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Britanno 2
Diplomat
 
Posts: 611
Founded: Apr 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Britanno 2 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:16 pm

Davincia wrote:"Although I fully intend to support this bill, it wouldn't surprise me very much if these criminal kingpins simply convert their activities and instead become recognized businessmen. The 'wish' to burn and inhale cannabis will still be profited by either the government or the private sector."

"The difference is that by getting the government involved we can oversee the transfer of cannabis meaning we can help to make the whole thing safer for everyone involved. As well as this, legalising cannabis helps to prevent it being a gateway drug for many people as the need to go to illegal drug dealers for cannabis often leads to people getting into harder drugs such as cocaine. This bill will keep our streets, our kids and our fellow citizens safer. I urge all sides to vote aye."
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The Sarian
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Founded: Jun 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sarian » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:57 pm

Britanno 2 wrote:
The Sarian wrote:Why is the Prime Minister anti-sugar but pro-cannabis?

"Why is the President anti-cannabis but pro-tobacco?"

"Can the Honourable Member point me to an instance that I've been pro-tobacco?"
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Britanno 2
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Founded: Apr 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Britanno 2 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:05 pm

The Sarian wrote:"Can the Honourable Member point me to an instance that I've been pro-tobacco?"

"Sorry, I just haven't ever heard you say you wanted to ban tobacco, or alcohol for that matter."
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Geilinor
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Founded: Feb 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:53 pm

The Sarian wrote:
Britanno 2 wrote:"While there are undoubtedly many flaws with this bill, it is better than having no regulation at all. I also challenge the Leader of the Opposition to set out how we could possible limit the use of cannabis even when it is illegal? Criminalising cannabis doesn't work, at least this way we can regulate and make it safer for all those involved."

"Sweden increased the war on drugs and has seen a great drop in the number of drug abuse cases."

"The United States started the war on drugs and wastes money every day."
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Ainin
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:07 pm

"Next up is the Public Broadcaster Act, proposed by the Honourable Jean-François Rochefort of the LDP, Minister of Rural Affairs."
Last edited by Ainin on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Atlanticatia
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Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Atlanticatia » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:20 pm

"I'm not sure if I can support a public broadcaster funded by ad revenues."
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Costa Fierro
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Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:36 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:"I'm not sure if I can support a public broadcaster funded by ad revenues."


"What is the issue? There are plenty of state broadcasters around the world that allow advertisements on flagship channels. All this talk about "editorial independence" is just scaremongering, especially when companies pay millions to have product placement in television programs and movies. There is no argument for it." Campos paused for a moment to take a small sip of water. "You either fund it through advertising or you fund it through television licencing. I would prefer we have free-to-air television channels as a basic package funded by advertising and allow private companies to sell cable and satellite television packages for people who want extra channels. In short, I see nothing wrong with this bill."
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Davincia
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Founded: Apr 13, 2014
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Channel

Postby Davincia » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:39 am

"Well, this bill does not bring any urgent matters to this chamber, but it seems beneficial on the whole. I am presuming that these broadcasters would be the equivalent to the American C-SPAN?"
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Ikania
Senator
 
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Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ikania » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:56 am

Davincia wrote:"Well, this bill does not bring any urgent matters to this chamber, but it seems beneficial on the whole. I am presuming that these broadcasters would be the equivalent to the American C-SPAN?"

"What the hell is C-SPAN?" asked Kruger as he secretly browsed the BBC website on his phone.
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Land Value Tax would fix this
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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Posts: 1850
Founded: Jan 02, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:11 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:"I'm not sure if I can support a public broadcaster funded by ad revenues."


"What is the issue? There are plenty of state broadcasters around the world that allow advertisements on flagship channels. All this talk about "editorial independence" is just scaremongering, especially when companies pay millions to have product placement in television programs and movies. There is no argument for it." Campos paused for a moment to take a small sip of water. "You either fund it through advertising or you fund it through television licencing. I would prefer we have free-to-air television channels as a basic package funded by advertising and allow private companies to sell cable and satellite television packages for people who want extra channels. In short, I see nothing wrong with this bill."

"Or you could fund it though general taxation. Having it be funded through general taxation works best in my opinion."
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Mollary
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Founded: Nov 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mollary » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:12 am

Senator Croslan stood up to make his first speech in the chamber since he caught the flu "I wholeheartedly support the funding of a public broadcaster through Ad revenue, as we have seen in other countries it can be expensive to fund through public money in a way that is equitable."
Last edited by Mollary on Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MERIZoC
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Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:15 am

"Perhaps a compromise could be reached, and we make the ad revenue solely from not-for-profit NGO's."

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Mollary
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Founded: Nov 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mollary » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:19 am

Merizoc wrote:"Perhaps a compromise could be reached, and we make the ad revenue solely from not-for-profit NGO's."

"Considering that this would both limit the revenue intake, and also make the public broadcaster potentially seem biased between different charities and causes, I believe that, while well meant, this solution would be unworkable.
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Ikania
Senator
 
Posts: 3686
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ikania » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:21 am

United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
"What is the issue? There are plenty of state broadcasters around the world that allow advertisements on flagship channels. All this talk about "editorial independence" is just scaremongering, especially when companies pay millions to have product placement in television programs and movies. There is no argument for it." Campos paused for a moment to take a small sip of water. "You either fund it through advertising or you fund it through television licencing. I would prefer we have free-to-air television channels as a basic package funded by advertising and allow private companies to sell cable and satellite television packages for people who want extra channels. In short, I see nothing wrong with this bill."

"Or you could fund it though general taxation. Having it be funded through general taxation works best in my opinion."

"So force the people to pay even more money to the government instead of being persuaded to go and actually buy something that might make their life better, fund companies and boost the economy?"
Ike Speardane
Executive Advisor in The League.
Proud soldier in the service of The Grey Wardens.
Two-time Defendervision winner. NSG Senate veteran.
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Land Value Tax would fix this
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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Posts: 1850
Founded: Jan 02, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:26 am

Ikania wrote:
United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:"Or you could fund it though general taxation. Having it be funded through general taxation works best in my opinion."

"So force the people to pay even more money to the government instead of being persuaded to go and actually buy something that might make their life better, fund companies and boost the economy?"

"Firstly, having people pay money to government, especially is people in question are very wealthy, has been proven time and time again to reduce income inequality, and more equal societies have been proven time and time again to have longer growth spurts. Anyways, how does advertising make their life better? If they want a product, they can just buy it if they want it to make their life better; advertising uses deceptive subliminal messaging to make people think a product ill make their life better, when it won't. Also, Calaverde has yet to fully industrialize, and certainly hasn't transitioned to a service economy; I doubt using advertising would boost the economy or help the lives of Calaverdeans in a significant fashion. Funding the program through general taxation is the best approach."
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MERIZoC
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Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:31 am

Mollary wrote:
Merizoc wrote:"Perhaps a compromise could be reached, and we make the ad revenue solely from not-for-profit NGO's."

"Considering that this would both limit the revenue intake, and also make the public broadcaster potentially seem biased between different charities and causes, I believe that, while well meant, this solution would be unworkable.

"Considering the vast number of international and domestic NGO's out there, I don't think revenue would be a problem. And if we are concerned with bias, why isn't that a consideration with corporate advertisements?"

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Mollary
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Founded: Nov 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mollary » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:41 am

Merizoc wrote:
Mollary wrote:"Considering that this would both limit the revenue intake, and also make the public broadcaster potentially seem biased between different charities and causes, I believe that, while well meant, this solution would be unworkable.

"Considering the vast number of international and domestic NGO's out there, I don't think revenue would be a problem. And if we are concerned with bias, why isn't that a consideration with corporate advertisements?"

"Because corporations have no morals per se; they're profit-maximizers. As a consequence, providing a slot to one over another makes no difference in terms of showing the public broadcaster as having any certain political bias, whereas there would be a bigger risk of that if we were solely providing slots to NGOs."
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United Provinces of Atlantica
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Posts: 1850
Founded: Jan 02, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Provinces of Atlantica » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:48 am

Mollary wrote:
Merizoc wrote:"Considering the vast number of international and domestic NGO's out there, I don't think revenue would be a problem. And if we are concerned with bias, why isn't that a consideration with corporate advertisements?"

"Because corporations have no morals per se; they're profit-maximizers. As a consequence, providing a slot to one over another makes no difference in terms of showing the public broadcaster as having any certain political bias, whereas there would be a bigger risk of that if we were solely providing slots to NGOs."

"Proft-maximixing, however, can led to certain viewpoints; if, for example, there is a controversy over what could be potentially illegal practices of one corporation that also happens to be an advertiser to the public broadcaster, then the public broadcaster would be very likely to report positively on that corporation, or not report on that controversy at all. Profit-maximizing for corporations also leads to many political viewpoints in the interest of profit-maximising, mostly economically right-wing ones, and as such advertisers could pressure the public broadcaster to share those opinions, while the personal political views of that advertiser's owners could also play a large part in that advertiser pressuring the public broadcaster to reflect those opinions. While I am opposed to having all advertising on the public broadcaster as a matter of principle, NGOs, at least, tend to have views all across the political spectrum.
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Arkolon
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Founded: May 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arkolon » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:52 am

"So you admit that NGOs are biased, and you admit that corporations only seek to maximise profit?", asked Hervé, raising an eyebrow. "What's your point, then?"
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
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Davincia
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Posts: 326
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Develop

Postby Davincia » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:55 am

United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:
Ikania wrote:"So force the people to pay even more money to the government instead of being persuaded to go and actually buy something that might make their life better, fund companies and boost the economy?"

"Firstly, having people pay money to government, especially is people in question are very wealthy, has been proven time and time again to reduce income inequality, and more equal societies have been proven time and time again to have longer growth spurts. Anyways, how does advertising make their life better? If they want a product, they can just buy it if they want it to make their life better; advertising uses deceptive subliminal messaging to make people think a product ill make their life better, when it won't. Also, Calaverde has yet to fully industrialize, and certainly hasn't transitioned to a service economy; I doubt using advertising would boost the economy or help the lives of Calaverdeans in a significant fashion. Funding the program through general taxation is the best approach."

"Occasionally advertising informs people of the existence of a product they may need. Allowing businesses to advertise spurs competition, investment, and (most importantly) economic growth."
For: Capitalism, Conservatism, Religion (any), Israel, Capital Punishment, Democracy
Neutral: LBGT Rights, Abortion, Secularism, Libertarianism, Monarchism
Against: Institutionalized Atheism, Communism, Palestine, Fascism, Recreational Drugs

RIP Haruo Nakajima (1929-2017), Yoshio Tsuchiya (1927-2017)

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MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:57 am

Mollary wrote:
Merizoc wrote:"Considering the vast number of international and domestic NGO's out there, I don't think revenue would be a problem. And if we are concerned with bias, why isn't that a consideration with corporate advertisements?"

"Because corporations have no morals per se; they're profit-maximizers. As a consequence, providing a slot to one over another makes no difference in terms of showing the public broadcaster as having any certain political bias, whereas there would be a bigger risk of that if we were solely providing slots to NGOs."

"Corporations have political ideologies they push for. Hell, if I can cite an American example, look at the store Hobby Lobby there. Made a huge fuss over abortion. Not to mention the fact that I'd hardly consider goals of ending AIDS or providing for the needy to be political, and it's shameful to paint them as such. But that's sort of beside the point. Since we are trying to implement a public broadcaster, we are trusting it to be relatively free of bias. Do you not think that they can do the same in advertising?"
Last edited by MERIZoC on Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MERIZoC
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Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:57 am

Davincia wrote:
United Provinces of Atlantica wrote:"Firstly, having people pay money to government, especially is people in question are very wealthy, has been proven time and time again to reduce income inequality, and more equal societies have been proven time and time again to have longer growth spurts. Anyways, how does advertising make their life better? If they want a product, they can just buy it if they want it to make their life better; advertising uses deceptive subliminal messaging to make people think a product ill make their life better, when it won't. Also, Calaverde has yet to fully industrialize, and certainly hasn't transitioned to a service economy; I doubt using advertising would boost the economy or help the lives of Calaverdeans in a significant fashion. Funding the program through general taxation is the best approach."

"Occasionally advertising informs people of the existence of a product they may need. Allowing businesses to advertise spurs competition, investment, and (most importantly) economic growth."

Ah Puch Tecu rolls his eyes.

"Because of course, this is the only advertising outlet in the country."

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Davincia
Envoy
 
Posts: 326
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Despite

Postby Davincia » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:07 am

Merizoc wrote:
Davincia wrote:"Occasionally advertising informs people of the existence of a product they may need. Allowing businesses to advertise spurs competition, investment, and (most importantly) economic growth."

Ah Puch Tecu rolls his eyes.

"Because of course, this is the only advertising outlet in the country."

"It's better to encourage economic activity, even if mild, than to limit it on the premise that they may have some kind of political bias."
For: Capitalism, Conservatism, Religion (any), Israel, Capital Punishment, Democracy
Neutral: LBGT Rights, Abortion, Secularism, Libertarianism, Monarchism
Against: Institutionalized Atheism, Communism, Palestine, Fascism, Recreational Drugs

RIP Haruo Nakajima (1929-2017), Yoshio Tsuchiya (1927-2017)

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Britanno 2
Diplomat
 
Posts: 611
Founded: Apr 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Britanno 2 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:14 am

Atlanticatia wrote:"I'm not sure if I can support a public broadcaster funded by ad revenues."

"Then why did you sponsor it?"
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The New World Oceania
Minister
 
Posts: 2525
Founded: May 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The New World Oceania » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:17 am

"This legislation is nonsense," says Njil, turning her head and winking at the Calaverde-SPAN cameras and flashing her I <3 Private Parliamentary Broadcasters satchel.
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