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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:13 pm

Vedastia wrote:
Eibenland wrote:OOC: I assume the only tier between the central government and the citizenry is municipal governments.
OOC: I seem to recall there being provinces, but they weren't mentioned in the GEA and their existence doesn't necessarily imply federalism.

The GEA didn't mention anything about a federal state, either. Could there be an act establishing a federal state (something that isn't mentioned in the GEA)? I don't think that there's anything in the GEA preventing that, but I don't know if that would go against the original setting or not.


Yes, revoking the GEA. "A Bill to Revoke the Government Act 2018. The Government Act 2018 is revoked." Saves ink too.
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:32 pm

Paketo wrote:
Eibenland wrote:This is not the United States, it is Galatea. The Government Act does not need to enumerate everything for us.


Technically, we should have included a just and proper clause in the GA. Currently, we are bound to only the powers we have granted explicitly to the legislature though no one would argue at this point the government going beyond what is exactly stated as their powers.


My preference would be to scrap the GA2018 entirely and write a Constitution, but this Bill of Rights can include a just and proper clause at the start that amends / removes the Senate sovereign provision out of the GA2018 and enumerates specific powers to the Government and the rest of the Bill of Rights reserving powers to the Citizenry alone.
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:45 pm

Would everyone prefer I withdraw my ginormous all-or-nothing BOR proposal and submit each section (with suggested changes) as seperate Bills to Amend the GA2018? Perhaps that would have been the better approach, so that disagreement on one provision doesn't kill the consensus to be found in other sections. Has anyone ever submitted multiple bills simultaneously?
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The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism
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Postby The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:31 am

Nulla Bellum wrote:Would everyone prefer I withdraw my ginormous all-or-nothing BOR proposal and submit each section (with suggested changes) as seperate Bills to Amend the GA2018? Perhaps that would have been the better approach, so that disagreement on one provision doesn't kill the consensus to be found in other sections. Has anyone ever submitted multiple bills simultaneously?

This will be much more likely to partially succeed in my opinion, and there's no problem with submitting multiple bills, though they will probably be debated on separately which will take a longer time.

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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:50 pm

The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:Would everyone prefer I withdraw my ginormous all-or-nothing BOR proposal and submit each section (with suggested changes) as seperate Bills to Amend the GA2018? Perhaps that would have been the better approach, so that disagreement on one provision doesn't kill the consensus to be found in other sections. Has anyone ever submitted multiple bills simultaneously?

This will be much more likely to partially succeed in my opinion, and there's no problem with submitting multiple bills, though they will probably be debated on separately which will take a longer time.


Then I shall do that, consider the big bill withdrawn and I will crank out seperate bills.
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The Union of the West
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Postby The Union of the West » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:34 pm

Tagging this for future use
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:45 am

A Bill to Limit the Powers of the President and the Senate

Author: The Hon. Rep. Xander Diamantakos (FIRE)

Sponsors: The Hon. Reps. Michael Dukakis (FIRE), Gary Tyreea (FIRE), Cipriono Scotti (FDP)



§1. Removal of the Presidential Power Over the Fiscal Agenda

a.) Article 6, Section 12 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Money bills may be introduced in the House of Representatives at their leisure and perogative and without the approval and consent of the President.

§2. Abdication of the Senate Claim of Sovereignty

a.) Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Following repeal of Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018, the repealed text shall be abrogated with the following text:

The Senate is a democratically elected representative body empowered by the consent of the governed citizens of Galatea to only enact laws necessary, just, and proper to protect, promote, defend, and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people from unlawful denial, deprivation, coercion or force of aggression from all entities foreign and domestic.

c.) The Senate shall presume all rights and powers not delegated to it by the citizens of Galatea are hereby retained by and reserved for the citizens of Galatea;

d.) the Senate may not infringe, abrogate, abridge, or deny the citizenry of Galatea of any rights enumerated in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights;

e.) The Senate shall amend the Government Act 2018 to enact into law guaranteed enumerated rights of the citizens of Galatea.

f.) Violation of the enumerated and reserved rights of any citizen of Galatea shall be considered treason.
Last edited by Nulla Bellum on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:20 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:32 am

Nulla Bellum wrote:
A Bill to Limit the Powers of the President and the Senate

Author: The Hon. Rep. Xander Diamantakos (FIRE - Dionysika, Pochenti)

Sponsors:



§1. Removal of the Presidential Power Over the Fiscal Agenda

a.) Article 6, Section 12 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Money bills may be introduced in the House of Representatives at their leisure and perogative and without the approval and consent of the President.

§2. Abdication of the Senate Claim of Sovereignty

a.) Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Following repeal of Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018, the repealed text shall be abrogated with the following text:

The Senate is a democratically elected representative body empowered by the consent of the governed citizens of Galatea to only enact laws necessary, just, and proper to protect, promote, defend, and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people from unlawful denial, deprivation, coercion or force of aggression from all entities foreign and domestic.

c.) The Senate shall presume all rights and powers not delegated to it by the citizens of Galatea are hereby retained by and reserved for the citizens of Galatea;

d.) the Senate may not infringe, abrogate, abridge, or deny the citizenry of Galatea of any rights enumerated in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights;

e.) The Senate shall amend the Government Act 2018 to enact into law guaranteed enumerated rights of the citizens of Galatea.

f.) Violation of the enumerated and reserved rights of any citizen of Galatea shall be considered treason.


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Martune
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Postby Martune » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:08 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
A Bill to Limit the Powers of the President and the Senate

Author: The Hon. Rep. Xander Diamantakos (FIRE - Dionysika, Pochenti)

Sponsors: The Hon. Rep. Michael Dukakis (FIRE)



§1. Removal of the Presidential Power Over the Fiscal Agenda

a.) Article 6, Section 12 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Money bills may be introduced in the House of Representatives at their leisure and perogative and without the approval and consent of the President.

§2. Abdication of the Senate Claim of Sovereignty

a.) Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Following repeal of Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018, the repealed text shall be abrogated with the following text:

The Senate is a democratically elected representative body empowered by the consent of the governed citizens of Galatea to only enact laws necessary, just, and proper to protect, promote, defend, and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people from unlawful denial, deprivation, coercion or force of aggression from all entities foreign and domestic.

c.) The Senate shall presume all rights and powers not delegated to it by the citizens of Galatea are hereby retained by and reserved for the citizens of Galatea;

d.) the Senate may not infringe, abrogate, abridge, or deny the citizenry of Galatea of any rights enumerated in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights;

e.) The Senate shall amend the Government Act 2018 to enact into law guaranteed enumerated rights of the citizens of Galatea.

f.) Violation of the enumerated and reserved rights of any citizen of Galatea shall be considered treason.

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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
A Bill to Limit the Powers of the President and the Senate

Author: The Hon. Rep. Xander Diamantakos (FIRE)

Sponsors: The Hon. Reps. Michael Dukakis (FIRE), Gary Tyreea (FIRE)



§1. Removal of the Presidential Power Over the Fiscal Agenda

a.) Article 6, Section 12 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Money bills may be introduced in the House of Representatives at their leisure and perogative and without the approval and consent of the President.

§2. Abdication of the Senate Claim of Sovereignty

a.) Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Following repeal of Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018, the repealed text shall be abrogated with the following text:

The Senate is a democratically elected representative body empowered by the consent of the governed citizens of Galatea to only enact laws necessary, just, and proper to protect, promote, defend, and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people from unlawful denial, deprivation, coercion or force of aggression from all entities foreign and domestic.

c.) The Senate shall presume all rights and powers not delegated to it by the citizens of Galatea are hereby retained by and reserved for the citizens of Galatea;

d.) the Senate may not infringe, abrogate, abridge, or deny the citizenry of Galatea of any rights enumerated in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights;

e.) The Senate shall amend the Government Act 2018 to enact into law guaranteed enumerated rights of the citizens of Galatea.

f.) Violation of the enumerated and reserved rights of any citizen of Galatea shall be considered treason.


Sponsor, Rep. Cipriono Scotti
Last edited by Hakons on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:16 pm

Hakons wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:
A Bill to Limit the Powers of the President and the Senate

Author: The Hon. Rep. Xander Diamantakos (FIRE)

Sponsors: The Hon. Reps. Michael Dukakis (FIRE), Gary Tyreea (FIRE)



§1. Removal of the Presidential Power Over the Fiscal Agenda

a.) Article 6, Section 12 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Money bills may be introduced in the House of Representatives at their leisure and perogative and without the approval and consent of the President.

§2. Abdication of the Senate Claim of Sovereignty

a.) Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018 shall be repealed;

b.) Following repeal of Article 2, Section 4 of the Government Act 2018, the repealed text shall be abrogated with the following text:

The Senate is a democratically elected representative body empowered by the consent of the governed citizens of Galatea to only enact laws necessary, just, and proper to protect, promote, defend, and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people from unlawful denial, deprivation, coercion or force of aggression from all entities foreign and domestic.

c.) The Senate shall presume all rights and powers not delegated to it by the citizens of Galatea are hereby retained by and reserved for the citizens of Galatea;

d.) the Senate may not infringe, abrogate, abridge, or deny the citizenry of Galatea of any rights enumerated in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights;

e.) The Senate shall amend the Government Act 2018 to enact into law guaranteed enumerated rights of the citizens of Galatea.

f.) Violation of the enumerated and reserved rights of any citizen of Galatea shall be considered treason.


Sponsor, Rep. Cipriono Scotti


Yes!!
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Roosevetania
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Postby Roosevetania » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:02 pm

This bill literally bans any bill except one the protects freedom, effectively not allowing any kind of regulation.
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:07 pm

Roosevetania wrote:This bill literally bans any bill except one the protects freedom, effectively not allowing any kind of regulation.


How so? The bill gives budgetary power to the legislature (common sense), states that sovereignty is derived from the people (not the government), restricts government like every other democratic nation (unlisted rights are reserved to the people), protects basic human rights, and lays the groundwork to add fundimental rights to law.
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm

Roosevetania wrote:This bill literally bans any bill except one the protects freedom, effectively not allowing any kind of regulation.


No it does not. It would ban regulations that are not necessary, just, and proper. I could propose bills for anything from taxes to fund an armed police department to providing education and unemployment benefits within the restrictions of this bill. What regulatory power do you imagine the Senate needs?

By turning compliance with the UN Declaration of Human Rights into law, education, social security, labor protections, etc., a smattering of good ideas from the left and the right become the necessary, just, and proper role of our government, and with this bill, we aren't hamstrung with the requirement of soliciting the President's permission to even discuss how to pay for anything.
Last edited by Nulla Bellum on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roosevetania
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Postby Roosevetania » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:50 pm

Cutting out the fat to simplify:
The Senate is ... empowered ... to only enact laws ... to protect ... and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people...
Literally, the only laws allowed are ones "protecting freedom."
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:54 pm

Roosevetania wrote:Cutting out the fat to simplify:
The Senate is ... empowered ... to only enact laws ... to protect ... and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people...
Literally, the only laws allowed are ones "protecting freedom."


Which of the UN Declaration of Human Rights do you disagree with?
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Roosevetania
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Postby Roosevetania » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:56 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
Roosevetania wrote:Cutting out the fat to simplify:
The Senate is ... empowered ... to only enact laws ... to protect ... and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people...
Literally, the only laws allowed are ones "protecting freedom."


Which of the UN Declaration of Human Rights do you disagree with?

I don't, but you said that the only laws the Senate can make are ones protecting freedom, not allowing for an ounce of regulation. This also infringes on the sovereignty of the legislature.
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:11 pm

Roosevetania wrote:Cutting out the fat to simplify:
The Senate is ... empowered ... to only enact laws ... to protect ... and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people...
Literally, the only laws allowed are ones "protecting freedom."


A wide degree of things are covered under preserving safety, freedom, individual rights, and property. It is like how the U.S. Congress can regulate just about the entire economy with the commerce clause.
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:18 pm

Roosevetania wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:
Which of the UN Declaration of Human Rights do you disagree with?

I don't, but you said that the only laws the Senate can make are ones protecting freedom, not allowing for an ounce of regulation. This also infringes on the sovereignty of the legislature.


What regulatory power do you not see in a limitation of legislative power to those necessary, just, and proper to protect, promote, defend, and preserve.....Safety? Freedom? Individual Rights? Property?

I certainly could regulate safety with these limits. I could create a national defense force and navy within these limits. And so on.

Why do you need regulatory powers that would not protect, promote, defend, and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people against *unlawful* trangressions?

Did you have any particular form of oppression employed by the Junta that was your favorite?

The people tell us serving in government what to do, not the other way around.
Last edited by Nulla Bellum on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:38 pm

Hakons wrote:
Roosevetania wrote:Cutting out the fat to simplify:
The Senate is ... empowered ... to only enact laws ... to protect ... and preserve the safety, freedom, individual rights, and property of the Galatean people...
Literally, the only laws allowed are ones "protecting freedom."


A wide degree of things are covered under preserving safety, freedom, individual rights, and property. It is like how the U.S. Congress can regulate just about the entire economy with the commerce clause.


The Just and Proper Clause of the US Constitution is fairly elastic, which is why it is nicknamed the "elastic clause."
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Eibenland
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Postby Eibenland » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:51 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
Hakons wrote:
A wide degree of things are covered under preserving safety, freedom, individual rights, and property. It is like how the U.S. Congress can regulate just about the entire economy with the commerce clause.


The Just and Proper Clause of the US Constitution is fairly elastic, which is why it is nicknamed the "elastic clause."

We need an equally elastic clause for Galatea. The legislature needs to effectively represent the people.
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The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism
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Postby The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:00 pm

National Space Agency Act
Author: Lilika Samaras (AfC)
Sponsors: Alexis Gianopoulos (DP), Konstantin Serdelescu-Montevino (CPG-M), Joseph Sartori (DP), Xander Diamantakos (FIRE), Andrea Michelakos, (FDP)


An act to establish a national space agency for Galatea; to establish proper and safe regulation on private space flight; to enable international cooperation on space exploration.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:



§1 - Establishment
  1. There shall be established a special governmental organization, named the National Space Agency of Galatea (NSAG).
  2. The NSAG will be headed by an Administrator, who will be appointed by the President of Galatea on the advice of the Prime Minister after the conclusion of national elections.
  3. The activities of the NSAG may be regulated in national legislation.
  4. The Prime Minister may offer a set of broad goals or focus areas for the NSAG to focus on during their administration.
  5. Other than national legislation and broad Prime Ministerial direction, the activities and focuses of the NSAG shall be left up to its internal administration.

§2 - Responsibilities
  1. Where such regulation does not disagree with law, the NSAG shall be empowered to create legal regulations on the following:
    1. Rocket launch facility locations.
    2. Safe launch windows, timings and angles.
    3. Galatean satellites and/or orbiters.
    4. Manned spaceflight.
    5. International cooperation/technological exchanges relating to spaceflight.
  2. The NSAG shall be responsible for advising the executive government on space policy.
  3. The NSAG shall be responsible for creating and engaging Galatean citizens in space-related interest.
  4. The NSAG shall be responsible for creating and maintaining a healthy environment for private space exploration and exploitation.
  5. The NSAG shall be responsible for directing Galatea's national scientific interests in space-related areas.
  6. The NSAG shall be responsible for establishing and maintaining cooperative links with foreign space-related organizations.


A national space agency, more of a regulatory agency for private space flight than a governmental space vehicle but that's more what's appropriate for Galatea's size. Any thoughts?
Last edited by The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism on Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Lamaredia
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Postby Lamaredia » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:03 pm

The Miaphysite Church of Coptic Archism wrote:
National Space Agency Act
Author: Lilika Samaras (AfC)
Sponsors:


An act to establish a national space agency for Galatea; to establish proper and safe regulation on private space flight; to enable international cooperation on space exploration.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED, as follows:



§1 - Establishment
  1. There shall be established a special governmental organization, named the National Space Agency of Galatea (NSAG).
  2. The NSAG will be headed by an Administrator, who will be appointed by the President of Galatea on the advice of the Prime Minister after the conclusion of national elections.
  3. The activities of the NSAG may be regulated in national legislation.
  4. The Prime Minister may offer a set of broad goals or focus areas for the NSAG to focus on during their administration.
  5. Other than national legislation and broad Prime Ministerial direction, the activities and focuses of the NSAG shall be left up to it's internal administration.

§2 - Responsibilities
  1. Where such regulation does not disagree with law, the NSAG shall be empowered to create legal regulations on the following:
    1. Rocket launch facility locations.
    2. Safe launch windows, timings and angles.
    3. Galatean satellites and/or orbiters.
    4. Manned spaceflight.
    5. International cooperation/technological exchanges relating to spaceflight.
  2. The NSAG shall be responsible for advising the executive government on space policy.
  3. The NSAG shall be responsible for creating and engaging Galatean citizens in space-related interest.
  4. The NSAG shall be responsible for creating and maintaining a healthy environment for private space exploration and exploitation.
  5. The NSAG shall be responsible for directing Galatea's national scientific interests in space-related areas.
  6. The NSAG shall be responsible for establishing and maintaining cooperative links with foreign space-related organizations.


A national space agency, more of a regulatory agency for private space flight than a governmental space vehicle but that's more what's appropriate for Galatea's size. Any thoughts?

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Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:18 pm

Eibenland wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:
The Just and Proper Clause of the US Constitution is fairly elastic, which is why it is nicknamed the "elastic clause."

We need an equally elastic clause for Galatea. The legislature needs to effectively represent the people.


My bill intends that, without the convoluted elasticity the United States government has developed over 200 years, by basically taking the flowery Preamble / mission statement of the US Constitution and making it a solid affirmation of the negative rights - setting clear boundaries the government may not legitimately cross. Given the allegedly brutal prior Junta, I ask where the problem is in outlawing the Junta's methodology? Making the violation of our citizen's rights the definition of treason sets Galatean freedom on a much more higher plane than mere American constitutionalism. I have to suspect the motives of anyone who believes the government needs to be less constrained than its power source - the people.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:19 pm

There is nothing more useless that I can imagine than a space program run by backwater Greco-Latins.
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