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[NSGS] Elizia Constitutional Convention

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Britanno 2
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Founded: Apr 08, 2015
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Postby Britanno 2 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:46 pm

Nariterrr wrote:1) It makes more sense, especially since we are a Parliamentary Republic.

I know, but we are the NSG Senate. I suppose it's more of a technicality and at the end of the day people will end up calling each other what they like.

2) That clause is to stop the mixing between the executive branch and the legislative branch. However, my proposal on the executive does make an exception to this clause (cabinet members)

My only issue with that is that if another executive proposal passes but this legislative one does, we may be in an awkward situation. I suppose we could amend it if we did do that though.

3) The majority of countries do it.

Fair enough.

5) It's a check against the President declaring war on his own will, most countries have this rule too.

I agree with the need for Parliament to approve military action, I just don't think a two thirds majority should be required and I think there should be a clause that Parliament can only declare war if the President allows it, otherwise we could be in a situation where Parliament starts a war that the President doesn't support, so the President, as commander-in-chief, simply refuses to commit troops to the war.

9) For example, 15 people have to vote to make a bill a law, it doesn't apply for things like debate, only voting.

Ah, I see. In complete agreement then.

16) This rule is in place in many countries, we don't have jails

I'm not that bothered by it, it's just if someone gets impeached then that OOC player has to create a new character if they want to participate in the RP. Seems a little unfair. Plus political comebacks could be fun.

Thanks for taking all my other comments on board. Even if you don't agree with the comments above I think this proposal is still very good and will support it.
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:04 pm

I know, but we are the NSG Senate. I suppose it's more of a technicality and at the end of the day people will end up calling each other what they like.


I see your point, but think of Calvarde. If it really bothers you I'm happy to change it.

My only issue with that is that if another executive proposal passes but this legislative one does, we may be in an awkward situation. I suppose we could amend it if we did do that though.

I'll amend the section to allow ministers to be MP's.


I agree with the need for Parliament to approve military action, I just don't think a two thirds majority should be required and I think there should be a clause that Parliament can only declare war if the President allows it, otherwise we could be in a situation where Parliament starts a war that the President doesn't support, so the President, as commander-in-chief, simply refuses to commit troops to the war.


Good point, I'll add the clause which requires the approval of the President. However, I will remind you that it is a 3/5 majority. This is to make sure that it is a non-partisan issue.

I'm not that bothered by it, it's just if someone gets impeached then that OOC player has to create a new character if they want to participate in the RP. Seems a little unfair. Plus political comebacks could be fun.


What do you suggest I should change it to?

Thanks for taking all my other comments on board. Even if you don't agree with the comments above I think this proposal is still very good and will support it.

Great to hear!
Last edited by Nariterrr on Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:25 pm

"It is my pleasure to introduce an alternative proposal for the legislative branch, which may be viewed here, that I believe corrects and addresses many of the concerns of my colleague's proposal and does in general improve the legislative framework and parliamentary procedures through an omnibus system, revamped Speakership, clear system of government bills, and parliamentary immunity."
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:30 pm

United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:"It is my pleasure to introduce an alternative proposal for the legislative branch, which may be viewed here, that I believe corrects and addresses many of the concerns of my colleague's proposal and does in general improve the legislative framework and parliamentary procedures through an omnibus system, revamped Speakership, clear system of government bills, and parliamentary immunity."

How is this any different from my proposal?
Honestly who knows what about anything anymore.

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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:35 pm

Nariterrr wrote:
United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:"It is my pleasure to introduce an alternative proposal for the legislative branch, which may be viewed here, that I believe corrects and addresses many of the concerns of my colleague's proposal and does in general improve the legislative framework and parliamentary procedures through an omnibus system, revamped Speakership, clear system of government bills, and parliamentary immunity."

How is this any different from my proposal?

"This proposal modifies and clearly regulates the Speaker system, creates an omnibus system for debate and voting, creates a system for government bills and categorisation of bills, clearly regulates the queue, establishes a system for questions to the head of government, and lastly establishes parliamentary immunity. The omnibus and queue systems are in particular the main deviations from your proposal, as an omnibus system would radically alter the landscape of parliamentary procedure, and categorisation in particular would allow for bills on a wide range of topics to be debated every week."
Last edited by United Provinces of Atlantica on Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Belmaria
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Postby Belmaria » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:36 pm

United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:
Nariterrr wrote:How is this any different from my proposal?

"This proposal modifies and clearly regulates the Speaker system, creates parliamentary immunity, creates an omnibus system for debate and voting, creates a system for government bills and categorisation of bills, clearly regulates the queue, establishes a system for questions to the head of government, and lastly establishes parliamentary immunity. The omnibus and queue systems are in particular the main deviations from your proposal, as an omnibus system would radically alter the landscape of parliamentary procedure, and categorisation in particular would allow for bills on a wide range of topics to be debated every week."

"You mentioned parliamentary immunity twice."
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:38 pm

United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:
Nariterrr wrote:How is this any different from my proposal?

"This proposal modifies and clearly regulates the Speaker system, creates parliamentary immunity, creates an omnibus system for debate and voting, creates a system for government bills and categorisation of bills, clearly regulates the queue, establishes a system for questions to the head of government, and lastly establishes parliamentary immunity. The omnibus and queue systems are in particular the main deviations from your proposal, as an omnibus system would radically alter the landscape of parliamentary procedure, and categorisation in particular would allow for bills on a wide range of topics to be debated every week."

"My proposal already has Parliamentary immunity"
Honestly who knows what about anything anymore.

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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:39 pm

Belmaria wrote:
United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:"This proposal modifies and clearly regulates the Speaker system, creates parliamentary immunity, creates an omnibus system for debate and voting, creates a system for government bills and categorisation of bills, clearly regulates the queue, establishes a system for questions to the head of government, and lastly establishes parliamentary immunity. The omnibus and queue systems are in particular the main deviations from your proposal, as an omnibus system would radically alter the landscape of parliamentary procedure, and categorisation in particular would allow for bills on a wide range of topics to be debated every week."

"You mentioned parliamentary immunity twice."

"I thank you for your correction of my mistake."
Nariterrr wrote:
United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:"This proposal modifies and clearly regulates the Speaker system, creates parliamentary immunity, creates an omnibus system for debate and voting, creates a system for government bills and categorisation of bills, clearly regulates the queue, establishes a system for questions to the head of government, and lastly establishes parliamentary immunity. The omnibus and queue systems are in particular the main deviations from your proposal, as an omnibus system would radically alter the landscape of parliamentary procedure, and categorisation in particular would allow for bills on a wide range of topics to be debated every week."

"My proposal already has Parliamentary immunity"

"Regardless, my proposal establishes several deviations from yours that make our two proposals markedly different."
Last edited by United Provinces of Atlantica on Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Britanno 2
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Postby Britanno 2 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:35 pm

You could probably merge the two together - they seem to be the exact same just with a little bit more on the speaker and the queue in Atlantica's.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:04 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:I know, but we are the NSG Senate. I suppose it's more of a technicality and at the end of the day people will end up calling each other what they like.

We haven't been a Senate since Aurentina.

Baltonian Seimas.
Calaverdean Parliament.
Dagmari Parliament.

Plus, it makes little sense for a unicameral legislature to be called a Senate.

And on that note, we are also the NSG Senate, but we have absolutely no relation to NSG anymore.
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Britanno 2
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Postby Britanno 2 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:15 am

Ainin wrote:
Britanno 2 wrote:I know, but we are the NSG Senate. I suppose it's more of a technicality and at the end of the day people will end up calling each other what they like.

We haven't been a Senate since Aurentina.

Baltonian Seimas.
Calaverdean Parliament.
Dagmari Parliament.

Plus, it makes little sense for a unicameral legislature to be called a Senate.

And on that note, we are also the NSG Senate, but we have absolutely no relation to NSG anymore.

Yeah but that's only because we let GN write all our constitutions :p

I just think that if we always end up calling one another senators we might as well have it that way officially.
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Belmaria
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Postby Belmaria » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:33 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
Ainin wrote:We haven't been a Senate since Aurentina.

Baltonian Seimas.
Calaverdean Parliament.
Dagmari Parliament.

Plus, it makes little sense for a unicameral legislature to be called a Senate.

And on that note, we are also the NSG Senate, but we have absolutely no relation to NSG anymore.

Yeah but that's only because we let GN write all our constitutions :p

I just think that if we always end up calling one another senators we might as well have it that way officially.

I want to be an MP. My signature already says I'm an MP, we're unicameral so being a Senate doesn't make any sense, and MP sounds cooler than Senator. I think a good name for our body would be "National Assembly".
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The Sarian
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Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:35 pm

Belmaria wrote:
Britanno 2 wrote:Yeah but that's only because we let GN write all our constitutions :p

I just think that if we always end up calling one another senators we might as well have it that way officially.

I want to be an MP. My signature already says I'm an MP, we're unicameral so being a Senate doesn't make any sense, and MP sounds cooler than Senator. I think a good name for our body would be "National Assembly".

Surley National Assemby would make you an Assemblymember? That would give you the post-nominal letters of AM on MNA, not MP.
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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:00 pm

It is my pleasure to announce that my colleague and I have been working together in creating a combined legislative draft that incorporates the best elements of our two bills. Our previous proposals are both nullified and our combined proposal is available here.
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:28 am

The Sixth Day is now over. We will move onto the Seventh Day, where the Convention shall draft and submit proposals regarding the executive. Deliberation shall last 72 hours.
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:19 am

Mr. President, It is my honor to present this bill before the convention - here

A few things to note -

1) the power of the President is checked multiple times. For example, every single executive action taken by the President except for granting Assent to Money Bills can be overridden by the Parliament. He is a leadership figure, the bill is set up to allow the cabinet to run day to day government business.

2) As mentioned, the cabinet is responsible for running the government with the approval and oversight of the President.

3) The President is subject to the confidence of the Parliament and can be voted out of office with a simple majority. He can also be impeached.
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The Sarian
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Postby The Sarian » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:31 am

Sa Ri An stood up, "This was clearly written by an eleven year old with learning difficulties".

Sa Ri An sat down.
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Maklohi Vai
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Postby Maklohi Vai » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:49 am

Abraham Kamassi thought to himself: "Well, if we wanted to have a government as effective as the pile of cow dung they have in Washington, this is an excellent start."

He said, "Thank you for the proposal. It is highly original in its structure."
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:06 am

The Sarian wrote:Sa Ri An stood up, "This was clearly written by an eleven year old with learning difficulties".

Sa Ri An sat down.

"Then I challenge the member to draft his own proposal and see how he fairs."
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:25 am

Maklohi Vai wrote:Abraham Kamassi thought to himself: "Well, if we wanted to have a government as effective as the pile of cow dung they have in Washington, this is an excellent start."

He said, "Thank you for the proposal. It is highly original in its structure."

"Thank you, it is based off of the South African system, Washington system and part of the directorial system, if you were wondering."
Last edited by Nariterrr on Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:48 am

"What is with this convention and its desire to plagiarize Indian law?"
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:53 am

Ainin wrote:"What is with this convention and its desire to plagiarize Indian law?"

It is worded the same way as the Indian constitution. The member should note that the Constitution of India establishes Parliamentary Democracy, not Presidental.

(OOC: the Indian Constitution is the largest and most detailed constitution out there with more than 400 pages. So it's not surprising people would want to take parts from it.)
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:01 am

"Now more than ever is the necessity of a comprehensive education bill patently clear, as it seems that our own parliamentarians have never had a secondary school lesson in academic integrity."
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Nariterrr
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Postby Nariterrr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:04 am

Ainin wrote:"Now more than ever is the necessity of a comprehensive education bill patently clear, as it seems that our own parliamentarians have never had a secondary school lesson in academic integrity."

"Yet you plagiarized Calvarde's own ad hoc committees act and admitted it. You are a hypocrite. No wonder it went no where."
Last edited by Nariterrr on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:06 am

One cannot plagiarize themselves.

EDIT: How is that even remotely IC?
Last edited by Ainin on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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