NSG Senate Chamber: I came, I saw, I cleaned up after myself

[Sebastianbourg]

"b. Revocation of citizenship by the State if the citizen becomes a threat to Calaverde's national security;"

Opposed to this part. It would allow for a situation to occur, where, say, a person who previously had citizenship had it revoked, and was not given adequate due process regarding whatever threat they pose. If that makes any sense.

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

1. I'll change it to anyone convicted of treason.
2. I wouldn't want to do that; some countries have conscription and it would be awful for someone to lose their citizenship because their request for a permit got lost by the new guy at the embassy.

[Heraklea-]

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

1. I'll change it to anyone convicted of treason.
2. I wouldn't want to do that; some countries have conscription and it would be awful for someone to lose their citizenship because their request for a permit got lost by the new guy at the embassy.

The level of indoctrination a person goes through upon initial enlistment would make their loyalty to Calaverde over the other state suspect.

[Sebastianbourg]

1. I'll change it to anyone convicted of treason.
2. I wouldn't want to do that; some countries have conscription and it would be awful for someone to lose their citizenship because their request for a permit got lost by the new guy at the embassy.

The level of indoctrination a person goes through upon initial enlistment would make their loyalty to Calaverde over the other state suspect.

No. Imagine a male dual Swiss-Calaverdean citizen or a Finnish-Calaverdean citizen; they have no choice but to join the Swiss and Finnish armed forces respectively. They don't enlist; they're enlisted.

[Sebastianbourg]

I'll be back in about half an hour.

[Heraklea-]

The level of indoctrination a person goes through upon initial enlistment would make their loyalty to Calaverde over the other state suspect.

No. Imagine a male dual Swiss-Calaverdean citizen or a Finnish-Calaverdean citizen; they have no choice but to join the Swiss and Finnish armed forces respectively. They don't enlist; they're enlisted.

Whether they enlist or are enlisted, they are still indoctrinated. That is why service in a foreign military should remove one's citizenship unless duly wavered by our government. We can make such a waiver retroactively applicable (i.e. a Calaverdean citizen serves in a foreign military initially without waiver and is thus stripped of citizenship but a waiver is later approved thus reinstating their citizenship) as a compromise.

[Geilinor]

"b. Revocation of citizenship by the State if the citizen becomes a threat to Calaverde's national security;"

Opposed to this part. It would allow for a situation to occur, where, say, a person who previously had citizenship had it revoked, and was not given adequate due process regarding whatever threat they pose. If that makes any sense.

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

We can't do that, by international law no person can be stateless.

[Ainin]

"b. Revocation of citizenship by the State if the citizen becomes a threat to Calaverde's national security;"

Opposed to this part. It would allow for a situation to occur, where, say, a person who previously had citizenship had it revoked, and was not given adequate due process regarding whatever threat they pose. If that makes any sense.

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

And then we get invaded by the United States for violating international humanitarian law.

[Geilinor]

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

And then we get invaded by the United States for violating international humanitarian law.

Since when has the United States invaded for violating one treaty? Almost every nation has violated one or another treaty in the past.

[Heraklea-]

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

We can't do that, by international law no person can be stateless.

Um... What? That isn't true. There are thousands of stateless people even now. Where did you get that?

[Ainin]

Since when has the United States invaded for violating one treaty?

Operation Iraqi Freedom, Section V of the Charter of the United Nations
Operation Allied Force, Geneva Conventions
Operation Just Cause, Torrijos–Carter Treaties
Korean War, Section V of the Charter of the United Nations

[Beta Test]

We can't do that, by international law no person can be stateless.

Um... What? That isn't true. There are thousands of stateless people even now. Where did you get that?

The right to a nationality is in the Deceleration of Human Rights, no?

[Geilinor]

We can't do that, by international law no person can be stateless.

Um... What? That isn't true. There are thousands of stateless people even now. Where did you get that?

From the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness - "If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality".

[Heraklea-]

Um... What? That isn't true. There are thousands of stateless people even now. Where did you get that?

The right to a nationality is in the Deceleration of Human Rights, no?

Nationality is different from citizenship. Although there are a few other key points, the main difference between a citizen and a non-citizen national is the franchise. There are other responsibilities and privileges that may be associated with citizenship.

[Sebastianbourg]

Agreed. Better to say something to the effect of "upon a conviction of treason."

Also, any person who serves in a foreign military or government without waiver by the Calaverdean government should likewise lose citizenship.

We can't do that, by international law no person can be stateless.

Yes, we can do that. I had a stateless friend while at university and they came from a country that hadn't signed the 1954 and/or 1961 UN Conventions on the Reduction of Statelessness. If you want an example in Europe look at Latvia and Estonia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_n ... itizenship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizens_%28Latvia%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention ... ss_Persons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention ... f_Refugees

[Divitaen]

No. Imagine a male dual Swiss-Calaverdean citizen or a Finnish-Calaverdean citizen; they have no choice but to join the Swiss and Finnish armed forces respectively. They don't enlist; they're enlisted.

Whether they enlist or are enlisted, they are still indoctrinated. That is why service in a foreign military should remove one's citizenship unless duly wavered by our government. We can make such a waiver retroactively applicable (i.e. a Calaverdean citizen serves in a foreign military initially without waiver and is thus stripped of citizenship but a waiver is later approved thus reinstating their citizenship) as a compromise.

I don't see the point of stripping their citizenship for that period of time only to reinstate it. The world is much more globalised now and people's loyalties are no longer a zero-sum game. You can be enlisted in another country's military by your nationality and still be loyal to Calaverde, as the example was given, so why revoke the privileges of being a Calverdean citizen for that period of time for an individual who has to enlist to keep citizenship in another country?

[Divitaen]

Since when has the United States invaded for violating one treaty?

Operation Iraqi Freedom, Section V of the Charter of the United Nations
Operation Allied Force, Geneva Conventions
Operation Just Cause, Torrijos–Carter Treaties
Korean War, Section V of the Charter of the United Nations

To be fair, the US had other realpolitik reasons for those invasions. I think the point was that the US never invades only because of one international law violation.

[Sebastianbourg]

Any other problems with the nationality act? Any sponsors?

[Divitaen]

Any other problems with the nationality act? Any sponsors?

I'm considering sponsoring, I just have a few questions. For the years of residency in Calaverde, is it possible to reduce the number of years to 5? It's a minor thing, but I just feel 6 years is a bit too long for someone to become naturalised and accustomed to community and culture in Calaverde, and the UK for example has it as 5 years. Also, is there a way to streamline the process of naturalised citizenship if the intention is to reunite with family members, or if you get married with a Calaverdean citizen? Finally, I was wondering if we could lower the years needed for stateless citizens, because they get no privileges and standard passports that a citizen has, even for any country, so I think it's only fair we streamline the process of citizenship for them.

Also, just a question, has there been a previous law passed before on asylum-seeking? Because if not then the "refugee" part of the law may become irrelevant, since technically we don't have a refugee system in present yet.

[Sebastianbourg]

Any other problems with the nationality act? Any sponsors?

I'm considering sponsoring, I just have a few questions. For the years of residency in Calaverde, is it possible to reduce the number of years to 5? It's a minor thing, but I just feel 6 years is a bit too long for someone to become naturalised and accustomed to community and culture in Calaverde, and the UK for example has it as 5 years. Also, is there a way to streamline the process of naturalised citizenship if the intention is to reunite with family members, or if you get married with a Calaverdean citizen? Finally, I was wondering if we could lower the years needed for stateless citizens, because they get no privileges and standard passports that a citizen has, even for any country, so I think it's only fair we streamline the process of citizenship for them.

I'm a naturalised British citizen (I was born to EU citizens in the UK but jus soli had been abolished by then and my parents had no interest in registering me as a British citizen once they acquired settled status) and I know for sure it's not five years. For non-EU citizens it's five year's legal residence but also one year with the Indefinite Leave to Remain which is granted after living in the UK for five years so it's technically six. For EU citizens this is equivalent to permanent residency which is attained after five years in the UK too. We could do what Germany does though; if you take tests that prove your knowledge of German and German culture you can get years taken off from the residency requirement.

I'll add provisions for those married to Calaverdeans I don't see a reason to alter/add the other things you mentioned. Those who come to Calaverde due to family reunification would receive residency and could opt for citizenship after six years. And the stateless residents would get 1954 Convention travel documents and would be entitled to seek help from Calaverdean diplomatic missions if they got into trouble abroad; besides, we've already streamlined the process for them by taking two years off the residency requirement.

Also, just a question, has there been a previous law passed before on asylum-seeking? Because if not then the "refugee" part of the law may become irrelevant, since technically we don't have a refugee system in present yet.

Not that I know of but we could have one written.

[Divitaen]

I'm considering sponsoring, I just have a few questions. For the years of residency in Calaverde, is it possible to reduce the number of years to 5? It's a minor thing, but I just feel 6 years is a bit too long for someone to become naturalised and accustomed to community and culture in Calaverde, and the UK for example has it as 5 years. Also, is there a way to streamline the process of naturalised citizenship if the intention is to reunite with family members, or if you get married with a Calaverdean citizen? Finally, I was wondering if we could lower the years needed for stateless citizens, because they get no privileges and standard passports that a citizen has, even for any country, so I think it's only fair we streamline the process of citizenship for them.

I'm a naturalised British citizen (I was born to EU citizens in the UK but jus soli had been abolished by then and my parents had no interest in registering me as a British citizen once they acquired settled status) and I know for sure it's not five years. For non-EU citizens it's five year's legal residence but also one year with the Indefinite Leave to Remain which is granted after living in the UK for five years so it's technically six. For EU citizens this is equivalent to permanent residency which is attained after five years in the UK too. We could do what Germany does though; if you take tests that prove your knowledge of German and German culture you can get years taken off from the residency requirement.

I'll add provisions for those married to Calaverdeans I don't see a reason to alter/add the other things you mentioned. Those who come to Calaverde due to family reunification would receive residency and could opt for citizenship after six years. And the stateless residents would get 1954 Convention travel documents and would be entitled to seek help from Calaverdean diplomatic missions if they got into trouble abroad; besides, we've already streamlined the process for them by taking two years off the residency requirement.

Also, just a question, has there been a previous law passed before on asylum-seeking? Because if not then the "refugee" part of the law may become irrelevant, since technically we don't have a refugee system in present yet.

Not that I know of but we could have one written.

Alright then. You can put me down as a sponsor for the moment, I don't see any other issues, as long as you add the marriage provision. My only concern now is about the refugee part, and whether that provision makes sense without an existing asylum seeking process.

[Sebastianbourg]

I'm a naturalised British citizen (I was born to EU citizens in the UK but jus soli had been abolished by then and my parents had no interest in registering me as a British citizen once they acquired settled status) and I know for sure it's not five years. For non-EU citizens it's five year's legal residence but also one year with the Indefinite Leave to Remain which is granted after living in the UK for five years so it's technically six. For EU citizens this is equivalent to permanent residency which is attained after five years in the UK too. We could do what Germany does though; if you take tests that prove your knowledge of German and German culture you can get years taken off from the residency requirement.

I'll add provisions for those married to Calaverdeans I don't see a reason to alter/add the other things you mentioned. Those who come to Calaverde due to family reunification would receive residency and could opt for citizenship after six years. And the stateless residents would get 1954 Convention travel documents and would be entitled to seek help from Calaverdean diplomatic missions if they got into trouble abroad; besides, we've already streamlined the process for them by taking two years off the residency requirement.


Not that I know of but we could have one written.

Alright then. You can put me down as a sponsor for the moment, I don't see any other issues, as long as you add the marriage provision. My only concern now is about the refugee part, and whether that provision makes sense without an existing asylum seeking process.

I leave it there until further notice.

[Sebastianbourg]

Calaverdean Nationality & Citizenship Act
| Author: Sebastianbourg |
| Sponsors: Divitaen |

An act to regulate the granting of Calaverdean nationality and citizenship; to define Calaverdean nationality and citizenship; to make provisions regarding the rights and responsibilities of Calaverdean citizens and nationals

---

Chapter I - Definitions

A national is a holder of Calaverdean nationality.
A citizen is a citizen of Calaverde. The terms national and citizen are interchangeable.
A natural-born citizen is a person born a citizen regardless of their place-of-birth.
A citizen by descent is a natural-born citizen born abroad.
A naturalised citizen is a person who became a citizen.
A citizen otherwise than by otherwise than by descent is any citizen who is not a citizen by descent.
A citizen by grant/naturalised citizen by legislative grant is a person who has been granted citizenship by the legislature. They shall be considered naturalised citizens too.

---

Chapter II - Natural-born Citizens

a. All persons born in the territory of Calaverde to at least one citizen or permanent-resident shall be considered natural-born citizens;
b. All persons born to at least one citizen or permanent-resident of Calaverde abroad shall be considered natural-born citizens. These persons shall also be considered citizens by descent;
c. A person born in Calaverde's territory to stateless parents or parents unable to transmit their citizenship to their child shall be considered a natural-born citizen;
d. A person found alone in Calaverde's territory shall be considered natural-born citizens unless that is proven false.

All persons under the age of sixteen adopted by Calaverdean citizens shall automatically become Calaverdean citizens; those adopted after the age of sixteen shall be able to opt for Calaverdean citizenship after two years of residence.

---

Chapter III - Naturalised Citizens

In order to become a naturalised citizen one most fulfil the following criteria in addition to successfully completing an examination assessing their knowledge of Calaverdean culture, history along with their ability to communicate in one of Calaverde's languages. The State reserves the right to deny anyone citizenship by naturalisation even if they successfully fulfil the established-criteria.

a. Be at least eighteen-years-of-age;
b. Have resided in Calaverde's territory for at least six years (five years if a refugee and four years if stateless or married to a Calaverdean citizen);
c. Have not been convicted of any criminal offence involving a prison sentence over two years.
All minor children of naturalised citizens shall receive citizenship upon their parent's naturalisation unless they are over the age of twelve and decide not to do so.

---

Chapter IV - Naturalised Citizens by Legislative Grant

In order to be considered for citizenship by legislative grant one must fulfil the following criteria. The state reserves the right to deny anyone citizenship by naturalisation even if they are considered to have fulfilled the criteria.

a. Be at least eighteen-years-of-age;
b. Hold a Calaverdean permanent or temporary residency permit;
c. Have an urgent need to receive citizenship.

Anyone who fulfils the above criteria can apply to the legislature directly. If three-fourths of the national legislators vote in favour of the application the person shall be made a Calaverdean citizen with immediate effect. Additionally, a foreigner appointed to a professorship at a state-operated university shall be granted citizenship immediately.

---

Chapter V - Loss of Citizenship

Calaverdean citizenship can only be lost in the following ways.

a. Voluntary renunciation of citizenship in front of a Calaverdean diplomatic officials abroad;
b. Revocation of citizenship by the State if convicted of treason or high treason;
c. Revocation of citizenship by the State if irregularities are detected in the naturalisation process of a naturalised citizen.

---

Chapter VI - Multiple Citizenship

Calaverdean citizens are free to hold citizenship in other countries but they will considered to be only Calaverdean by Calaverdean authorities in Calaverde's territory. Furthermore, Calaverde cannot assure naturalised citizens and natural-born citizens seeking naturalisation abroad that they will be able to retain their original citizenships as some countries have restriction on dual and multiple citizenship.

Slight amendments have been made.

[Arkolon]

I am in favour of adding as many regulations to the position of PM or President as possible. In fact, I believe only women above the age of 40 whose name starts with an "R" get to be President or PM. This ensures the security of our people from foreign unpatriotic pretenders.

[Arkolon]

I like the citizenship bill, but you seem to use "Calaverdean Republic" everywhere even if this part isn't official yet. Try going for something more "neutral", maybe? Also do Central American nations have a Spanish-language test, and perhaps also a history/general knowledge of Calaverde test to pass to get citizenship? We're a pretty rich country in comparison to our neighbours, so we'd be flooded with some of their people for jobs if our borders aren't managed and citizenship a little bit more restricted. Would that bill be the correct place to write out work visas and tourist visas, etc? If not I could get started on those.

[Divitaen]

I like the citizenship bill, but you seem to use "Calaverdean Republic" everywhere even if this part isn't official yet. Try going for something more "neutral", maybe? Also do Central American nations have a Spanish-language test, and perhaps also a history/general knowledge of Calaverde test to pass to get citizenship? We're a pretty rich country in comparison to our neighbours, so we'd be flooded with some of their people for jobs if our borders aren't managed and citizenship a little bit more restricted. Would that bill be the correct place to write out work visas and tourist visas, etc? If not I could get started on those.

I would think this is a citizenship bill, it probably doesn't deal with immigration and non-citizen residents, so that would probably be in a different bill.