[NSG Senate] Senate Chamber: Do We Have Work?

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

"I have absolutely nothing but complete and total opposition to this bill. This bill uses the Nuremberg defense to justify a complete and total, perhaps unconstitutional, pardon to even mid-ranking officers to completely and utterly obstruct justice for the countless numbers of Elizians that had their rights violated under the ENC regime. Anyone who supports this bill and calls themselves a supporter of human rights is nothing but a hypocrite. This bill's tolerance for human rights abuses is disgusting and I implore all of my colleagues to vote against this bill."

[Davincia]

"I have absolutely nothing but complete and total opposition to this bill. This bill uses the Nuremberg defense to justify a complete and total, perhaps unconstitutional, pardon to even mid-ranking officers to completely and utterly obstruct justice for the countless numbers of Elizians that had their rights violated under the ENC regime. Anyone who supports this bill and calls themselves a supporter of human rights is nothing but a hypocrite. This bill's tolerance for human rights abuses is disgusting and I implore all of my colleagues to vote against this bill."

"Those who gave the orders to commit atrocities are not exempt from punishment. There were thousands of men and women who valiantly served their country under the ENC, and I am proud to have fought alongside them. We should not throw an entire generation of good people under the bus for the mistakes of a select few."

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

"I have absolutely nothing but complete and total opposition to this bill. This bill uses the Nuremberg defense to justify a complete and total, perhaps unconstitutional, pardon to even mid-ranking officers to completely and utterly obstruct justice for the countless numbers of Elizians that had their rights violated under the ENC regime. Anyone who supports this bill and calls themselves a supporter of human rights is nothing but a hypocrite. This bill's tolerance for human rights abuses is disgusting and I implore all of my colleagues to vote against this bill."

"Those who gave the orders to commit atrocities are not exempt from punishment. There were thousands of men and women who valiantly served their country under the ENC, and I am proud to have fought alongside them. We should not throw an entire generation of good people under the bus for the mistakes of a select few."

"Those men and women are not valiant. They were either forced to join, and if they are I am deeply sorry to them, or they were gullible to the ENC's racist propaganda or they were wishing to gain power in the ENC's dictatorial regime. And yet you say that those who carried out the atrocities, encouraged riots against non-Malays, operated death squads and brutally suppressed wishes for freedom are valiant and good people! They are not! They repressed freedom and democracy and non-Malays most of all! And yet you say that they should be exempt from justice through nothing other than the Nuremberg defense!

I'll tell you who is valiant and good. The fighters of the National Coalition for Democratic Salvation. Everything was at risk for them. Their lives, what meager freedoms they had, and the lives of their families. And yet they believe in a free and democratic Elizia, and they risked everything, everything, to free our nation. That is what I call true valiance and righteousness. They knew nothing of their future, yet they decided that they would rather die on their feet than live on their knees, and they took up arms for the righteous cause of democracy and freedom for all Elizians.

Of course, many of these valiant and good fighters are understandably angry at the ENC's soldiers and officers and some may, with a level of wroth that is only displayed against those who killed their families and comrades, take up arms once again to give what they view as justice against the ENC, a possibility that is of course dramatically increased if this disgusting bill is passed. But civil war is something we should be moving away from, so that truth and justice may prevail. We should establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to achieve this truth and justice, and not unilaterally pardon all up to mid-level officers of the ENC regime."

[Davincia]

"Those who gave the orders to commit atrocities are not exempt from punishment. There were thousands of men and women who valiantly served their country under the ENC, and I am proud to have fought alongside them. We should not throw an entire generation of good people under the bus for the mistakes of a select few."

"Those men and women are not valiant. They were either forced to join, and if they are I am deeply sorry to them, or they were gullible to the ENC's racist propaganda or they were wishing to gain power in the ENC's dictatorial regime. And yet you say that those who carried out the atrocities, encouraged riots against non-Malays, operated death squads and brutally suppressed wishes for freedom are valiant and good people! They are not! They repressed freedom and democracy and non-Malays most of all! And yet you say that they should be exempt from justice through nothing other than the Nuremberg defense!

I'll tell you who is valiant and good. The fighters of the National Coalition for Democratic Salvation. Everything was at risk for them. Their lives, what meager freedoms they had, and the lives of their families. And yet they believe in a free and democratic Elizia, and they risked everything, everything, to free our nation. That is what I call true valiance and righteousness. They knew nothing of their future, yet they decided that they would rather die on their feet than live on their knees, and they took up arms for the righteous cause of democracy and freedom for all Elizians.

Of course, many of these valiant and good fighters are understandably angry at the ENC's soldiers and officers and some may, with a level of wroth that is only displayed against those who killed their families and comrades, take up arms once again to give what they view as justice against the ENC, a possibility that is of course dramatically increased if this disgusting bill is passed. But civil war is something we should be moving away from, so that truth and justice may prevail. We should establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to achieve this truth and justice, and not unilaterally pardon all up to mid-level officers of the ENC regime."

"I am trying to move Elizia ahead of its questionable past, much like the Allies did in postwar Germany. Without this bill we are at risk for the courts being flooded with suspects, prisons filled to the brim with former soldiers, and directing our resources away from catching the real war criminals. I remember fondly of my service in the ENC, and my memories are staunchly different from yours, Honorable Speaker. My enemy was communism, not the foreign-born nor the Chinese. My comrades were the common folk, the ones that had no desire to see their beloved nation fall into instability and sectarian chaos. The ENC was a symbol of order, not terror. Peace, not war."

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

"Those men and women are not valiant. They were either forced to join, and if they are I am deeply sorry to them, or they were gullible to the ENC's racist propaganda or they were wishing to gain power in the ENC's dictatorial regime. And yet you say that those who carried out the atrocities, encouraged riots against non-Malays, operated death squads and brutally suppressed wishes for freedom are valiant and good people! They are not! They repressed freedom and democracy and non-Malays most of all! And yet you say that they should be exempt from justice through nothing other than the Nuremberg defense!

I'll tell you who is valiant and good. The fighters of the National Coalition for Democratic Salvation. Everything was at risk for them. Their lives, what meager freedoms they had, and the lives of their families. And yet they believe in a free and democratic Elizia, and they risked everything, everything, to free our nation. That is what I call true valiance and righteousness. They knew nothing of their future, yet they decided that they would rather die on their feet than live on their knees, and they took up arms for the righteous cause of democracy and freedom for all Elizians.

Of course, many of these valiant and good fighters are understandably angry at the ENC's soldiers and officers and some may, with a level of wroth that is only displayed against those who killed their families and comrades, take up arms once again to give what they view as justice against the ENC, a possibility that is of course dramatically increased if this disgusting bill is passed. But civil war is something we should be moving away from, so that truth and justice may prevail. We should establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to achieve this truth and justice, and not unilaterally pardon all up to mid-level officers of the ENC regime."

"I am trying to move Elizia ahead of its questionable past, much like the Allies did in postwar Germany. Without this bill we are at risk for the courts being flooded with suspects, prisons filled to the brim with former soldiers, and directing our resources away from catching the real war criminals. I remember fondly of my service in the ENC, and my memories are staunchly different from yours, Honorable Speaker. My enemy was communism, not the foreign-born nor the Chinese. My comrades were the common folk, the ones that had no desire to see their beloved nation fall into instability and sectarian chaos. The ENC was a symbol of order, not terror. Peace, not war."

"If the common people supported you, why did they take up arms against you? Why did they take to the streets to protest your tyranny? If the ENC was an orderly and peaceful society, why did death squads reign over the people and the state initiate riots against Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and Aboriginal shopkeepers? And if I remember correctly, the Allies did not allow for former high-ranking Nazis to sit in the halls of governance and loudly proclaim that they wish to pardon the vast majority of former soldiers based on the Nuremberg defense so that 'real criminals' may be caught. The Allies did not blindly pardon all soldiers up to a military rank higher than Adolf Eichmann's. All human rights abuses must be found and justice be brought, just as they were in South Africa."

[Normandy and Picardy]

bin Fajar stood up, beginning to speak for what seemed to be the first time in forever

"Honorable Members, I believe we must consider every side of the argument. My family and I lived in fear of the ENC; yes, even we as Malays were scared. I fled, fearing my life. But the horrors of that Elizia are thankfully in the past, and Elizia must be reborn. But, the shadows of the past still loom, and we must ask how we confront them. Yes, those who organised and carried out crimes must be tried, on all sides; not just the ENC, but the NCDS too, for I don't believe they did nothing. But this shouldn't be a witch hunt, and as has been raised we simply couldn't cope with mass trials. We must rebuild Elizia together, and all but those who committed the worse atrocities deserve to be part of the glorious revolution that will bring us into the modern world. A world where everyone can do well, no matter their past. The ENC discriminated against all who weren't Malay; let us not stoop to their level. Yes, all those who commited the atrocities must be punished, but we are walking a fine line. Think carefully."

[The Sarian]

"Mr Speaker, sir, I shall be travelling to China as a visiting scholar at Peking University for a short while. As such, I will not be present in this house. I ask that my Honourable Friend, the Home Secretary (Ainin) be allowed to cast any and all votes on my behalf via proxy."

[Tumbra]

"Mr Speaker, sir, I shall be travelling to China as a visiting scholar at Peking University for a short while. As such, I will not be present in this house. I ask that my Honourable Friend, the Home Secretary (Ainin) be allowed to cast any and all votes on my behalf via proxy."

"That is in order."

[The Nihilistic view]

"What a stupid bill. One wonders why it is the honourable members wrote the damn thing in the first place."

[Davincia]

"I am trying to move Elizia ahead of its questionable past, much like the Allies did in postwar Germany. Without this bill we are at risk for the courts being flooded with suspects, prisons filled to the brim with former soldiers, and directing our resources away from catching the real war criminals. I remember fondly of my service in the ENC, and my memories are staunchly different from yours, Honorable Speaker. My enemy was communism, not the foreign-born nor the Chinese. My comrades were the common folk, the ones that had no desire to see their beloved nation fall into instability and sectarian chaos. The ENC was a symbol of order, not terror. Peace, not war."

"If the common people supported you, why did they take up arms against you? Why did they take to the streets to protest your tyranny? If the ENC was an orderly and peaceful society, why did death squads reign over the people and the state initiate riots against Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and Aboriginal shopkeepers? And if I remember correctly, the Allies did not allow for former high-ranking Nazis to sit in the halls of governance and loudly proclaim that they wish to pardon the vast majority of former soldiers based on the Nuremberg defense so that 'real criminals' may be caught. The Allies did not blindly pardon all soldiers up to a military rank higher than Adolf Eichmann's. All human rights abuses must be found and justice be brought, just as they were in South Africa."

"What you are trying to orchestrate is a witch hunt, pure and simple. Our national infrastructure cannot handle the mass-imprisonment which would follow if this bill does not pass. Are we going to tear apart families in the name of vengeance? Are we going to harm communities while veterans work tirelessly in reintegrating themselves? Many of them are respectable business owners, employees, and friends."

Linanto pauses as he takes a breath.

"The ENC kept the people safe from the communist menace. The methods were sometimes extreme, yes, but Machiavellian solutions are sometimes needed for the greater good. Now is not the time to wallow in past mistakes."

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

"If the common people supported you, why did they take up arms against you? Why did they take to the streets to protest your tyranny? If the ENC was an orderly and peaceful society, why did death squads reign over the people and the state initiate riots against Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and Aboriginal shopkeepers? And if I remember correctly, the Allies did not allow for former high-ranking Nazis to sit in the halls of governance and loudly proclaim that they wish to pardon the vast majority of former soldiers based on the Nuremberg defense so that 'real criminals' may be caught. The Allies did not blindly pardon all soldiers up to a military rank higher than Adolf Eichmann's. All human rights abuses must be found and justice be brought, just as they were in South Africa."

"What you are trying to orchestrate is a witch hunt, pure and simple. Our national infrastructure cannot handle the mass-imprisonment which would follow if this bill does not pass. Are we going to tear apart families in the name of vengeance? Are we going to harm communities while veterans work tirelessly in reintegrating themselves? Many of them are respectable business owners, employees, and friends."

Linanto pauses as he takes a breath.

"The ENC kept the people safe from the communist menace. The methods were sometimes extreme, yes, but Machiavellian solutions are sometimes needed for the greater good. Now is not the time to wallow in past mistakes."

"I am not attempting to orchestrate a witch hunt. I am attempting to bring truth and justice to light through the creation of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission similar to the one created in South Africa. Truth and justice should always prevail, not absurd 'just following orders' and 'they are good people' logic. And as to your claim the ENC kept people safe from Communism and that the creation of death squads and government-sponsored riots against non-Malays were necessary, I say that the Elizian people have only known one danger to their freedom for over five decades, and that has been the ENC itself. Were all of the members of Barisan Elizia secretly members of the Communist Party of Elizia? Were non-Malay shopkeepers, running capitalist businesses, secret communists? Were protestors in the Orchid Revolution who were martyred and imprisoned for the cause of freedom and democracy secretly on the payroll of communists? Were the forces who took up arms as part of the NCDS secret communists? I am sure that the answer to all of these questions is a resounding no, for they were only threats to one thing: the dictatorship of the ENC. Was the ENC creating a 'greater good' when the destroyed the Elizian economy and conducted extrajudicial executions for no reason other than opposition to the ENC dictatorship? These are not 'mistakes', these are crimes against humanity, and perpetrators such as yourself must face justice, as is befitting of a free and democratic state, the first free and democratic state that Elizian people are finally experiencing for the first time in their history."

[The Nihilistic view]

"If an individual has killed somebody they have killed somebody, bringing them to justice for that killing is not a witch-hunt it is enforcing the rule of law. It's despicable that one could care more for the killer than the family of the individual murdered to try and pass an ex post facto bill to absolve individuals of heinous crimes!"

[Davincia]

"What you are trying to orchestrate is a witch hunt, pure and simple. Our national infrastructure cannot handle the mass-imprisonment which would follow if this bill does not pass. Are we going to tear apart families in the name of vengeance? Are we going to harm communities while veterans work tirelessly in reintegrating themselves? Many of them are respectable business owners, employees, and friends."

Linanto pauses as he takes a breath.

"The ENC kept the people safe from the communist menace. The methods were sometimes extreme, yes, but Machiavellian solutions are sometimes needed for the greater good. Now is not the time to wallow in past mistakes."

"I am not attempting to orchestrate a witch hunt. I am attempting to bring truth and justice to light through the creation of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission similar to the one created in South Africa. Truth and justice should always prevail, not absurd 'just following orders' and 'they are good people' logic. And as to your claim the ENC kept people safe from Communism and that the creation of death squads and government-sponsored riots against non-Malays were necessary, I say that the Elizian people have only known one danger to their freedom for over five decades, and that has been the ENC itself. Were all of the members of Barisan Elizia secretly members of the Communist Party of Elizia? Were non-Malay shopkeepers, running capitalist businesses, secret communists? Were protestors in the Orchid Revolution who were martyred and imprisoned for the cause of freedom and democracy secretly on the payroll of communists? Were the forces who took up arms as part of the NCDS secret communists? I am sure that the answer to all of these questions is a resounding no, for they were only threats to one thing: the dictatorship of the ENC. Was the ENC creating a 'greater good' when the destroyed the Elizian economy and conducted extrajudicial executions for no reason other than opposition to the ENC dictatorship? These are not 'mistakes', these are crimes against humanity, and perpetrators such as yourself must face justice, as is befitting of a free and democratic state, the first free and democratic state that Elizian people are finally experiencing for the first time in their history."

"The TRC has struggled to reconcile the black and white communities of South Africa. What gives me any hope of your equivalent organization in restoring a healthy relationship between veterans and the rest of the population?"

[Argentarino]

"If an individual has killed somebody they have killed somebody, bringing them to justice for that killing is not a witch-hunt it is enforcing the rule of law. It's despicable that one could care more for the killer than the family of the individual murdered to try and pass an ex post facto bill to absolve individuals of heinous crimes!"

"Hear, hear! Honestly, Mr. Speaker, the author of this bill wrote it purely for his own self-interest. Nothing more."

[Tumbra]

"Order, order. The Hon. Members must calm themselves, for the debate is now over."

"I now declare voting on the bills for this week open, the Questions being:

1. Whether the National Education Framework Establishment Act is passed.

2. Whether An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea is passed.

3. Whether the Obstruction of Justice Act is passed.

4. Whether the Elizian Housing Act is repealed.

5. Whether the National Leniency Act is passed."

"Even if you are abstaining, INDICATE YOU ARE ABSTAINING."

"The Hon. John Chiu is allowed to submit votes for himself and the Hon. Sa Ri An."

Code: Select all

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE, NAY OR ABSTAIN
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: AYE, NAY OR ABSTAIN
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE, NAY OR ABSTAIN
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: AYE, NAY OR ABSTAIN
National Leniency Act: AYE, NAY OR ABSTAIN


[Arkolon]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: NAY
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: AYE
National Leniency Act: NAY

[Ainin]

Vote for John Chiu
National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: NAY
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: NAY
National Leniency Act: NAY

Vote for Sa Ri An
National Education Framework Establishment Act: ABSTAIN
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: NAY
Obstruction of Justice Act: ABSTAIN
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: NAY
National Leniency Act: NAY

[Nariterrr]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: AYE
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: ABSTAIN
National Leniency Act: NAY

[House of Judah]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: NAY
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: NAY
National Leniency Act: NAY

[The Nihilistic view]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: AYE
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: AYE
National Leniency Act: NAY

[Western Pacific Territories]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: AYE
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: AYE
National Leniency Act: NAY

[West Verrica]

post removed.

[Kamchastkia]

Vote for Putu Hutapea (ENC)
National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: AYE
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: NAY
National Leniency Act: NAY

[Collatis]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: NAY
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: NAY
National Leniency Act: NAY

[Normandy and Picardy]

National Education Framework Establishment Act: AYE
An Act Addressing Chinese Aggression in the South China Sea: NAY
Obstruction of Justice Act: AYE
Repeal of the Elizian Housing Act: ABSTAIN
National Leniency Act: ABSTAIN