NATION

PASSWORD

NSG Senate Coffee Shop: No Free Refills

A resting-place for threads that might have otherwise been lost.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13976
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ainin » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:39 am

Yes, a presidential recommendation.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:21 am

Ainin wrote:Yes, a presidential recommendation.


Oh, because of the silly clause that stops bills from actually being submitted. Great. Guess we'll neither have an armed forces or a police force.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
House of Judah
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1088
Founded: Nov 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby House of Judah » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:25 pm

Also, the National Police Service has already been established by the Justice Department Act.

User avatar
Van Hool Islands
Diplomat
 
Posts: 744
Founded: Nov 12, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Van Hool Islands » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:58 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Ainin wrote:Yes, a presidential recommendation.


Oh, because of the silly clause that stops bills from actually being submitted. Great. Guess we'll neither have an armed forces or a police force.

If you don't want to play by the rules you can leave the RP.
Anita Chow of the Socialist Party of Banduria
Co-admin of the NS Parliament

User avatar
Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lamaredia » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:14 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Ainin wrote:Yes, a presidential recommendation.


Oh, because of the silly clause that stops bills from actually being submitted. Great. Guess we'll neither have an armed forces or a police force.

Yes, because it is obviously such a large effort to contact Ainin to get assent :roll:
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:37 pm

Van Hool Islands wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
Oh, because of the silly clause that stops bills from actually being submitted. Great. Guess we'll neither have an armed forces or a police force.

If you don't want to play by the rules you can leave the RP.


No, you do what I tell you to do.

Lamaredia wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
Oh, because of the silly clause that stops bills from actually being submitted. Great. Guess we'll neither have an armed forces or a police force.

Yes, because it is obviously such a large effort to contact Ainin to get assent :roll:


I don't need assent. You need to pass it.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
House of Judah
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1088
Founded: Nov 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby House of Judah » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:46 pm

Need to pass a bill that reestablishes an already reestablished national police?

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:51 pm

House of Judah wrote:Need to pass a bill that reestablishes an already reestablished national police?


Perhaps then it should clarify the powers and responsibilities of police?
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
House of Judah
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1088
Founded: Nov 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby House of Judah » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
House of Judah wrote:Need to pass a bill that reestablishes an already reestablished national police?


Perhaps then it should clarify the powers and responsibilities of police?

That is a bill we could use.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:38 pm

In light of recent developments, here is the still under construction "Police Powers and Responsibilities Act":

Police Powers and Responsibilities Act
Author: Antonis Pallis (GAP)
Sponsors:


An Act to delineate the powers, rules and responsibilities of the National Police of Galatea.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:



§1 - Powers of Detention
  1. Hereby allows the National Police of Galatea to detain individuals who have been suspected of committing a crime, reported to have committed a crime by a member of the public or who have been witnessed by an active duty police officer committing a crime.
  2. The National Police of Galatea shall detain individuals for a maximum of 72 hours without being charged of a crime.
  3. The National Police of Galatea may detain a person the maximum detention period through a court declaration allowing them to do so.
  4. The National Police of Galatea must present a convincing argument that they have credible reason to do so, i.e they are close to obtaining evidence that may lead to criminal charges being laid.
  5. The National Police of Galatea may not arbitrarily detain individuals who have not committed crimes, who have not been reported to have committed a crime, or an active duty officer has not witnessed them commiting a crime.
  6. Officers who are detaining individuals must state why the individual is being detained.
  7. Officers who are detaining individuals must state that the individual being detained is not under arrest.
  8. Records of detention must be kept by the National Police of Galatea. Detentions must not be added to the criminal record of individuals.

§2 - Powers of Arrest
  1. Hereby allows the National Police of Galatea to arrest individuals who have committed a crime or on reasonable grounds that a person has committed a crime, or is about to commit a crime.
  2. Clarifies reasonable suspicion as "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".
  3. Furthermore allows active duty officers of the National Police of Galatea to arrest individuals in possession of illegal contraband, narcotics, weapons or other property in contravention of relevant laws within the Civil Code.
  4. Active duty officers who are arresting individuals who have committed a crime, are arresting individuals on reasonable grounds of committing a crime or individuals who are in possession of illegal, dangerous or otherwise offensive property and other such articles must read the individual their rights, including the right to remain silent and the right to legal representation.
  5. Active duty officers who are making an arrest of an individual are required to verbally state what crime the individual has committed.
  6. Active duty officers who are making an arrest of an individual may use physical and non-lethal force if an individual is resisting arrest within reason.
  7. Clarifies within reason as "force that does not unduly cause injury or other harm to the individual".


§3 - Powers of Custody
  1. Hereby creates the legal ability for the National Police of Galatea to place individuals in their custody.
  2. Active duty police officers may place individuals into their custody if the individual is a legally-defined child who is lost, an individual who is about to cause injury to themselves or others outside of committing criminal activity and other instances where an individual may be put at risk to health and life.
  3. Active duty police officers have full discretion to make the decision to place someone in custody independent of court-issued permission.
  4. Individuals in the custody of the National Police of Galatea may be permitted to be kept in the custody of the National Police of Galatea for up to 48 hours before being released from custody.

§4 - Powers of Search
  1. Hereby grants permission for the National Police of Galatea to search individuals and the property of individuals, companies, and institutions for evidence that links inviduals, companies, orgqanisations, and institutions to a crime, further evidence proving their culpability, or to search for illegal property, contrabant and other such offensive items, property and articles.
  2. An active duty police officer may search an individual's clothing on the grounds of reasonable suspicion that an individual has committed a crime, that an individual is about to commit a crime or that an individual has been witnessed by an active duty officer committing a crime.
  3. An active duty police officer may search an individual's vehicle on the grounds of reasonable suspicion that an individual has committed a crime, that an individual is about to commit a crime, or that an individual has been witnessed by an active duty officer committing a crime.
  4. Any items of interest to the active duty police officer conducting the search may be seized immediately.
  5. Furthermore adds to the above that no court-issued search warrants are required for an individual to have themselves or their vehicle searched.
  6. The National Police of Galatea may search the property of an individual, company, organisation or institution in order to find evidence of a crime being committed, to further an ongoing investigation into an individual, company or institution suspected of having committed a crime, or to seize property and finances of individuals, companies and institutions known to be committed crimes or have committed crimes.
  7. Searches of property belonging to an individual, company, organisation, and institution must be legally carried out with a search warrant obtained from a court of law.
  8. The National Police of Galatea must justify the search and present a compelling case to the court explaining why they are conducting the search and how it will benefit the prosecution of an individual, company, organisation, or institution or contribute to the safety of the citizens of Galatea.
  9. Any items of interest or targeted property and finances of interest to the National Police of Galatea may be seized immediately.

§5 - Powers of Seizure
  1. Hereby allows the National Police of Galatea to seize property and finances of individuals, companies, organisations and institutions during searches of an individual's body and vehicle, or searches of property belonging to an individual, company, organisation or institution.
  2. Property and finances that are seized may be used as evidence in a court of law.
  3. Property and finances that are not used in a court of law but are otherwise illegal may be sold on by the National Police of Galatea or disposed of in an appropriate manner.
  4. Individuals, companies, organisations, and instututions may forfeit property to the National Police of Galatea if that property is seized.
  5. Forfeiture of seized property may be granted by court ruling or if an individual that was in possession of, or had property seized that belonged to them, is sentenced to prison.




"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lamaredia » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:20 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Van Hool Islands wrote:If you don't want to play by the rules you can leave the RP.


No, you do what I tell you to do.

Lamaredia wrote:Yes, because it is obviously such a large effort to contact Ainin to get assent :roll:


I don't need assent. You need to pass it.

Or maybe, just maybe, you can take your head out of your ass and follow the rules that the other members here have all agreed upon when voting for the GEA? I don't care about your overblown ego, but you're not above the rules no matter what you want to think.
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:26 pm

Lamaredia wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
No, you do what I tell you to do.



I don't need assent. You need to pass it.

Or maybe, just maybe, you can take your head out of your ass and follow the rules that the other members here have all agreed upon when voting for the GEA? I don't care about your overblown ego, but you're not above the rules no matter what you want to think.


It's a simple request.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lamaredia » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:01 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Lamaredia wrote:Or maybe, just maybe, you can take your head out of your ass and follow the rules that the other members here have all agreed upon when voting for the GEA? I don't care about your overblown ego, but you're not above the rules no matter what you want to think.


It's a simple request.

A simple request that you've been informed, time and time again, not only by me but by other members of the RP, won't be realized. There are rules, you are not exempt from them simply because you want to be.

Either do it right, or don't. I won't table any money bill that hasn't been given assent by the current president, Ainin.
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13976
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:30 pm

The supply in confidence and supply stands for appropriations. You need a presidential recommendation for a bill that appropriates money because the failure of such a bill would be a vote of no confidence in the government. If anyone could submit an appropriations bill, the government would literally be unable to vote against without removing itself from office, which would make no sense.
Last edited by Ainin on Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:34 pm

Lamaredia wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
It's a simple request.

A simple request that you've been informed, time and time again, not only by me but by other members of the RP, won't be realized. There are rules, you are not exempt from them simply because you want to be.

Either do it right, or don't. I won't table any money bill that hasn't been given assent by the current president, Ainin.


My request is simple and reasonable. Yours is not.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lamaredia » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:49 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Lamaredia wrote:A simple request that you've been informed, time and time again, not only by me but by other members of the RP, won't be realized. There are rules, you are not exempt from them simply because you want to be.

Either do it right, or don't. I won't table any money bill that hasn't been given assent by the current president, Ainin.


My request is simple and reasonable. Yours is not.

My request that you follow the rules is not reasonable? The rules are there because the rest of the RP decided that they would be. You are not above the rules that we decided upon.
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

User avatar
Tectonix
Minister
 
Posts: 2587
Founded: Apr 30, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Tectonix » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:52 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Lamaredia wrote:A simple request that you've been informed, time and time again, not only by me but by other members of the RP, won't be realized. There are rules, you are not exempt from them simply because you want to be.

Either do it right, or don't. I won't table any money bill that hasn't been given assent by the current president, Ainin.


My request is simple and reasonable. Yours is not.

You are just wasting time now with no real purpose. The bill will not be brought to the floor in its current form.
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36
Senator Giovanni Galatis of the DP
Member of the Democratic Party of Galatea - For the many, not the few

User avatar
Martune
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1221
Founded: Apr 22, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Martune » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Not the right place for this
Admin of NS Parliament
Join: NS Parliament, a government RP where the possibilities are endless!

Who even knows what I am politically anymore

User avatar
Roosevetania
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jan 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Roosevetania » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:33 pm

Martune wrote:Not the right place for this

We're discussing a bill before it's in the Chamber, so it definitely is.
White Male, Libertarian Socialist, Anti-Fascist, United Methodist, American Deep South
Pro: socialism, anarchism (ideally), antifa, radical democracy, universal liberation, gun rights, open borders, revolution
Anti: capitalism, the state, authoritarianism, capitalist wars, capital punishment, Israel, generally most bourgeois institutions

Yang Jianguo, Member of the Revolutionary People's Party in the NS Parliament

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:53 pm

Tectonix wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
My request is simple and reasonable. Yours is not.

You are just wasting time now with no real purpose. The bill will not be brought to the floor in its current form.


Then accept that we have a standing armed forces.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13976
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ainin » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:36 pm

Just remove the funding clause. We're not going to change how parliamentary government works because of your personal incredulity.

Ainin wrote:The supply in confidence and supply stands for appropriations. You need a presidential recommendation for a bill that appropriates money because the failure of such a bill would be a vote of no confidence in the government. If anyone could submit an appropriations bill, the government would literally be unable to vote against without removing itself from office, which would make no sense.
Last edited by Ainin on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:01 am

No. Accept that we have a standing armed forces.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13976
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ainin » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:47 am

Literally all precedent says the opposite.

Even if we did, I would be the commander in chief. I hereby dissolve it.
Last edited by Ainin on Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19561
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:34 am

Ainin wrote:Literally all precedent says the opposite.

Even if we did, I would be the commander in chief. I hereby dissolve it.


Precedents are a terrible excuse. And that would be godmodding.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Roosevetania
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jan 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Roosevetania » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:11 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Ainin wrote:Literally all precedent says the opposite.

Even if we did, I would be the commander in chief. I hereby dissolve it.


Precedents are a terrible excuse. And that would be godmodding.

I think unilaterally ignoring the laws would be godmodding.
White Male, Libertarian Socialist, Anti-Fascist, United Methodist, American Deep South
Pro: socialism, anarchism (ideally), antifa, radical democracy, universal liberation, gun rights, open borders, revolution
Anti: capitalism, the state, authoritarianism, capitalist wars, capital punishment, Israel, generally most bourgeois institutions

Yang Jianguo, Member of the Revolutionary People's Party in the NS Parliament

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads