blocking nearly all shrapnel and explosive over pressure.

Powered by a miniaturized experimental fusion reactor the exo suite can remain functional in for hundreds of years. The abundance of energy also allows them to use many weapons usually only available to Vehicles and encamped units such as heavy Rail rifles, Miniguns and Laser and Plasma based weaponry.

Built to be used in any condition the Exo can perform at peak condition in event of NBC Conditions and is hardened to resist the EMP of close nuclear bombardment. The suite will also function Underwater and in space, special variants are made specifically for theses uses.

The advanced servos and piston's in the joint's and running along the limb's allows the user to easily lift weights up to 3 ton's without straining themselves or the suite's mechanics.

Stealth variant's of this suite sacrifice protection and raw power for many sound, thermal, and visible dampers. Using soft tones created on a second by second basis by the on board A.I. to counter most noises the suite can make, and failing to completely negate will severely dampen them. Also many thermal dampers including a total vacuum between the reactor and the outside plating, reflective coating's and an overall less conductive composition of the armored plates. Visible dampers include a active camouflage system that uses thousands of micro cameras on the suite to allow it to take on a near perfect image of whatever is in front of, behind, and to the sides of it.



Coined the Devastator Suite by Civilians and Soldiers who have seen the armored Dragons in combat It is the ultimate in Biopian Infantry.

[Avenio]

There's hydrogen in our bodies, bound up in the hydrocarbons which form our proteins. With the right enzymes, I'm pretty sure the hydrogen could be extracted through digestion and fed into the bladders, though you might need to eat a lot of cows to fill them.

Even better, there are organelles that some ciliates and fungi have called hydrogenosomes that produce molecular hydrogen as a product of its electron transport chain;

The hydrogenosome, in this case the variety located in the organism Trichomonas vaginalis, replaces the mitochondria that is normally found in all eukaryotes as the primary driver of respiration in the cell.

Unfortunately the process of respiration the hydrogenosome utilizes is anaerobic; it, like T. vaginalis itself, can't function properly in an oxygen-rich environment - from what I gather, oxidative stress on the hydrogenosome tends to be too high and it lyses.

Which means, depending on how closely you want to follow biology, may give your air whales a reason why they have to stay high up in the atmosphere - their status as obligate anaerobes means that the lower, presumably oxygen-rich layer would be toxic to them.

[New Amerik]

Hmmm...I must admit, I have a somewhat complicated question here, not in content but in terms of how it's related to this thread.

I'm trying to help flesh out a PMT/ST nationstate's means of producing energy, but the nationstate itself is not my actual nation here - it's on another website, part of a whole sort of 'collective world' thing kinda like Earth 2 I guess? And one of the ideas for their usage of energy was basically power plants that utilized biochemical means and geobacter strains in order to help produce or augment electrical power output for surrounding buildings. I've read a bit about it, and while I must admit I'm no biological specialist I thought parts of it seemed perhaps useful... The only problem is I've realized I have no way to actually adequately explain how exactly they work and their related development within the historical constrains of the nationstate without doing something like copy-pasting, and that would just be kinda overly text without much practical tie-ins.

So my question is: Is there anybody on this thread who knows about creation or manipulation of electrical power via biological organisms and could work with me via TGs or otherwise to help break it down into something that could be used for the other nationstate? I could give some details of the overall setting and nationstate if needed if open forum discussion was requested, but otherwise I think it'd be complicated enough to require a personal conversation.

[Ularn]

So. What chu think?

The Omega's are elite Draconian unit's of Biop's special forces. Using Mechanized armor to enhance the Dragon's already powerful natural abilities.

Each Suite is custom made for each Omega. Their jobs varying from Assault troops to stealth to EOD Jobs.

The newest model of Exo is based around max protection, Sacrificing mobility and speed for near tank like protection and immense carrying capabilities. Being custom to each user the sizes, armor thickness, and even color vary vastly but the Display model is a base average for all suites.

Standing at exactly Seven feet (2.13 Meters) and 400 lbs (181.43 kg) the exo suite is armored by the same plates used in the B.S.S. Chimera, allowing fairly light armor and excellent protection capabilities. At their thinnest (under the arm's) the plates are 3 inches thick (7.62 cm) At their thickest (Breast plates) They are nearly 12 inches (30.48 cm) Capible of whistanding up to 25mm armor piercing rounds and blocking nearly all shrapnel and explosive over pressure.

Powered by a miniaturized experimental fusion reactor the exo suite can remain functional in for hundreds of years. The abundance of energy also allows them to use many weapons usually only available to Vehicles and encamped units such as heavy Rail rifles, Miniguns and Laser and Plasma based weaponry.

Built to be used in any condition the Exo can perform at peak condition in event of NBC Conditions and is hardened to resist the EMP of close nuclear bombardment. The suite will also function Underwater and in space, special variants are made specifically for theses uses.

The advanced servos and piston's in the joint's and running along the limb's allows the user to easily lift weights up to 3 ton's without straining themselves or the suite's mechanics.

Stealth variant's of this suite sacrifice protection and raw power for many sound, thermal, and visible dampers. Using soft tones created on a second by second basis by the on board A.I. to counter most noises the suite can make, and failing to completely negate will severely dampen them. Also many thermal dampers including a total vacuum between the reactor and the outside plating, reflective coating's and an overall less conductive composition of the armored plates. Visible dampers include a active camouflage system that uses thousands of micro cameras on the suite to allow it to take on a near perfect image of whatever is in front of, behind, and to the sides of it.

(Image)

Coined the Devastator Suite by Civilians and Soldiers who have seen the armored Dragons in combat It is the ultimate in Biopian Infantry.

You seem to be confusing special forces with elite infantry. The former do covert operations; stealth, infiltration, assassination and all that good stuff, whereas the latter are basically what you described; normal soldier stuff, but better. And neither group's really likely to be doing much Explosive Ordinance Disposal. Demolitions? Yes, but not EOD.

There's hydrogen in our bodies, bound up in the hydrocarbons which form our proteins. With the right enzymes, I'm pretty sure the hydrogen could be extracted through digestion and fed into the bladders, though you might need to eat a lot of cows to fill them.

Even better, there are organelles that some ciliates and fungi have called hydrogenosomes that produce molecular hydrogen as a product of its electron transport chain;

The hydrogenosome, in this case the variety located in the organism Trichomonas vaginalis, replaces the mitochondria that is normally found in all eukaryotes as the primary driver of respiration in the cell.

Unfortunately the process of respiration the hydrogenosome utilizes is anaerobic; it, like T. vaginalis itself, can't function properly in an oxygen-rich environment - from what I gather, oxidative stress on the hydrogenosome tends to be too high and it lyses.

Which means, depending on how closely you want to follow biology, may give your air whales a reason why they have to stay high up in the atmosphere - their status as obligate anaerobes means that the lower, presumably oxygen-rich layer would be toxic to them.

That's really handy. I'll have a think about if or how I might implement it but in the mean time thanks!

[Yes Im Biop]

So. What chu think?

The Omega's are elite Draconian unit's of Biop's special forces. Using Mechanized armor to enhance the Dragon's already powerful natural abilities.

Each Suite is custom made for each Omega. Their jobs varying from Assault troops to stealth to EOD Jobs.

The newest model of Exo is based around max protection, Sacrificing mobility and speed for near tank like protection and immense carrying capabilities. Being custom to each user the sizes, armor thickness, and even color vary vastly but the Display model is a base average for all suites.

Standing at exactly Seven feet (2.13 Meters) and 400 lbs (181.43 kg) the exo suite is armored by the same plates used in the B.S.S. Chimera, allowing fairly light armor and excellent protection capabilities. At their thinnest (under the arm's) the plates are 3 inches thick (7.62 cm) At their thickest (Breast plates) They are nearly 12 inches (30.48 cm) Capible of whistanding up to 25mm armor piercing rounds and blocking nearly all shrapnel and explosive over pressure.

Powered by a miniaturized experimental fusion reactor the exo suite can remain functional in for hundreds of years. The abundance of energy also allows them to use many weapons usually only available to Vehicles and encamped units such as heavy Rail rifles, Miniguns and Laser and Plasma based weaponry.

Built to be used in any condition the Exo can perform at peak condition in event of NBC Conditions and is hardened to resist the EMP of close nuclear bombardment. The suite will also function Underwater and in space, special variants are made specifically for theses uses.

The advanced servos and piston's in the joint's and running along the limb's allows the user to easily lift weights up to 3 ton's without straining themselves or the suite's mechanics.

Stealth variant's of this suite sacrifice protection and raw power for many sound, thermal, and visible dampers. Using soft tones created on a second by second basis by the on board A.I. to counter most noises the suite can make, and failing to completely negate will severely dampen them. Also many thermal dampers including a total vacuum between the reactor and the outside plating, reflective coating's and an overall less conductive composition of the armored plates. Visible dampers include a active camouflage system that uses thousands of micro cameras on the suite to allow it to take on a near perfect image of whatever is in front of, behind, and to the sides of it.

(Image)

Coined the Devastator Suite by Civilians and Soldiers who have seen the armored Dragons in combat It is the ultimate in Biopian Infantry.

You seem to be confusing special forces with elite infantry. The former do covert operations; stealth, infiltration, assassination and all that good stuff, whereas the latter are basically what you described; normal soldier stuff, but better. And neither group's really likely to be doing much Explosive Ordinance Disposal. Demolitions? Yes, but not EOD.

Where do the All of the Above fit in?

[Ularn]

You seem to be confusing special forces with elite infantry. The former do covert operations; stealth, infiltration, assassination and all that good stuff, whereas the latter are basically what you described; normal soldier stuff, but better. And neither group's really likely to be doing much Explosive Ordinance Disposal. Demolitions? Yes, but not EOD.

Where do the All of the Above fit in?

Doesn't exist; a trooper cannot behave like a walking tank while still being able to meet the requirements of a special forces unit or commando. When you modify a soldier's training or equipment to improve performance in one area, you inevitably sacrifice performance in another. Adding lots of armour increases survivability but also makes you bigger, noisier, slower and generally less suitable for tasks not involving open combat, like infiltration.

[Yes Im Biop]

Where do the All of the Above fit in?

Doesn't exist; a trooper cannot behave like a walking tank while still being able to meet the requirements of a special forces unit or commando.

SO I can basically call em whatever I want. The suites are basically each one of a kind for their job. Be it a Walking tank or a shadow.

[The Akasha Colony]

Doesn't exist; a trooper cannot behave like a walking tank while still being able to meet the requirements of a special forces unit or commando.

SO I can basically call em whatever I want. The suites are basically each one of a kind for their job. Be it a Walking tank or a shadow.

He's not talking about the suits, he's talking about the soldiers in the suits. You can't train and equip people to fight a conventional field battle in ultra-heavy armor as well as perform ultra-covert insertions in light stealth suits. It's the same reason why militaries give specialty training to their soldiers. Highly-trained special forces units will usually have very basic training in most areas since they operate without support, but they are no substitute for an actual group of dedicated EOD or field battle personnel. For a given length of training, adding in additional skill sets inevitably results in taking time from others, so every week you spend training these troops in EOD is a week not spent training them in infiltration, and if the equipment varies so much, you now also have to devote additional time to training them on the different equipment types, which isn't necessarily cross-applicable (I'd wager movement techniques in heavy armor are a bit different than in a stealth suit).

Although on the matter of the suits, if the thinnest the armor gets is 3 inches around the arms, then it'll be rather uncomfortable, since the soldiers can't bring their arms to their sides.

[YellowApple]

Hmmm...I must admit, I have a somewhat complicated question here, not in content but in terms of how it's related to this thread.

I'm trying to help flesh out a PMT/ST nationstate's means of producing energy, but the nationstate itself is not my actual nation here - it's on another website, part of a whole sort of 'collective world' thing kinda like Earth 2 I guess? And one of the ideas for their usage of energy was basically power plants that utilized biochemical means and geobacter strains in order to help produce or augment electrical power output for surrounding buildings. I've read a bit about it, and while I must admit I'm no biological specialist I thought parts of it seemed perhaps useful... The only problem is I've realized I have no way to actually adequately explain how exactly they work and their related development within the historical constrains of the nationstate without doing something like copy-pasting, and that would just be kinda overly text without much practical tie-ins.

So my question is: Is there anybody on this thread who knows about creation or manipulation of electrical power via biological organisms and could work with me via TGs or otherwise to help break it down into something that could be used for the other nationstate? I could give some details of the overall setting and nationstate if needed if open forum discussion was requested, but otherwise I think it'd be complicated enough to require a personal conversation.

Well, the most straightforward means would be to harness the thermal energy generated by biological processes. Said energy - at least in oxygen-breathing organisms - is produced via a sub-process of metabolism called catabolism, which (to keep things simple) takes big molecules like fats, proteins, and complex carbohydrates and turns them into waste products (like carbon dioxide) and free energy, either in the form of ATP or as waste heat (the latter being what you'd be harnessing).

If you really wanted to optimize your energy-producing organisms, you could start breeding monocellular organisms that minimize the amount of ATP created relative to waste heat. This would, however, reduce the ability of cells to reproduce, since they'd have no energy to do so (ATP serves as an energy transport, so less of it means less energy being transported to the cellular structures needing energy). Thus, such an optimization should be done via hormonal control, if possible.

Some recommended reading from Wikipedia:

Metabolism
Energy metabolism / Bioenergetics
Catabolism
Citric acid cycle
Glycosis

Hopefully that helps. If you have more questions, post here or TG me