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NSG Senate Chamber: I came, I saw, I cleaned up after myself

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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:14 pm

Davincia wrote:
Ainin wrote:"Next up is the Second Government Budget Act, proposed by the Right Honourable Michael Giuliani, Minister of Economic Affairs, of the Democratic Left."

"Adrius deserves no separate spending from the rest of the nation, otherwise we'd throw extra money at every cultural subregion." Abraham tries not to look at the bill directly, for fear of fainting from overspending.

"For someone so outspoken in their critique of the government, I would've figured that you of all people would be aware of the Ministry for Adrian Affairs, Mister Blakesman."
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Britanno 2
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Postby Britanno 2 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:16 pm

Nvm
Last edited by Britanno 2 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Heraklea-
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Founded: Jun 29, 2013
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Postby Heraklea- » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:17 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:"Could the government please justify the tiny amount spent on much-needed infrastructure projects that will help encourage growth in the economy and provide jobs for hardworking people?"

"That is administrative costs. You will note that there is billions in capital spending for infrastructure projects built into this budget."

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Lykens
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Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:18 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:"Could the government please justify the tiny amount spent on much-needed infrastructure projects that will help encourage growth in the economy and provide jobs for hardworking people?"

"Can the right honorable member justify the blatant lack of attention the opposition parties are paying to the bill at hand?"
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Ainin
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:23 pm

The Sarian wrote:
Ainin wrote:Pierre chimes in.

"I believe that's 12 million, Madam President."

And I believe your job is to be seen not heard until someone breaks a standing order.

"As Speaker, I oversee the corps of parliamentary aides and staffers that see to it that you are all delivered a copy of the bill on the floor in order, and would like to be assured that it is correct and has no transcription errors that may impede coherence or understanding, which accidentally changing a M to B or using incorrect symbols to mark decimals would be. If Her Excellency the President would rather not have the correct version of the day's agenda, it is at her discretion..."

"...but a please wouldn't hurt."
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
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Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:25 pm

Lykens wrote:
Britanno 2 wrote:"Could the government please justify the tiny amount spent on much-needed infrastructure projects that will help encourage growth in the economy and provide jobs for hardworking people?"

"Can the right honorable member justify the blatant lack of attention the opposition parties are paying to the bill at hand?"

You're deflecting every criticism with a bad joke instead of actually answering concerns. We're a reasonable bunch, if you can justify what you're doing we'll vote for it but you seem completely incapable to do so.
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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
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Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:26 pm

The Sarian wrote:And I believe your job is to be seen not heard until someone breaks a standing order.
Lykens wrote:"Does her Excellency the President believe that ministries can be combined at the drop of a hat? Because if so, her reality might not be as realistic as she likes to think."

The budget was written after the departments merged.

"The announcement of the merger, Madame President."
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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
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Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:27 pm

The Sarian wrote:
Lykens wrote:"Can the right honorable member justify the blatant lack of attention the opposition parties are paying to the bill at hand?"

You're deflecting every criticism with a bad joke instead of actually answering concerns. We're a reasonable bunch, if you can justify what you're doing we'll vote for it but you seem completely incapable to do so.

"If the Opposition can not read the bill completely and find that the Ministry of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport receives nearly twelve billion dollars in capital spending, I can not help them, Madame President. They've become a joke worse than I can sling at that point."
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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
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Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:28 pm

Lykens wrote:
The Sarian wrote:And I believe your job is to be seen not heard until someone breaks a standing order.
The budget was written after the departments merged.

"The announcement of the merger, Madame President."

If the departments haven't yet merged then the Honourable Minister for Economic Affairs is not yet in his position so can not yet present a budget.
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Arkolon
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Founded: May 04, 2013
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Postby Arkolon » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:31 pm

"Can the government answer why our investment budget has remained stagnant despite huge increases in the size of the economy, tax receipts, and the need for infrastructure projects to be built? Why is it that oh-so-suddenly something that seemed to have been an integral part of this government's commitment to sustainable and reliable growth has been cast aside, not receiving any increases despite its obvious need and, most importantly, promise?"
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Britanno 2
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Founded: Apr 08, 2015
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Postby Britanno 2 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:34 pm

"A key promise of this government was to help protect the environment. Can it explain how the $3 billion budget for the environment, energy and science will be spent?"
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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:40 pm

The Sarian wrote:
Lykens wrote:"The announcement of the merger, Madame President."

If the departments haven't yet merged then the Honourable Minister for Economic Affairs is not yet in his position so can not yet present a budget.

"Madame President, I would never stoop to the level of implying one's density is equal to that of Boris Johnson, but you are pushing dangerously close to that level. The budget was presented at the announcement of the ministries, which have already begun the process of a merger. Individuals will need to move their belongings to new offices, some staff will have to be let go. It will be a process, not a drop of the hat procedure that her Excellency seems to think will happen. It is not over yet, but it has begun."
Arkolon wrote:"Can the government answer why our investment budget has remained stagnant despite huge increases in the size of the economy, tax receipts, and the need for infrastructure projects to be built? Why is it that oh-so-suddenly something that seemed to have been an integral part of this government's commitment to sustainable and reliable growth has been cast aside, not receiving any increases despite its obvious need and, most importantly, promise?"

"The capital spending for the Ministry of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport has increased by two hundred million dollars from the last budget passed by the O'Hara Administration, which I'm assuming the Member is referring to, as the previous Marino Administration absolutely butchered whatever they attempted to do.

Under Javier Escuella our late former Minsiter of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport, the ministry was tasked with overhauling the crumbling infrastructure we were fortunate to inherit from the Junta. Quite obviously these projects are not done, and need to be continued. That being said, similar amounts of work need to be done, and doubling the budget when the same amount as before is needed is pointless."
Britanno 2 wrote:"A key promise of this government was to help protect the environment. Can it explain how the $3 billion budget for the environment, energy and science will be spent?"

"Our esteemed Minister of Environment, Energy, and Science Salvador O'Hara is working on an extensive bill to protect and preserve the beautiful environment of Calaverde, I would direct you to him for more information, as that is not my forte."
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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Lykens wrote:
The Sarian wrote:If the departments haven't yet merged then the Honourable Minister for Economic Affairs is not yet in his position so can not yet present a budget.

"Madame President, I would never stoop to the level of implying one's density is equal to that of Boris Johnson, but you are pushing dangerously close to that level. The budget was presented at the announcement of the ministries, which have already begun the process of a merger. Individuals will need to move their belongings to new offices, some staff will have to be let go. It will be a process, not a drop of the hat procedure that her Excellency seems to think will happen. It is not over yet, but it has begun."
You can't have it both ways. Government doesn't run on an a la carte menu of what suits you.
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Britanno 2
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Founded: Apr 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Britanno 2 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:50 pm

Lykens wrote:"Our esteemed Minister of Environment, Energy, and Science Salvador O'Hara is working on an extensive bill to protect and preserve the beautiful environment of Calaverde, I would direct you to him for more information, as that is not my forte."

"If a government MP is unable to explain the government's position on the environment it doesn't exactly inspire confidence."
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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:52 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
Lykens wrote:"Our esteemed Minister of Environment, Energy, and Science Salvador O'Hara is working on an extensive bill to protect and preserve the beautiful environment of Calaverde, I would direct you to him for more information, as that is not my forte."

"If a government MP is unable to explain the government's position on the environment it doesn't exactly inspire confidence."

"I apologize for not knowing the exact text of the bill word for word, I will aspire to do that in the future to please an Opposition MP who can't even be bothered to finish reading the budget."
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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
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Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:52 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
Lykens wrote:"Our esteemed Minister of Environment, Energy, and Science Salvador O'Hara is working on an extensive bill to protect and preserve the beautiful environment of Calaverde, I would direct you to him for more information, as that is not my forte."

"If a government MP is unable to explain the government's position on the environment it doesn't exactly inspire confidence."

"A government MP wishing to become Prime Minister, no less."
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Britanno 2
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Postby Britanno 2 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:54 pm

Lykens wrote:"I apologize for not knowing the exact text of the bill word for word, I will aspire to do that in the future to please an Opposition MP who can't even be bothered to finish reading the budget."

"Nobody's asking for the text of the bill. We're simply asking for what the government plan for the environment is. Put aside rhetoric for once and get started on policy, which seems to have been missing this term."
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Arkolon
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Posts: 9498
Founded: May 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arkolon » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:58 pm

Lykens wrote:
Arkolon wrote:"Can the government answer why our investment budget has remained stagnant despite huge increases in the size of the economy, tax receipts, and the need for infrastructure projects to be built? Why is it that oh-so-suddenly something that seemed to have been an integral part of this government's commitment to sustainable and reliable growth has been cast aside, not receiving any increases despite its obvious need and, most importantly, promise?"

"The capital spending for the Ministry of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport has increased by two hundred million dollars from the last budget passed by the O'Hara Administration

"No it hasn't, and total investment spending was in fact cut by $200 million. Can the government tell us where these cuts are being made and why the capital spending budget is being cut?"

as the previous Marino Administration absolutely butchered whatever they attempted to do.

"That's very rich coming from a member of a government that is prepared to cut the investment budget and only increase the welfare budget by ~3%-- compared to Marino's promise of 30% more capital spending and twice the increase in welfare."

"Under Javier Escuella our late former Minsiter of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport, the ministry was tasked with overhauling the crumbling infrastructure we were fortunate to inherit from the Junta. Quite obviously these projects are not done, and need to be continued. That being said, similar amounts of work need to be done, and doubling the budget when the same amount as before is needed is pointless."

"Is the Honourable Member not aware of what exactly capital spending is in fact spent on? Capital spending is money that goes into new roads, new rail tracks, new bridges, new buildings, new water works, new pipes, new connections, new opportunities and new horizons. It is through capital spending that we breathe life into our economy by connecting businesses and expanding their growth prospects; it is through capital spending that we expand our economy by giving it a gentle push forwards. Capital spending isn't just about building roads. Capital spending is about the multiplier effect that follows that: it is about stimulus, it is about growth, it is about the general welfare of the country. And when that takes a back seat in any government, Mr Diaz, the people have every right to be concerned."
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:58 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
Lykens wrote:"I apologize for not knowing the exact text of the bill word for word, I will aspire to do that in the future to please an Opposition MP who can't even be bothered to finish reading the budget."

"Nobody's asking for the text of the bill. We're simply asking for what the government plan for the environment is. Put aside rhetoric for once and get started on policy, which seems to have been missing this term."

"Banning fracking is something I can recall the Environment Minister saying, in addition to signing the Kyoto Protocol, if I can remember our discussion correctly."
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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:01 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
Lykens wrote:"I apologize for not knowing the exact text of the bill word for word, I will aspire to do that in the future to please an Opposition MP who can't even be bothered to finish reading the budget."

"Nobody's asking for the text of the bill. We're simply asking for what the government plan for the environment is. Put aside rhetoric for once and get started on policy, which seems to have been missing this term."

Hear, hear.
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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
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Postby The Sarian » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:03 pm

I have an idea which might save everyone's time. Why doesn't the Honourable Member go though every department and justify what it is being spent on. I'd be interested to hear his logic.
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Arkolon
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Founded: May 04, 2013
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Postby Arkolon » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:04 pm

The Sarian wrote:I have an idea which might save everyone's time. Why doesn't the Honourable Member go though every department and justify what it is being spent on. I'd be interested to hear his logic.

"I would be most interested to see that!" chuckled Hervé.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Britanno 2
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Founded: Apr 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Britanno 2 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:05 pm

Lykens wrote:"Banning fracking is something I can recall the Environment Minister saying, in addition to signing the Kyoto Protocol, if I can remember our discussion correctly."

"So am I correct in thinking a government whip has no clue what the legislative programme of the government is?"
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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:06 pm

Arkolon wrote:
Lykens wrote:"The capital spending for the Ministry of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport has increased by two hundred million dollars from the last budget passed by the O'Hara Administration

"No it hasn't, and total investment spending was in fact cut by $200 million. Can the government tell us where these cuts are being made and why the capital spending budget is being cut?"

"I thank the Honorable Member for bringing my error to my attention. The capital spending for Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport was in fact increased by one point two billion dollars, while capital spending for defense was ended, as our esteemed Minister of Defense, David Vera Cruz has worked tirelessly to procure a modern and up to date military to serve Calaverde."
Arkolon wrote:
Lykens wrote:as the previous Marino Administration absolutely butchered whatever they attempted to do.

"That's very rich coming from a member of a government that is prepared to cut the investment budget and only increase the welfare budget by ~3%-- compared to Marino's promise of 30% more capital spending and twice the increase in welfare."

"I have already addressed your point."
Arkolon wrote:
Lykens wrote:"Under Javier Escuella our late former Minsiter of Public Works, Infrastructure, and Transport, the ministry was tasked with overhauling the crumbling infrastructure we were fortunate to inherit from the Junta. Quite obviously these projects are not done, and need to be continued. That being said, similar amounts of work need to be done, and doubling the budget when the same amount as before is needed is pointless."

"Is the Honourable Member not aware of what exactly capital spending is in fact spent on? Capital spending is money that goes into new roads, new rail tracks, new bridges, new buildings, new water works, new pipes, new connections, new opportunities and new horizons. It is through capital spending that we breathe life into our economy by connecting businesses and expanding their growth prospects; it is through capital spending that we expand our economy by giving it a gentle push forwards. Capital spending isn't just about building roads. Capital spending is about the multiplier effect that follows that: it is about stimulus, it is about growth, it is about the general welfare of the country. And when that takes a back seat in any government, Mr Diaz, the people have every right to be concerned."

"So from what I am hearing, the Honorable Member would prefer to let already existing infrastructure to crumble and decay, just to build new things? My grandfather was a very frugal person while I was growing up, and he was always quite fond of saying that if something is broken and damaged, you fix it, you don't go and buy new things to make the old damaged things disappear. I am sure the people would be more concerned by the possibility of a bridge collapsing while driving over it rather than the postponement of new ones."
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Lykens
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Founded: Apr 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Lykens » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:07 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
Lykens wrote:"Banning fracking is something I can recall the Environment Minister saying, in addition to signing the Kyoto Protocol, if I can remember our discussion correctly."

"So am I correct in thinking a government whip has no clue what the legislative programme of the government is?"

"I don't know, you'd have to ask Mister Ortega."
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