NSG Senate Chamber: I came, I saw, I cleaned up after myself

[The New World Oceania]

"You're unfit for the senate," thought Pierre.

"Who said that," telepathically thought Njil.

[Zurkerx]

OOC: have work now so...

ORDER.

"We will now begin the debate on the Amendment to the Government Establishment Act".

Amendment to the government establishment act

[Davincia]

OOC: have work now so...

ORDER.

"We will now begin the debate on the Amendment to the Government Establishment Act".

Amendment to the government establishment act

"I'm afraid this bill is concerning to me. I would greatly prefer it if the voters could select the Prime Minister, rather than the president. Giving the president the ability to 'dissolve the legislature' is doubly terrifying, and altogether this bill only strengthens a monopoly for the strongest political parties."

[Great Nepal]

OOC: have work now so...

ORDER.

"We will now begin the debate on the Amendment to the Government Establishment Act".

Amendment to the government establishment act

"I'm afraid this bill is concerning to me. I would greatly prefer it if the voters could select the Prime Minister, rather than the president.

That's not how parliamentary system works... Voters elect the parliament and whoever commands majority in parliament is appointed by president to be PM.

Giving the president the ability to 'dissolve the legislature' is doubly terrifying, and altogether this bill only strengthens a monopoly for the strongest political parties."

...dissolve the legislature and hold second elections. Kinda necessary to stop political gridlock that so often accompanies US system - if no one has confidence of the parliament, voters should be allowed to elect a new parliament. In their capacity as head of state, president must dissolve the parliament to enable this.

[Davincia]

"I'm afraid this bill is concerning to me. I would greatly prefer it if the voters could select the Prime Minister, rather than the president.

That's not how parliamentary system works... Voters elect the parliament and whoever commands majority in parliament is appointed by president to be PM.

Giving the president the ability to 'dissolve the legislature' is doubly terrifying, and altogether this bill only strengthens a monopoly for the strongest political parties."

...dissolve the legislature and hold second elections. Kinda necessary to stop political gridlock that so often accompanies US system - if no one has confidence of the parliament, voters should be allowed to elect a new parliament. In their capacity as head of state, president must dissolve the parliament to enable this.

"If such would be permitted, then pardon me if I ask how often such dissolving could occur? Also, there is no guarantee that holding new elections would end gridlock. If a senator is performing their job poorly, then they can be elected out on an official election day."

[Heraklea-]

That's not how parliamentary system works... Voters elect the parliament and whoever commands majority in parliament is appointed by president to be PM.


...dissolve the legislature and hold second elections. Kinda necessary to stop political gridlock that so often accompanies US system - if no one has confidence of the parliament, voters should be allowed to elect a new parliament. In their capacity as head of state, president must dissolve the parliament to enable this.

"If such would be permitted, then pardon me if I ask how often such dissolving could occur? Also, there is no guarantee that holding new elections would end gridlock. If a senator is performing their job poorly, then they can be elected out on an official election day."

"I should point out that what this is primarily changing is not how the PM is selected or when a new Parliament is elected but rather whether or not it is needed to have a PM confirmation vote after each general election. What this amendment does is allow the Parliament to get back to business following an election if the composition of Parliament after the election leaves no question as to confidence of the Parliament in the PM."

[The New World Oceania]

OOC: have work now so...

ORDER.

"We will now begin the debate on the Amendment to the Government Establishment Act".

Amendment to the government establishment act

The vote of confidence is necessary. Better to go in knowing most support the individual rather than find four weeks in that nobody liked them from the start. It's not a problematic procedure, just a necessity.

[Great Nepal]

"If such would be permitted, then pardon me if I ask how often such dissolving could occur? Also, there is no guarantee that holding new elections would end gridlock. If a senator is performing their job poorly, then they can be elected out on an official election day."

IC: "I would doubt that would occur with any significant frequency under present situation as the current coalition is enjoying significant support by the members of parliament. This is a feature of most parliamentary nations - there is no guarantee that re-election will end the deadlock however I would expect voters to vote for parties such as to prevent such deadlock again.
Its not a case of individual MP performing poorly, its case of entire parliament as an entity not being able to do its job due to its composition. We shouldn't wait and do nothing till next parliamentary election - we should go back to voters to get new composition of parliament which can act."

OOC: Really, this wont change anything because we dont RP elections, although if we do start RPing parliamentary election campaigns - then it might happen occasionally although it wont change anything because same people will be in parliament.

OOC: have work now so...

ORDER.

"We will now begin the debate on the Amendment to the Government Establishment Act".

Amendment to the government establishment act

The vote of confidence is necessary. Better to go in knowing most support the individual rather than find four weeks in that nobody liked them from the start. It's not a problematic procedure, just a necessity.

Its not a necessity at all, we can safely presume someone leading largest party/ coalition commands majority of the parliament as they have democratic mandate to be in government. If opposition believes this person doesn't have confidence of the parliament they are free to allege it and this parliament will hold a vote of confidence.

[The Nihilistic view]

"Considering the Prime Minister has not been able to say he has a majority on both occasions before any vote so far and thus a vote was needed to establish it. The current method is best and most accountable and all that your amendment would to would cause an argument followed by an inevitable vote. It just wastes time and creates unnecessary aggravation."

[Great Nepal]

"Considering the Prime Minister has not been able to say he has a majority on both occasions before any vote so far and thus a vote was needed to establish it. The current method is best and most accountable and all that your amendment would to would cause an argument followed by an inevitable vote. It just wastes time and creates unnecessary aggravation."

"In first occasion,3 members of parliament stated they did not have confidence in prime minister against forty three. Spending 24 hours there was most certainly unnecessary and if only three MPs did not have confidence in prime minister, we would not have had a vote in first place.
If opposition believes PM doesn't have required confidence, they can put forward motion rather easily - this bill takes nothing away from accountability but merely avoids wasting this house's time when it is plainly unnecessary such as when we only have 3 members in opposition of prime minister."

[The Nihilistic view]

"Considering the Prime Minister has not been able to say he has a majority on both occasions before any vote so far and thus a vote was needed to establish it. The current method is best and most accountable and all that your amendment would to would cause an argument followed by an inevitable vote. It just wastes time and creates unnecessary aggravation."

"In first occasion,3 members of parliament stated they did not have confidence in prime minister against forty three. Spending 24 hours there was most certainly unnecessary and if only three MPs did not have confidence in prime minister, we would not have had a vote in first place."

"And before the vote the Prime Minister said he did not have the support he needed, he was on paper a few seats short of a majority of parties and independents that supported him. You can't get around the maths, in such a situation you need a vote to ensure a majority."

[Great Nepal]

"In first occasion,3 members of parliament stated they did not have confidence in prime minister against forty three. Spending 24 hours there was most certainly unnecessary and if only three MPs did not have confidence in prime minister, we would not have had a vote in first place."

"And before the vote the Prime Minister said he did not have the support he needed, he was on paper a few seats short of a majority of parties and independents that supported him. You can't get around the maths, in such a situation you need a vote to ensure a majority."

Perhaps on paper, but clearly three MPs who turned out and voted against him shows in reality the paper was entirely inaccurate and not worth trees needed to create it.
When you put the onus on the opposition, you ensure that vote is not held in circumstances such as that - if five MPs are not willing to say prime minister does not have support of the parliament, I think its safe to assume no significant opposition exists.

[New Werpland]

Clemond Abaroa bangs his hand upon the opposing pew and stands up. "This is it! Enough is Enough! This senate, like all forms of coercion and monopoly, is corrupt and immoral! It refuses to recognize the miniscule Senator Drago Dragomere's position however small it is, in the creation of said legislation! I have given up on the state, only the individual can help another individual! Screw you statists!" with that Clemond marches out of the chamber singing the internationale.

[Planita]

*Rolls eyes*

At any rate, I approve the bill. If my memory serves me correctly, this is common for many countries and I feel it would serve us good.

[Zurkerx]

ORDER.

"We will now begin the vote on the bills and standing orders. It will last 24 hours. Now, when voting on the standing orders, please specify which ones you are voting on (Aye to the first but nay to second) or say Aye to all, or whatever, just specify."

One last note, if you vote Aye/Nay to the standing orders, then I will assume your vote on all of them is the same. So make sure you specify otherwise, you might regret it.

Standing Orders
First Amendment to Right to Choose Act (Amended)
The Unemployment Assistance Act
First Amendment to the National Judiciary Act
Fourth Amendment to the Government Establishment Act
Amendment to the government establishment act

[MERIZoC]

OOC: Could you put up links to the bills, as usual?

[Zurkerx]

OOC: Could you put up links to the bills, as usual?

They are up now. Sorry, thought I posted them.

[MERIZoC]

OOC: Could you put up links to the bills, as usual?

They are up now. Sorry, thought I posted them.

Thanks.

[Heraklea-]

Are the Standing Orders being voted on in a block or individually?

First Amendment to Right to Choose Act (Amended): Aye
The Unemployment Assistance Act Nay
First Amendment to the National Judiciary Act: Aye
Fourth Amendment to the Government Establishment Act: Aye
Amendment to the government establishment act: Aye

[Zurkerx]

Are the Standing Orders being voted on in a block or individually?

Individually.

[The Sarian]

Standing Orders - AYE to all
First Amendment to Right to Choose Act (Amended) - NAY
The Unemployment Assistance Act - NAY
First Amendment to the National Judiciary Act - AYE
Fourth Amendment to the Government Establishment Act - NAY
Amendment to the government establishment act - AYE

[Havenburgh]

Posting my votes. Wish I could be more active with the senate, but I'm barely active enough in my region. Anywho,

First Amendment to Right to Choose Act (Amended): Aye
The Unemployment Assistance Act: aye
First Amendment to the National Judiciary Act: Aye
Fourth Amendment to the Government Establishment Act: Aye
Amendment to the government establishment act: Aye

[Odinburgh]

Standing Orders - AYE
First Amendment to Right to Choose Act (Amended) - NAY
The Unemployment Assistance Act - NAY
First Amendment to the National Judiciary Act - AYE
Fourth Amendment to the Government Establishment Act - NAY
Amendment to the government establishment act - AYE

[Lykens]

Standing Orders: Abstain to all
First Amendment to Right to Choose Act (Amended): Aye
The Unemployment Assistance Act: Nay
First Amendment to the National Judiciary Act: Aye
Fourth Amendment to the Government Establishment Act: Aye
Amendment to the government establishment act: Aye

[Heraklea-]

Standing Order 1: Nay
Standing Order 2: Nay
Standing Order 3: Aye
Standing Order 4: Aye
Standing Order 5: Aye