[NSG Senate] Senate Chamber: Do We Have Work?

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

"Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind my colleague that the US is also by far China's largest export partner and is in many ways integral to the Chinese economy. Our nation is not at all integral to the Chinese economy and the Chinese aren't going to start heavily investing in the economy of a nation that goes out of its way to condemn Chinese aggression before they legislate on healthcare, police, the environment, infrastructure, establish a Constitution and as a whole get our nation up and running. And although the bill isn't an embargo bill, it's still going to severely negatively impact relations with what is by far the most powerful nation, economically or otherwise, in East Asia. We should be focused on repairing and improving relations with all of our partners, not ruining relations with a nation as large and powerful as China with what is comparatively a trivial matter, considering how in many ways the economic and social development of our nation is threatened by a lack of substantial trade with China."

"Mr. Speaker, I am getting really annoyed when I continually have to repeat this. This bill has nothing to do with Chinese-Elizian economic development, this is a matter of FOREIGN AFFAIRS and it encourages dialogue between our nations as I have already pointed out."

"Mr. Speaker, I would like to stress to my colleague that the Chinese government is not going to be open to a nation that goes out of its way, before legislating on major affairs, to condemn them over a relatively trivial matter. All branches of policy are very much interconnected, and a deterioration of Chinese-Elizian affairs will correlate to less trade between our nations; that is a simple fact, and although this bill may have noble intentions, a realist view of geopolitics makes it clear that this will do damage to Chinese-Elizian trade, and the truth is that this negative impact is going to affect our citizens who are unable to benefit from economic development because poor relations between China and Elizia, a direct result of this bill, will discourage Chinese businesses from investing in Elizia."

[Hakons]

"Mr. Speaker, I am getting really annoyed when I continually have to repeat this. This bill has nothing to do with Chinese-Elizian economic development, this is a matter of FOREIGN AFFAIRS and it encourages dialogue between our nations as I have already pointed out."

"Mr. Speaker, I would like to stress to my colleague that the Chinese government is not going to be open to a nation that goes out of its way, before legislating on major affairs, to condemn them over a relatively trivial matter. All branches of policy are very much interconnected, and a deterioration of Chinese-Elizian affairs will correlate to less trade between our nations; that is a simple fact, and although this bill may have noble intentions, a realist view of geopolitics makes it clear that this will do damage to Chinese-Elizian trade, and the truth is that this negative impact is going to affect our citizens who are unable to benefit from economic development because poor relations between China and Elizia, a direct result of this bill, will discourage Chinese businesses from investing in Elizia."

"Mr. Speaker, I think it is concerning the Hon. Member views a territorial dispute as a trivial matter."

[The Licentian Isles]

"Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind my colleague that the US is also by far China's largest export partner and is in many ways integral to the Chinese economy. Our nation is not at all integral to the Chinese economy and the Chinese aren't going to start heavily investing in the economy of a nation that goes out of its way to condemn Chinese aggression before they legislate on healthcare, police, the environment, infrastructure, establish a Constitution and as a whole get our nation up and running. And although the bill isn't an embargo bill, it's still going to severely negatively impact relations with what is by far the most powerful nation, economically or otherwise, in East Asia. We should be focused on repairing and improving relations with all of our partners, not ruining relations with a nation as large and powerful as China with what is comparatively a trivial matter, considering how in many ways the economic and social development of our nation is threatened by a lack of substantial trade with China."

"Mr. Speaker, I am getting really annoyed when I continually have to repeat this. This bill has nothing to do with Chinese-Elizian economic development, this is a matter of FOREIGN AFFAIRS and it encourages dialogue between our nations as I have already pointed out."

Whether you like it or not, this bill is likely to have some kind of effect on our relationship with China, and on our economic development as a result. You would have to be very naive to think otherwise.

[Nariterrr]

"What about the Philippines, it trades with China, but still condemns and challenges Chinese claims to the South China Sea."

[The Licentian Isles]

"What about the Philippines, it trades with China, but still condemns and challenges Chinese claims to the South China Sea."

We are not in as powerful a position as the Philippines are. The Chinese can do without trading with us.

[Nariterrr]

"What about the Philippines, it trades with China, but still condemns and challenges Chinese claims to the South China Sea."

We are not in as powerful a position as the Philippines are. The Chinese can do without trading with us.

"They can do without trading with the Philippines. We've got the US. And this wont hunder trade with China as it places no restrictions on ANYTHING."

[The Licentian Isles]

We are not in as powerful a position as the Philippines are. The Chinese can do without trading with us.

"They can do without trading with the Philippines and we can do without trading with China. We've got the US. And this wont hunder trade with China as it places no restrictions on ANYTHING."

You're completely missing the point yet again. While this bill itself does not put any restrictions on trade with China, this bill has repercussions which could include China putting restrictions on trade with Elizia. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

[Nariterrr]

"They can do without trading with the Philippines and we can do without trading with China. We've got the US. And this wont hunder trade with China as it places no restrictions on ANYTHING."

You're completely missing the point yet again. While this bill itself does not put any restrictions on trade with China, this bill has repercussions which could include China putting restrictions on trade with Elizia. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

"This bill has no actions. It is merely a bill of opinion in most places. It does not hinder economic development as it has nothing to do with the economy. Do you suggest we continue to allow China to violate international law?"

[The Licentian Isles]

You're completely missing the point yet again. While this bill itself does not put any restrictions on trade with China, this bill has repercussions which could include China putting restrictions on trade with Elizia. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

"This bill has no actions. It is merely a bill of opinion in most places. It does not hinder economic development as it has nothing to do with the economy. Do you suggest we continue to allow China to violate international law?"

No, I do not. I suggest we work within other groups to prevent China violating these laws, rather than putting our fragile economy at risk. Whether you like it or not, this will have an effect on our trade with China. A giant middle finger across the South China Sea will not make people want to spend their money with us.

[Nariterrr]

"This bill has no actions. It is merely a bill of opinion in most places. It does not hinder economic development as it has nothing to do with the economy. Do you suggest we continue to allow China to violate international law?"

No, I do not. I suggest we work within other groups to prevent China violating these laws, rather than putting our fragile economy at risk. Whether you like it or not, this will have an effect on our trade with China. A giant middle finger across the South China Sea will not make people want to spend their money with us.

"But it does NOT put the economy at risk. In fact, my proposal mandates that Elizia and China discuss the South China Sea in order to find an equitable solution. Did you skip over that?"

[Belmaria]

"No part of my bill places any restriction on China, Chinese investments, Chinese business, or anything else. It simply condemns China's actions in the South China Sea."

"For repeadly insulting myself, and my fellow collegues not only on this thread but on the Convention floor in the most unparliamentary manner as such calling us dimwitted, unintellegant and other things, I motion to censure the member and hold her in contempt of this Parliament!"

"I third this motion to censure the Hon. Sa Ri An. She repeatedly insulted the Hon. Ahmed Corbor and my party not once more than three times." Jasmine stood in solidarity with her fellow party member.

I fourth the motion.

[The Sarian]

No, I do not. I suggest we work within other groups to prevent China violating these laws, rather than putting our fragile economy at risk. Whether you like it or not, this will have an effect on our trade with China. A giant middle finger across the South China Sea will not make people want to spend their money with us.

"But it does NOT put the economy at risk. In fact, my proposal mandates that Elizia and China discuss the South China Sea in order to find an equitable solution. Did you skip over that?"

"Mr Speaker, if you permit I would like to read directly from Parliamentary records from what I said earlier today:

Mr Speaker, what international clout does the bill's writer believe we possess? Negotiate with China to present the Elizian opinion! What is this madness, Mr Speaker? Honestly! Mr Speaker, this is misleading Parliament to such an extent that I am of half a mind to motion for the member to be held in contempt! Let me make it clear to this house, as a former ranking member of the Chinese Diplomatic Service, that any delegation of Elizians - a country that does not yet even recognize the People's Republic of China - who came to China in an attempt to negotiate on the South China Sea would be laughed away. Mr Speaker, who the hell does he think we are? "

[The Licentian Isles]

No, I do not. I suggest we work within other groups to prevent China violating these laws, rather than putting our fragile economy at risk. Whether you like it or not, this will have an effect on our trade with China. A giant middle finger across the South China Sea will not make people want to spend their money with us.

"But it does NOT put the economy at risk. In fact, my proposal mandates that Elizia and China discuss the South China Sea in order to find an equitable solution. Did you skip over that?"

You are almost impossible to debate with. You don't seem to understand the simple concept that people aren't likely to play nice when you are criticising their actions on an international stage, or the even simpler concept that your actions have consequences. Do you really think that China won't respond negatively to something like this by stopping investment into our nation, just when it needs foreign support most ??

Also, if you really want to take a leak on China's parade, why draft a bill that does literally nothing ?? That's like walking out in front of a bull wearing solid red spandex and carrying nothing to defend yourself. Why not do something concrete that will actually have an effect on them ??

[Nariterrr]

"But it does NOT put the economy at risk. In fact, my proposal mandates that Elizia and China discuss the South China Sea in order to find an equitable solution. Did you skip over that?"

"Mr Speaker, if you permit I would like to read directly from Parliamentary records from what I said earlier today:

Mr Speaker, what international clout does the bill's writer believe we possess? Negotiate with China to present the Elizian opinion! What is this madness, Mr Speaker? Honestly! Mr Speaker, this is misleading Parliament to such an extent that I am of half a mind to motion for the member to be held in contempt! Let me make it clear to this house, as a former ranking member of the Chinese Diplomatic Service, that any delegation of Elizians - a country that does not yet even recognize the People's Republic of China - who came to China in an attempt to negotiate on the South China Sea would be laughed away. Mr Speaker, who the hell does he think we are? "

That claim is outlandish, the majority of the democratic community, our neighbors are on our side. We can negotiate the same way the Phillipines and China/Vietnam and China do."

[Nariterrr]

"And who says we need China anyway. Why do we need to trade with a brutal and corrupt Communist regime. Why do we need to trade with a country that kills and illegally harvests organs from Falun Dafa practitioners, why do we need to trade with a country that silences people that disagree with the Communist Party. Why the hell are we aligning ourselves with one of the most dictatorial state on this planet? In reality I have little problem with Chinese trade, but just think of what this sickening regime does to people. Mao, the starter of this regime killed 50 million people. I hope your comfortable knowing that!"

[The Licentian Isles]

"And who says we need China anyway. Why do we need to trade with a brutal and corrupt Communist regime. Why do we need to trade with a country that kills and illegally harvests organs from Falun Dafa practitioners, why do we need to trade with a country that silences people that disagree with the Communist Party. Why the hell are we aligning ourselves with one of the most dictatorial state on this planet? In reality I have little problem with Chinese trade, but just think of what this sickening regime does to people. Mao, the starter of this regime killed 50 million people. I hope your comfortable knowing that!"

If you really feel this strongly why draft such a weak bill, that realistically has no real effect on Chinese policy ?? Condemnations have done nothing up to now.

[Nariterrr]

"And who says we need China anyway. Why do we need to trade with a brutal and corrupt Communist regime. Why do we need to trade with a country that kills and illegally harvests organs from Falun Dafa practitioners, why do we need to trade with a country that silences people that disagree with the Communist Party. Why the hell are we aligning ourselves with one of the most dictatorial state on this planet? In reality I have little problem with Chinese trade, but just think of what this sickening regime does to people. Mao, the starter of this regime killed 50 million people. I hope your comfortable knowing that!"

If you really feel this strongly why draft such a weak bill, that realistically has no real effect on Chinese policy ?? Condemnations have done nothing up to now.

Condemnations are setting things straight. I would rather have a bill with SOME condemnation that none. I will not stand by and watch China exploit its dominance over Elizia."

[Belmaria]

"And who says we need China anyway. Why do we need to trade with a brutal and corrupt Communist regime. Why do we need to trade with a country that kills and illegally harvests organs from Falun Dafa practitioners, why do we need to trade with a country that silences people that disagree with the Communist Party. Why the hell are we aligning ourselves with one of the most dictatorial state on this planet? In reality I have little problem with Chinese trade, but just think of what this sickening regime does to people. Mao, the starter of this regime killed 50 million people. I hope your comfortable knowing that!"

If you really feel this strongly why draft such a weak bill, that realistically has no real effect on Chinese policy ?? Condemnations have done nothing up to now.

If you have no problem with the principle, why not vote for the bill? What harm does it cause?

[The Licentian Isles]

If you really feel this strongly why draft such a weak bill, that realistically has no real effect on Chinese policy ?? Condemnations have done nothing up to now.

If you have no problem with the principle, why not vote for the bill? What harm does it cause?

I have a problem with the principle. I was simply trying to question the senator on why he didn't draft a stronger bill if he feels so strongly about China.

[Maklohi Vai]

If you really feel this strongly why draft such a weak bill, that realistically has no real effect on Chinese policy ?? Condemnations have done nothing up to now.

If you have no problem with the principle, why not vote for the bill? What harm does it cause?

"Mister Speaker, I must question if the honorable members listened to Sa Ri An's speech at all. I also wish to state my support for her argument, though not necessarily her tone. It appears we made strides since the IMF disaster, what with joining WTO at all, but to pass this bill would further set us back, even greater than the first mistake we made. Severely decreasing trade with China will have enormous repercussions on the Elizian economy, and I cannot in good conscience vote for that."

[Belmaria]

If you have no problem with the principle, why not vote for the bill? What harm does it cause?

I have a problem with the principle. I was simply trying to question the senator on why he didn't draft a stronger bill if he feels so strongly about China.

And what, exactly, is your problem with condemning a corrupt and authoritarian regime that has resulted in the pain and suffering of hundreds of millions of people?

[The Sarian]

If you really feel this strongly why draft such a weak bill, that realistically has no real effect on Chinese policy ?? Condemnations have done nothing up to now.

If you have no problem with the principle, why not vote for the bill? What harm does it cause?

"Mr Speaker, can I just repeat the words of the honourable(!) member for posterity. What harm does it cause.

What harm does it cause.

What harm does it cause.

Mr Speaker, this goes beyond naiviety and into delusion. The harm this will cause will be to the poorest people in our country, who need Chinese FDI.

The harm this will cause will be to our underfunded roads and infrastructure, that needs Chinese money.

The harm this will cause will be to any standing we will gain in our region.

What harm does it cause? A great deal, Mr Speaker, a great deal."

[The Licentian Isles]

I have a problem with the principle. I was simply trying to question the senator on why he didn't draft a stronger bill if he feels so strongly about China.

And what, exactly, is your problem with condemning a corrupt and authoritarian regime that has resulted in the pain and suffering of hundreds of millions of people?

That we would be risking our economy simply to spit in the face of someone you don't like. Either do it properly and do something about the Chinese aggression, or back off and don't bother risking the investment into our economy. This halfway house takes the worst of both.

[Nariterrr]

If you have no problem with the principle, why not vote for the bill? What harm does it cause?

"Mr Speaker, can I just repeat the words of the honourable(!) member for posterity. What harm does it cause.

What harm does it cause.

What harm does it cause.

Mr Speaker, this goes beyond naiviety and into delusion. The harm this will cause will be to the poorest people in our country, who need Chinese FDI.

The harm this will cause will be to our underfunded roads and infrastructure, that needs Chinese money.

The harm this will cause will be to any standing we will gain in our region.

What harm does it cause? A great deal, Mr Speaker, a great deal."

"my proposal does not put any restrictions on the economy. I have said this so many times. It encourages Elizia and China to talk!"

[The Licentian Isles]

"Mr Speaker, can I just repeat the words of the honourable(!) member for posterity. What harm does it cause.

What harm does it cause.

What harm does it cause.

Mr Speaker, this goes beyond naiviety and into delusion. The harm this will cause will be to the poorest people in our country, who need Chinese FDI.

The harm this will cause will be to our underfunded roads and infrastructure, that needs Chinese money.

The harm this will cause will be to any standing we will gain in our region.

What harm does it cause? A great deal, Mr Speaker, a great deal."

"my proposal DOES not put any restrictions on the economy. I have said this so many times. It encourages Elizia and China to talk!"

Repeating it does not make it any less stupid.