The First Cabinet of Calaverde [NSG Senate]

[The Nihilistic view]

d) The definition of 'taxable income' Primary Revenue Act shall be amended from 'income from employment, wages, salaries, commissions and self-employment earnings' to 'income from employment, wages, salaries, commissions, self-employment earnings, and inheritances from an estate that is not wholly inherited by a spouse or surviving civil partner'.

Haven't you just effectively double taxed it now?

One is an estate tax paid by large estates before any inheritances are distributed, another is a tax paid by individuals who receive inheritances, counting it as normal income. However if an estate is entirely left to a surviving spouse it will be wholly exempt from both estate tax and income tax.

I guess you could look at it as 'double taxation' but lots of things are 'double taxed'. For example companies pay corporate tax but then individuals still have to pay tax on dividends.

That's not the same. They are taxes on two different actions one of which might not follow the other or not depending on the actions of the board. In this instance the charging both inheritance tax and income tax is as a result of the same event.

[Great Nepal]

I have to say, although the criminal code bill is in the chamber - reading over it one more time I am not sure... Obviously this statement isn't going to come out in the chamber and at present I will abstain rather than vote against government bill but soliciting shouldn't be a crime - assuming all parties are consenting adults there is absolutely no reason why buying sex should be illegal.
Plus the general clauses are just calling for prosecutor to abuse (OOC: obviously I would never dream of using loopholes in law to bolster up charges unnecessarily *nods*), I mean for example if during scuffle a protester got knocked out and his friend removed the unconscious person from the scene, prosecutor could charge him with kidnapping (unconscious person couldn't have given consent) while if he leaves his concious friend there prosecutor could charge him with criminal neglect (arguing that unconscious friend was a dependant due to the circumstances of the friend and was abandoned). Handy trick to crush protesters but I dont think that is our intent...

[Argentarino]

I have to say, although the criminal code bill is in the chamber - reading over it one more time I am not sure... Obviously this statement isn't going to come out in the chamber and at present I will abstain rather than vote against government bill but soliciting shouldn't be a crime - assuming all parties are consenting adults there is absolutely no reason why buying sex should be illegal.
Plus the general clauses are just calling for prosecutor to abuse (OOC: obviously I would never dream of using loopholes in law to bolster up charges unnecessarily *nods*), I mean for example if during scuffle a protester got knocked out and his friend removed the unconscious person from the scene, prosecutor could charge him with kidnapping (unconscious person couldn't have given consent) while if he leaves his concious friend there prosecutor could charge him with criminal neglect (arguing that unconscious friend was a dependant due to the circumstances of the friend and was abandoned). Handy trick to crush protesters but I dont think that is our intent...

Maybe not our's, but we should think about future governments...I think I'll abstain on that code as well.

[Valluto]

I understand the law has shortcomings. I am not a lawyer and it is my first bill but I would urge both of you to vote aye. I am willing to accept amendments so long as they are technical in nature and do not fundamentally change the bill.

[Lykens]

Prostitution should be legal, regulated, and taxed.

More revenue for us, and people get away with some pleasure.

Edit: It isn't going to go away, and criminalizing it only gives power to criminals. Same with marijuana.

[Valluto]

I wish some of these concerns were raised before I submitted the bill to the Speaker.

[Lykens]

I wish some of these concerns were raised before I submitted the bill to the Speaker.

You can amend it up until we begin voting on it.

[Great Nepal]

I wish some of these concerns were raised before I submitted the bill to the Speaker.

Yes, that seems to be a general issue - but there is still time. Quick fix to technical issue would be to add in a clause saying "these shall be interpreted in manner consistent with English common law" but prostitution clause should be removed entirely - legalize it, regulate it and tax it.

Alternatively to apply comprehensive technical fix, one way would be to just withdraw the bill so as to continue consultation on divisive issue of prostitution - it will look like you are listing to concerns which is why you are not putting bill to vote yet - no bad PR.

[The Nihilistic view]

I wish some of these concerns were raised before I submitted the bill to the Speaker.

You can make as many amendments as you like. You just have to submit them to me it's no trouble. If you do I just have to post to say it's amended and put it in a new link. This is what debate is really for, final scrutiny of the bill. It does not have to be perfect before being submitted.

[Estva]

Hey guys, sorry I have been gone for a little while. I had a family emergency so I couldn't really login, however, I did browse the forum for a few minutes at a time to ensure there weren't any calamities that needed my immediate attention.

Is there anything you wish em to do, other than the normal party matters?

[Atlanticatia]

I also support the legalisation, regulation, and taxation of prostitution but perhaps we should pass a basic code first and then pass a comprehensive prostitution regulation bill.

[Lykens]

I also support the legalisation, regulation, and taxation of prostitution but perhaps we should pass a basic code first and then pass a comprehensive prostitution regulation bill.

That was my thought.

I was tempted to start writing one, but I wasn't sure if that would be a government priority or not.

[Atlanticatia]

I also support the legalisation, regulation, and taxation of prostitution but perhaps we should pass a basic code first and then pass a comprehensive prostitution regulation bill.

That was my thought.

I was tempted to start writing one, but I wasn't sure if that would be a government priority or not.

I'd support it.

I was thinking of some ideas and think the Government a sort of state-sanctioned sex worker's association that all sex workers would be required to belong to, and a ban on exploitative procuring/pimping, too. Also mandate contraception and/or mandate STD/STI testing every 3 months or something. Strong safety protections. Place extra taxes on prostitution.

[Lykens]

That was my thought.

I was tempted to start writing one, but I wasn't sure if that would be a government priority or not.

I'd support it.

I was thinking of some ideas and think the Government a sort of state-sanctioned sex worker's association that all sex workers would be required to belong to, and a ban on exploitative procuring/pimping, too. Also mandate contraception and/or mandate STD/STI testing every 3 months or something. Strong safety protections. Place extra taxes on prostitution.

Taxation on prostitution.

Would we tax the johns, or the pimps and madames? How would we tax johns? Do they go to a register after they're done and get ringed up?

[Valluto]

That was my thought.

I was tempted to start writing one, but I wasn't sure if that would be a government priority or not.

I'd support it.

I was thinking of some ideas and think the Government a sort of state-sanctioned sex worker's association that all sex workers would be required to belong to, and a ban on exploitative procuring/pimping, too. Also mandate contraception and/or mandate STD/STI testing every 3 months or something. Strong safety protections. Place extra taxes on prostitution.

I'm no opposed to this. I would be willing to work with you on this. My main concern is for the welfare of the workers.

[Britanno]

I'm no opposed to this. I would be willing to work with you on this. My main concern is for the welfare of the workers.

Yeah, they're going to be a lot safer when they're off the streets.

[Atlanticatia]

I'm no opposed to this. I would be willing to work with you on this. My main concern is for the welfare of the workers.

Yeah, they're going to be a lot safer when they're off the streets.

And they also won't fear going to the police if they have a negative incident with a client, or fear for their well-being.

[The Nihilistic view]

That was my thought.

I was tempted to start writing one, but I wasn't sure if that would be a government priority or not.

I'd support it.

I was thinking of some ideas and think the Government a sort of state-sanctioned sex worker's association that all sex workers would be required to belong to, and a ban on exploitative procuring/pimping, too. Also mandate contraception and/or mandate STD/STI testing every 3 months or something. Strong safety protections. Place extra taxes on prostitution.

Just saying that under a voluntary testing scheme in the US porn industry tests are done for things like HIV and other STDs every 30 days. So yeah I would recommend you have at least as tight restrictions as a voluntary porn system.

[Atlanticatia]

Holy shit, the Universal Healthcare Act passed 41-17. That's a huge margin!

More than 70% of voting senators voted aye, to create a public, single payer health care system, that is free at the point of use.

I was actually expecting a close vote.

[Atlanticatia]

Also, I've been thinking a bit about Nihil's concerns regarding the Estate Tax. Right now the bill submitted has the Estate Tax saying the following:

§ 3 - Estate Tax

a) Upon the death of a Calaverdean tax resident, Estate Tax must be paid on the worldwide 'net worth' of the estate (assets of the estate minus the liabilities). This is called the 'taxable estate'. Usually, the executor of the will or the administrator of the estate will pay the Estate Tax with funds from the estate.
b) Estate Tax will be paid at the following marginal rates:

The net worth of the estate from $0-$500,000: 0%
The net worth of the estate from $500,001-$1,500,000: 33%
The net worth of the estate from $1,500,001-$5,000,000: 45%
The net worth of the estate in excess of $5,000,000: 60%

c) Estates will be entirely exempt from tax if the estate is wholly left to a surviving spouse or civil partner, and the 'taxable estate' will be reduced to nil.
d) The definition of 'taxable income' Primary Revenue Act shall be amended from 'income from employment, wages, salaries, commissions and self-employment earnings' to 'income from employment, wages, salaries, commissions, self-employment earnings, and inheritances from an estate that is not wholly inherited by a spouse or surviving civil partner'.
e) If at least 25% of the net worth of an estate is donated to a charitable organization, a nonrefundable tax credit shall be paid to the estate for up to 50% of the amount donated to a charitable organization.

I am not going to be changing the 'Estate Tax' at all. However what I have some concerns about is bolded.
Basically this will mean that anyone, who isn't the spouse of the deceased, who receives an inheritance will pay income tax on the whole inheritance as if it were wage income, after the Estate has been taxed too.

I did some calculations where in one case, let's imagine a $10 million estate. First estate tax will be paid, which will come out to taxes $4.905 million, which is about 49%, I'd say a fair amount for an estate that large. Let's say the remaining $5.1 million is left entirely to one child. The child would then pay $2.539 million in income tax, or 49.8%. So the net inheritance is about $2.56 million.
That means that on a $10 million estate wholly left to one non-spouse, about $7.44 million will go to State coffers, or an effective tax rate of 74.4%.

Does anyone think I should leave it like this, or should I make it so only the Estate is taxed, before the distribution of inheritances, and then inheritances are exempt from income tax? Or maybe put in a sizable income tax exemption for inheritances of like $5-10 million or something?

I'd like to hear your opinions before this revenue bill goes to debate..

[The Nihilistic view]

The problem I have is it fucks over small and medium family businesses. To the point where some are facing effective marginal rates of 84%. I still think people will struggle with a marginal rate of 45-60%. This really will bugger them up and lead to large companies and multi nationals monopolising the market as family owned small and medium companies will have to sell up to be able to pay the taxes.

For example in the UK inheritance tax relief can be claimed and granted by HMRC on up to 100% of that deemed payable on a business to make sure that no family loses their business over it.

I also think a marginal rate of 84% will just send rich people abroad or make then avoid tax.

[Atlanticatia]

The problem I have is it fucks over small and medium family businesses. To the point where some are facing effective marginal rates of 84%. I still think people will struggle with a marginal rate of 45-60%. This really will bugger them up and lead to large companies and multi nationals monopolising the market as family owned small and medium companies will have to sell up to be able to pay the taxes.

For example in the UK inheritance tax relief can be claimed and granted by HMRC on up to 100% of that deemed payable on a business to make sure that no family loses their business over it.

I also think a marginal rate of 84% will just send rich people abroad or make then avoid tax.

*Most* people wouldn't really see an effective rate like that unless they had large inheritances and were the only benefactor.

I am open to removing tax on inheritances but I don't really want to change the estate tax, unless it could be done in a way that isn't going to end up creating a tax avoidance loophole. But I think a 60% marginal rate on amounts above $5 million is very reasonable.

[Atlanticatia]

No one has an opinion?

[Malgrave]

I've posted early details of the upcoming tour of Central America.

[Geilinor]

The problem I have is it fucks over small and medium family businesses. To the point where some are facing effective marginal rates of 84%. I still think people will struggle with a marginal rate of 45-60%. This really will bugger them up and lead to large companies and multi nationals monopolising the market as family owned small and medium companies will have to sell up to be able to pay the taxes.

For example in the UK inheritance tax relief can be claimed and granted by HMRC on up to 100% of that deemed payable on a business to make sure that no family loses their business over it.

I also think a marginal rate of 84% will just send rich people abroad or make then avoid tax.

If that's the case, we should consider lowering it. But you were the one who came up with it, iirc.