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New World Oceania
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Jun 19, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby New World Oceania » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:23 pm

Tectonix wrote:
New World Oceania wrote:Seeking sponsors.

Senate Rules Resolution
Author: New World Oceania (PA)
Sponsors:


A resolution governing the proceedings of the Senate.

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED by the Head of the State, by and with the counsel of the Government, and the authority of the Senate by virtue of the powers placed upon it by the Law, as follows:


I. Rules

§1 - The Standing Rules of the Senate of Fernão shall be repealed.
§2 - A non-partisan President of the Senate, elected by the Senate, shall each week schedule five days of debate on legislation and executive business followed by two days of voting.
§3 - The President of the Senate may appoint ad-hoc committees, rule on points of order, remove members from the chamber for misconduct, and transmit messages between the Senate and the President of the Republic.
§4 - Amendments from bill authors shall be accepted.

II. Committees

§1 - The President of the Senate may appoint committees, who shall have separate threads from the Chamber, to scrutinize legislation or executive business. All Senators shall be members of each committee.
§2 - Committees may amend legislation and report on executive business to the Senate.
    a. The full Senate shall vote by ballot on amended bills, between the bill "as amended," "as submitted," and "against."
    b. If the bill "as amended" and "as submitted" together receive more votes than "against," the bill shall pass as either amended or submitted, whichever receives more votes.
§3 - Committees shall be discharged of their business after five days.

III. Provisions; Effective

§1 - The Senate may adopt standing rules proposed by the President of the Senate supplementary to these rules.
§2 - Multiple executive nominations may be debated on one day.[/list]
§3 - Business debated by a committee need not be debated by the full Senate.
§4 - The President of the Senate shall bring to the floor as many bills sponsored by the President or a member of the President's cabinet as are brought bills not sponsored by the President or members of the President's cabinet.
§5 - This resolution shall be effective upon passage by the Senate.

Why are you omitting all of the decorum, voting procedures, disciplinary procedures and debate provisions? I understand what you're trying to do, but we should still retain those aspects while changing what needs to be changed.

When we put obvious things in text, people play on the technicalities for personal gain and waste our time. "Misconduct" doesn't need a definition (as a matter of fact, it's codified in OOC precedent). We don't need to debate whether "dumbass" is unparliamentary. Everyone knows how to conduct a vote. We don't need a debate on whether "aye" is the same as "yea." It's pointless.

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Davincia
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Postby Davincia » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:41 pm

I'll sponsor the Senate Rules Resolution.
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Roosevetania
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Postby Roosevetania » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:01 pm

I'll sponsor the Declaration of Neutrality of Fernão. Ana Ernst, MNP.
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Maklohi Vai
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Founded: Jan 07, 2012
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Postby Maklohi Vai » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:46 am

Thanks for the sponsor!

We are not going to be setting up a new Bill Depository at the moment, so this bill will be added to a list once the house is back in regular session.

Declaration of Neutrality of Fernão
Sponsor: Beto Goncalves (PA - Maklohi Vai)
Co-Sponsors: Stephan Dannon (CU - Paketo), Brega Ruijters (CU - Hindia Belanda), Alexios Viel (RGA - Tectonix), Angelina Acosta (CU - Anere), Anna Ernst (MNP - Roosevetania)


An Act of the Senate to secure the future of Fernão on the world stage

BE IT THEREFORE ENACTED by the Head of the State, by and with the counsel of the Government, and the authority of the Senate by virtue of the powers placed upon it by the Law, as follows:



§1 - From its own free will, conscious of its violent past and hopes for a peaceful future, the Federal Republic of Fernão declares its permanent neutrality and intention to defend that neutrality with all means at its disposal.

§ 2 - To the end of neutrality, Fernão will not permit the construction of foreign military bases or presence of adversarial foreign agents on its territory.
Last edited by Maklohi Vai on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anere
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Founded: Jun 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Anere » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:17 pm

Because we don't have anything in the Criminal Code on slavery, human trafficking, and the like, I thought it proper to write this bill:

Slavery and Human Trafficking Act

Sponsor: Angelina Acosta (CU)
Co-Sponsors: Leopoldo Agramonte (CU)
An act of the Senate of Fernão to make illegal the crimes of slavery, peonage, coercion into forced servitude, sale into forced servitude, transportation of slaves, forced labour, human trafficking, sex trafficking, the aiding, abetting or benefiting of/from such crimes and the obstruction of such crimes, and other purposes.

Section 1: Findings of the Senate
The Senate of Fernão finds that:
  1. it is absolutely necessary for any nation to have laws against slavery, peonage, human trafficking, and similar crimes.
  2. no law passed by the Senate of Fernão has, in any manner, prohibited or attempted the quell such crimes.
  3. no effort by any government institution has been made to aid those victims of crimes specifically related to slavery, peonage, human trafficking, and others.
  4. the Criminal Code of Fernão makes no provision regarding the matters of slavery, peonage, human trafficking, and similar crimes.

Section 2: Slavery
Whosoever
    1) claims to own another human being for any reason and exercises supreme authority or control over that person by restricting their rights and freedoms without just cause;
    2) aids or abets in the practice of owning another human being for any reason and exercises supreme authority or control over that person by restricting their rights and freedoms without just cause;
is guilty of slavery, a delict, and will receive life imprisonment or imprisonment for no more than thirty-five years.

Section 3: Peonage
Whosoever
    1) captures another person or persons in order to render them in a state of peonage for unpaid debts of any kind or confines someone under the same conditions;
    2) forcibly compels another person to work to pay of debts of any kind;
    3) Attempts to render a person into a state of peonage for unpaid debts or aids and abets from such an enterprise;
is guilty of peonage, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than fifteen years.


Section 4: Kidnap into forced servitude
Whosoever
    1) by any means kidnaps another person for the intent of selling them into involuntary servitude, transporting them to another person who will use that person to sell into involuntary servitude, or to keep as their own slave;
    2) Coerces another human being into a location or agreement with the intent of selling them into involuntary servitude, transporting them to another person who will use that person to sell into involuntary servitude, or to keep as their own slave;
    3) Offering the use of intoxicants or forcing the use of intoxicants with the intent of selling them into involuntary servitude, transporting them to another person who will use that person to sell into involuntary servitude, or to keep as their own slave;
is guilty of coercion into forced servitude, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than fifteen years.


Section 4: Kidnap into forced servitude
Whosoever
    1) by any means kidnaps another person for the intent of selling them into involuntary servitude, transporting them to another person who will use that person to sell into involuntary servitude, or to keep as their own slave;
    2) coerces another human being into a location or agreement with the intent of selling them into involuntary servitude, transporting them to another person who will use that person to sell into involuntary servitude, or to keep as their own slave;
    3) offers the use of intoxicants or forces the use of intoxicants with the intent of selling them into involuntary servitude, transporting them to another person who will use that person to sell into involuntary servitude, or to keep as their own slave;
    4) attempts to, aids, or abets the actions enumerated above;
is guilty of coercion into slavery, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than fifteen years.


Section 5: Sale into forced servitude
Whosoever
    1) by transaction of any kind transfers one slave from the bondage of himself unto another
    2) attempts to, by transaction of any kind, transfer one slave from the bondage of himself unto another
is guilty of sale into forced servitude, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than fifteen years.


Section 6: Transportation of slaves
Whosoever
    1) knowingly transports or aids in the transporting of slaves from Fernão under any circumstance;
    2) is found in position of slaves on a vessel of any kind;
is guilty of transportation of slaves, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than ten years.


Section 7: Forced labour
Whosoever using the services of a labourer:
    1) uses force or threat of force against a person of labour;
    2) in any way seriously causes bodily harm or attempts to cause bodily harm upon a person of labour;
    3) is responsible for any method or plan to cause serious bodily harm or attempt to cause serious bodily harm to a person of labour;
    4) is knowingly part of any scheme to cause cause serious bodily harm or attempt to cause serious bodily harm to a person of labour;
    5) benefits knowingly from any scheme to cause cause serious bodily harm or attempt to cause serious bodily harm to a person of labour;
is guilty of forced labour, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than fifteen years.


Section 8: Human Trafficking
Whosoever
    1) forcibly transports a human being from one location to another;
    2) receives any person of any kind knowingly obtained by methods of coercion into forced servitude, sale into forced servitude or transportation of slaves as defined by this act;
    3) indulges in the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons for the explicit purpose of exploitation of persons for any purpose by use of force or threat of force;
is guilty of human trafficking, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than twenty years.


Section 9: Sex Trafficking
Whosoever
    1) commits human trafficking for the purpose of obtaining or soliciting sexual intercourse;
    2) knowingly benefiting from the obtaining or soliciting sexual intercourse from human trafficking;
is guilty of sex trafficking, a delict, and will receive imprisonment for no more than twenty years if the person trafficked is under eighteen and life imprisonment if the person is under eighteen.



Section 10: Tampering and obstructing with an investigation into human trafficking and slavery-related crimes
Whosoever
    1) destroys, confiscates, commits, expunges in any way, or possesses documents or evidence of human trafficking and related crimes under this act for the expressed purpose of tampering with an investigation into such crimes;
    2) obstructs, or in any way, attempts to obstruct with an investigation into human trafficking and slavery-related crimes;
is guilty of tampering and obstructing with an investigation into human trafficking and slavery-related crimes and will receive imprisonment for no more than fifteen years.



Section 11: Property used for human trafficking or slavery-related crimes
Any property or asset
    1) used for the purpose of slavery, peonage, coercion into forced servitude, sale into forced servitude, transportation of slaves, forced labour, human trafficking, sex trafficking, the aiding, abetting or benefiting of/from such crimes and the obstruction of such crimes;
    2) that exists from any benefit, financial or otherwise, of slavery, peonage, coercion into forced servitude, sale into forced servitude, transportation of slaves, forced labour, human trafficking, sex trafficking, the aiding, abetting or benefiting of/from such crimes and the obstruction of such crimes;
will be perpetually the property of the Public Prosecutor's Office and the Department of Justice.


Section 13: Regarding jurisdiction
The Department of Justice's jurisdiction over the enforcement of this act or any criminal or civil suits regarding the matters of slavery, peonage, human trafficking, or sex trafficking are considered universal jurisdiction and shall extend to all persons of all nationalities within or without the territory of Fernão regardless of the origin of the victim(s).
Last edited by Anere on Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Ainin
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Posts: 13967
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:25 pm

Image
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND POLICING
FORTALEZA, FERNÃO


Office of Senator Angelina Acosta
Senate Circle
Fortaleza

Dear Mrs. Acosta,

The Department of Justice and Policing shares your deep concern for the heinous and despicable acts of modern slavery and human trafficking that persist in Fernão and across the world. We strongly believe in bringing to justice the individuals who enable and engage in such conspiracies, and we fully support legislative action to strengthen enforcement in this regard.

However, some details within its language are problematic or contradictory to existing legislation, and should be rectified.

  • The finding that no laws exist that prohibit slavery or human trafficking is false. The Constitution states in Section I, Article V that "All persons shall have the right to freedom. Slavery, concubinage, forced labor, indentured servitude, and all forms of bondage are to be prohibited throughout the Federal Republic." The Constitution carries the full force of law within Fernão. No human being shall additionally be imprisoned, enslaved or in any other ways incarcerated for failure to pay a debt."

  • The finding that the Criminal Code makes no provisions regarding "slavery, peonage, human trafficking, and similar crimes" is inaccurate. While some of these actions are not explicitly enumerated, several behaviours associated with these acts is already criminalised under the following Criminal Code sections:

    §8.d (Abduction): Every person who involuntarily confines or transports another person through coercion, trickery or force in a manner not prescribed by law is guilty of a delict and liable for no more than ten (10) years' imprisonment.

    §8.e (Wrongful confinement): Every person who without lawful cause involuntarily confines or restrains another person through coercion, trickery or force is guilty of a contravention and liable for no more than twenty-four (24) months' imprisonment.
  • The Act should consequently be revised as not to create redundancies with existing law. Contradictory or redundant sections should instead be presented as amendments.

  • All crimes in Fernão are categorised as either delicts (cf. felonies) or contraventions (cf. misdemeanours). The Act should make clear what class of criminal offence it creates in each section.

  • Section 10 of the Act in question is construed in an excessively broad manner and does not enumerate any specific criminal actions.

  • The actions enumerated under Section 11 of the Act are already unlawful under §5.g of the Criminal Code (subversion of justice), which reads: "Every person who (...) b. forges, destroys, tampers with or deliberately misrepresents evidence (...) is guilty of a delict and liable for no more than five (5) years' imprisonment and a $10,000 fine."

  • Section 12 of the Act has a very real risk of eroding the transparency and capabilities of the Department of Public Prosecutions. In many cases, it is important to preserve evidence for accountability or use in future prosecutions, or because the evidence in question is culturally significant. The destruction of evidence should remain at the discretion of the independent Department of Public Prosecutions.

  • Section 13 of the Act is unconstitutional. Article CVIII of the Constitution states, in part, that "Courts shall only hear cases (...) a. that occur on Fernese sovereign territory or in an area of law subject to universal jurisdiction (...)." While some of the behaviours listed, such as modern slavery, are indeed within an area of law accepted by the community of nations to be subject to universal jurisdiction, this is not true of other offences listed in this Act, such as evidence destruction, creating unsafe working environments or kidnapping. They are therefore ultra vires the jurisdiction of Fernese courts when they do not occur within our sovereign territory.

Yours sincerely,

Kareema Hanoona
Acting Attorney General
Last edited by Ainin on Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Anere
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Postby Anere » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:45 pm

To begin, thank you Ainin for pointing these things. I appreciate constructive criticism.

The finding that no laws exist that prohibit slavery or human trafficking is false. The Constitution states in Section I, Article V that "All persons shall have the right to freedom. Slavery, concubinage, forced labor, indentured servitude, and all forms of bondage are to be prohibited throughout the Federal Republic." The Constitution carries the full force of law within Fernão. No human being shall additionally be imprisoned, enslaved or in any other ways incarcerated for failure to pay a debt."

I am in fact wrong here. While the Constitution says that slavery and the like are illegal, it doesn't impose any penalties or provisions on what "slavery" or "indentured servitude" are. I apologize for this oversight.

§8.d (Abduction): Every person who involuntarily confines or transports another person through coercion, trickery or force in a manner not prescribed by law is guilty of a delict and liable for no more than ten (10) years' imprisonment.

§8.e (Wrongful confinement): Every person who without lawful cause involuntarily confines or restrains another person through coercion, trickery or force is guilty of a contravention and liable for no more than twenty-four (24) months' imprisonment.

These are both offenses that could be used to punish offenders of human trafficking and slavery laws, they are not mutually exclusive to that type of offense and are not nearly enough to fairly punish offenders.

The Act should consequently be revised as not to create redundancies with existing law. Contradictory or redundant sections should instead be presented as amendments.

Which redundancies specifically?

All crimes in Fernão are categorised as either delicts (cf. felonies) or contraventions (cf. misdemeanours). The Act should make clear what class of criminal offence it creates in each section.

Noted, that will be fixed.

Section 10 of the Act in question is construed in an excessively broad manner and does not enumerate any specific criminal actions.

Upon reflection, I agree.

The actions enumerated under Section 11 of the Act are already unlawful under §5.g of the Criminal Code (subversion of justice), which reads: "Every person who (...) b. forges, destroys, tampers with or deliberately misrepresents evidence (...) is guilty of a delict and liable for no more than five (5) years' imprisonment and a $10,000 fine."

For reference, the law is specific to tampering and obstruction of justice when it relates to the act in question, not with other offenses. However, I do see your point.

Section 12 of the Act has a very real risk of eroding the transparency and capabilities of the Department of Public Prosecutions. In many cases, it is important to preserve evidence for accountability or use in future prosecutions, or because the evidence in question is culturally significant. The destruction of evidence should remain at the discretion of the independent Department of Public Prosecutions.

Upon reflection, I have agreed to change the clause from destruction to being perpetually in the custody of the government.

Section 13 of the Act is unconstitutional. Article CVIII of the Constitution states, in part, that "Courts shall only hear cases (...) a. that occur on Fernese sovereign territory or in an area of law subject to universal jurisdiction (...)." While some of the behaviours listed, such as modern slavery, are indeed within an area of law accepted by the community of nations to be subject to universal jurisdiction, this is not true of other offences listed in this Act, such as evidence destruction, creating unsafe working environments or kidnapping. They are therefore [i]ultra vires the jurisdiction of Fernese courts when they do not occur within our sovereign territory.[/list]

I am inclined to agree that slavery, peonage, human trafficking are subject to universal jurisdiction. I should clarify that in the act.
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Davincia
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Founded: Apr 13, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Davincia » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:58 pm

I'll sponsor the Slavery and Human Trafficking Act.
In the meantime, I'll dig these two bills back up.

Animal Protections Act

    Author: Leopoldo Agramonte (CU)
    Sponsors: Rob Kattur (CPF)
   
An act to defend nonhuman creatures from unnecessary harm.


    Section 1: Definitions
   
Animal- A life form that is objectively nonhuman, and is also a member of the Animalia kingdom.
   Blood sport- Any manmade sport intended to inflict injury or death upon and between participating animals.
Undue cruelty- Acts which may include starvation, unnecessary beatings, torture, isolation, and poaching of endangered species.
Endangered- At risk for extinction or likely to become extinct.

    Section 2: Features
   
Any animal that is kept in human possession must be provided with sufficient water, appropriate sustenance, and proper living space in order to retain ownership. Physical harm brought unto an animal that is owned, except as a means of self-defense or in the defense of others or of private property, is hereby prohibited. The government shall deprive any animal when basic needs are neglected by the owner in question.

    Section 3: Guidelines
   
    1) Blood sport, which includes (but is not limited to) cockfighting and its derivatives, will not exist within Fernão or any territory under its jurisdiction.
        2) The selling and purchasing of endangered animals for the purposes of consumption is hereby prohibited.
        3) The usage of bear traps for hunting will no longer be present in any capacity.
        4) Recreational hunting/fishing, where undue cruelty is brought onto an animal, is henceforth banned.


Constitutional (Enfranchisement) Amendment
Author: Leopoldo Agramonte (CU)
Sponsors: Ana Ernst (MNP)
An amendment to the Constitution to reintegrate veterans and former servicemen/servicewomen.


Article IX, Section 2 of the Constitution is removed in its entirety.
Article X, Section 3 of the Constitution will be subsequently removed.
For: Capitalism, Conservatism, Religion (any), Israel, Capital Punishment, Democracy
Neutral: LBGT Rights, Abortion, Secularism, Libertarianism, Monarchism
Against: Institutionalized Atheism, Communism, Palestine, Fascism, Recreational Drugs

RIP Haruo Nakajima (1929-2017), Yoshio Tsuchiya (1927-2017)

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House of Judah
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Founded: Nov 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby House of Judah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:23 pm

I'm willing to sponsor the APA if the proscribed activities are formatted into amendments to the criminal code and suitable max sentences attached.

Waiting to see how the the slavery bill will be changed, but will likely sponsor.
Last edited by House of Judah on Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Davincia
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Postby Davincia » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:48 pm

House of Judah wrote:I'm willing to sponsor the APA if the proscribed activities are formatted into amendments to the criminal code and suitable max sentences attached.

Waiting to see how the the slavery bill will be changed, but will likely sponsor.

I think having a single bill for the APA's provisions is simpler than amending the criminal code. Sentencing is better left to the courts anyway.
Last edited by Davincia on Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For: Capitalism, Conservatism, Religion (any), Israel, Capital Punishment, Democracy
Neutral: LBGT Rights, Abortion, Secularism, Libertarianism, Monarchism
Against: Institutionalized Atheism, Communism, Palestine, Fascism, Recreational Drugs

RIP Haruo Nakajima (1929-2017), Yoshio Tsuchiya (1927-2017)

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House of Judah
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Postby House of Judah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:58 pm

Davincia wrote:
House of Judah wrote:I'm willing to sponsor the APA if the proscribed activities are formatted into amendments to the criminal code and suitable max sentences attached.

Waiting to see how the the slavery bill will be changed, but will likely sponsor.

I think having a single bill for the APA's provisions is simpler than amending the criminal code. Sentencing is better left to the courts anyway.

No, I mean have the bill itself amend the criminal code to add crimes equivalent to the proscribed activities. Or just have it establish crimes outside the criminal code in a separate bill. And I'm not saying the bill should establish the sentence, it should establish the maximum sentence.

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Anere
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Founded: Jun 04, 2017
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Postby Anere » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:02 pm

House of Judah wrote:I'm willing to sponsor the APA if the proscribed activities are formatted into amendments to the criminal code and suitable max sentences attached.

Waiting to see how the the slavery bill will be changed, but will likely sponsor.

I've made the majority of changes Ainin brought up and am still waiting for his verification on some of the others.
Cogito ergo sum


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Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum. Quid enim est aetas hominis, nisi ea memoria rerum veterum cum superiorum aetate contexitur? - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Nullus ballivus ponat decetero aliquem ad legem simplici loquela sua, sine testibus fidelibus ad hoc inductis. - Magna Carta Libertatum

Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. - V from V for Vendetta

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Nulla Bellum
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Founded: Apr 24, 2017
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:06 am

"I would like to propose a change to the anti-slavery / human trafficking bill that declares Fernão to be a right to work nation - that no worker or employee must join or pay fees or dues or poenage to a labor union as a condition of employment. Further, no employer, company, or corporation may be compelled to enter into a collective bargaining agreement with their employees, and forbids the government from recognizing the legality of collective bargaining agreements in which an organized labor union is a party after current contracts expire. Strikes and lock-outs and the threats of such shall be dealt with under existing hate speech and anti-terrorism laws."

"I will propose a separate bill to deal with union coercion and slavery if the proposed anti-trafficking bill can't be reconciled with my right to work provisions."
Last edited by Nulla Bellum on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Anere
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Founded: Jun 04, 2017
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Postby Anere » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:13 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:"I would like to propose a change to the anti-slavery / human trafficking bill that declares Fernão to be a right to work nation - that no worker or employee must join or pay fees or dues or poenage to a labor union as a condition of employment. Further, no employer, company, or corporation may be compelled to enter into a collective bargaining agreement with their employees, and forbids the government from recognizing the legality of collective bargaining agreements in which an organized labor union is a party after current contracts expire. Strikes and lock-outs and the threats of such shall be dealt with under existing hate speech and anti-terrorism laws."

"I will propose a separate bill to deal with union coercion and slavery if the proposed anti-trafficking bill can't be reconciled with my right to work provisions."

I suggest writing a whole separate bill as my bill and your proposal are two different things.
Cogito ergo sum


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Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum. Quid enim est aetas hominis, nisi ea memoria rerum veterum cum superiorum aetate contexitur? - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Nullus ballivus ponat decetero aliquem ad legem simplici loquela sua, sine testibus fidelibus ad hoc inductis. - Magna Carta Libertatum

Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. - V from V for Vendetta

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Nulla Bellum
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Postby Nulla Bellum » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:45 pm

Anere wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:"I would like to propose a change to the anti-slavery / human trafficking bill that declares Fernão to be a right to work nation - that no worker or employee must join or pay fees or dues or poenage to a labor union as a condition of employment. Further, no employer, company, or corporation may be compelled to enter into a collective bargaining agreement with their employees, and forbids the government from recognizing the legality of collective bargaining agreements in which an organized labor union is a party after current contracts expire. Strikes and lock-outs and the threats of such shall be dealt with under existing hate speech and anti-terrorism laws."

"I will propose a separate bill to deal with union coercion and slavery if the proposed anti-trafficking bill can't be reconciled with my right to work provisions."

I suggest writing a whole separate bill as my bill and your proposal are two different things.


I see overlap, but if two bills will make the employer-employment relationship individual rather than collective and make labor unionism extinct in Fernão, I will back both efforts.
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Postby House of Judah » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:48 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
Anere wrote:I suggest writing a whole separate bill as my bill and your proposal are two different things.


I see overlap, but if two bills will make the employer-employment relationship individual rather than collective and make labor unionism extinct in Fernão, I will back both efforts.

They deal with two completely different things. One is criminalizing slavery and the other is undermining workers' ability to negotiate with management.

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Postby Nulla Bellum » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:26 pm

House of Judah wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:
I see overlap, but if two bills will make the employer-employment relationship individual rather than collective and make labor unionism extinct in Fernão, I will back both efforts.

They deal with two completely different things. One is criminalizing slavery and the other is undermining workers' ability to negotiate with management.


Slavery is already illegal. I see union security agreements and "closed shops" where a worker is coerced into joining a union as a condition of employment as a form of peonage. The worker is a slave of their union. If the union strikes, and the worker wants to cross their pickets to keep working, he faces violence. The relationship between an employer and an employee should be individually bargained, not collectively bargained. Too often, unionism has been the catalyst for violence and terrorism. They go together like drums and basslines. Every union negotiation has at its heart the implied threat of violence, sabotage, vandalism, arson, terrorism, and murder. Unionism must be banned! Businesses should not be coerced by the threat of violence, and should have castle doctrine self-defense protections to remove striking workers from their property. That said, I concede a separate bill is needed, I just can't reconcile not voting for both."

Pointing to the small line of stitches on his forehead from getting into an altercation with workers at the scrap metal factory, Bella continued, "our new president-elect supports labor violence. We have to shut that crap down, now."
Last edited by Nulla Bellum on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby House of Judah » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:37 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
House of Judah wrote:They deal with two completely different things. One is criminalizing slavery and the other is undermining workers' ability to negotiate with management.


Slavery is already illegal. I see union security agreements and "closed shops" where a worker is coerced into joining a union as a condition of employment as a form of peonage. The worker is a slave of their union. If the union strikes, and the worker wants to cross their pickets to keep working, he facea violence. The relationship between an employer and an employee should be individually bargained, not collectively bargained. Too often, unionism has been the catalyst for violence and terrorism. They go together like drums and basslines. Every union negotiation has at its heart the implied threat of violence, sabotage, vandalism, arson, terrorism, and murder. Unionism must be banned! Businesses should not be coerced by yhe threat of violence, and should have castle doctrine self-defense protections to remove striking workers from their property. That said, I concede a separate bill is needed, I just can't reconcile not voting for both."

Pointing to the small line of stitches on his forehead from getting into an altercation with workers at the scrap metal factory, Bella continued, "our new president-elect supports labor violence. We have to shut that crap down, now."

You have absolutely no idea what a labor union is and it shows with this post.

Nor, for that matter, peonage, which is a system of being forced to work off debt. Membership in a labor union involves paying dues and being part of a collective organization that agrees to work together to advance all of the employees interests, rather than individually. No one is forced to work off a debt under the union.

And, to be clear, there is a difference between illegal and criminalized. The state does not recognize slavery, but there criminal code does not currently have a specific provision for a person attempting to hold another in slavery, only certain potentially related crimes. That's what this act is about.

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Postby Nulla Bellum » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:10 pm

House of Judah wrote:
Nulla Bellum wrote:
Slavery is already illegal. I see union security agreements and "closed shops" where a worker is coerced into joining a union as a condition of employment as a form of peonage. The worker is a slave of their union. If the union strikes, and the worker wants to cross their pickets to keep working, he facea violence. The relationship between an employer and an employee should be individually bargained, not collectively bargained. Too often, unionism has been the catalyst for violence and terrorism. They go together like drums and basslines. Every union negotiation has at its heart the implied threat of violence, sabotage, vandalism, arson, terrorism, and murder. Unionism must be banned! Businesses should not be coerced by yhe threat of violence, and should have castle doctrine self-defense protections to remove striking workers from their property. That said, I concede a separate bill is needed, I just can't reconcile not voting for both."

Pointing to the small line of stitches on his forehead from getting into an altercation with workers at the scrap metal factory, Bella continued, "our new president-elect supports labor violence. We have to shut that crap down, now."

You have absolutely no idea what a labor union is and it shows with this post.

Nor, for that matter, peonage, which is a system of being forced to work off debt. Membership in a labor union involves paying dues and being part of a collective organization that agrees to work together to advance all of the employees interests, rather than individually. No one is forced to work off a debt under the union.

And, to be clear, there is a difference between illegal and criminalized. The state does not recognize slavery, but there criminal code does not currently have a specific provision for a person attempting to hold another in slavery, only certain potentially related crimes. That's what this act is about.


"I can fill this building with pages and pages of historical and anecdotal evidence of unions encouraging violence and terrorizing members that do not go along, as well as evidence of unions directing violence and theft and property damage against businesses, business owners, and their patrons and consumers. Communications workers tearing down phone and cable lines to deny entire cities access to contact police, fire, and emergency services. Union officials embezzling and bankrupting worker pension funds to personally enrich themselves. Whistleblowers hospitalized or killed. Incestuous ties to organized crime and terrorist groups. Dirty cops shielded from prosecution and termination by their unions. I firmly believe past behavior predicts future behavior. If we don't shut unions down now, the hope for law and order in Fernão is bleak. You can oppose my bill after I present it, but as long as we're reforming labor laws in Fernão, we ought to be tackling both slavery AND terrorism." Senator Bella snorts in contempt.
Last edited by Nulla Bellum on Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby House of Judah » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:26 pm

Nulla Bellum wrote:
House of Judah wrote:You have absolutely no idea what a labor union is and it shows with this post.

Nor, for that matter, peonage, which is a system of being forced to work off debt. Membership in a labor union involves paying dues and being part of a collective organization that agrees to work together to advance all of the employees interests, rather than individually. No one is forced to work off a debt under the union.

And, to be clear, there is a difference between illegal and criminalized. The state does not recognize slavery, but there criminal code does not currently have a specific provision for a person attempting to hold another in slavery, only certain potentially related crimes. That's what this act is about.


"I can fill this building with pages and pages of historical and anecdotal evidence of unions encouraging violence and terrorizing members that do not go along, as well as evidence of unions directing violence and theft and property damage against businesses, business owners, and their patrons and consumers. Communications workers tearing down phone and cable lines to deny entire cities access to contact police, fire, and emergency services. Union officials embezzling and bankrupting worker pension funds to personally enrich themselves. Whistleblowers hospitalized or killed. Incestuous ties to organized crime and terrorist groups. Dirty cops shielded from prosecution and termination by their unions. I firmly believe past behavior predicts future behavior. If we don't shut unions down now, the hope for law and order in Fernão is bleak. You can oppose my bill after I present it, but as long as we're reforming labor laws in Fernão, we ought to be tackling both slavery AND terrorism." Senator Bella snorts in contempt.

First off, the Coffee Shop is pretty much completely OOC, so I have no idea why you are doing this IC. Second, for every case of a union tie to organized crime or terrorism, you'll probably find three for businesses with similar ties. No one can hold a candle to corporate sabotage when it comes to another company in the same field. You want to target terrorism? Have at cowboy. I'd be interested in your efforts. You want to make it impossible for laborers to work together to better their circumstances? I'm pretty sure there's a fifty foot peer you can take a 100 foot walk on around here somewhere.

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Postby Ainin » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:01 pm

The coffee shop is IC, because bills are inherently IC, and sponsorships are done as IC characters.
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Postby House of Judah » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:07 pm

Ainin wrote:The coffee shop is IC, because bills are inherently IC, and sponsorships are done as IC characters.

Every conversation in the Coffee Shop has been OOC.

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Postby Tectonix » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:09 pm

Ainin wrote:The coffee shop is IC, because bills are inherently IC, and sponsorships are done as IC characters.

Although technically you are correct, one would assume very longstanding OOC precedent would say otherwise. I mean, just a few posts ago Anere referred to you as "Ainin" and not "Haverkamp" or "Singh." The OOC nature of the Coffee Shop has been understood for quite some time.
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Postby Ainin » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:24 pm

I've been here since the start, the positions taken in Coffee Shops have always been IC, despite the use of nation names.
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Postby Tectonix » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:26 pm

Ainin wrote:I've been here since the start, the positions taken in Coffee Shops have always been IC, despite the use of nation names.

An odd quasi-IC status for the Coffee Shop then. Alright.
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