NSG Senate Coffee Shop: We don't serve decaf

[Arkolon]

Sponsored, Regina Marino NDP.

[Old Tyrannia]

National Symbols Act

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Author: Count Conrad Jaime Bernau of Urgell-Roussillon [PT]
Sponsors:

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§1 – Flag
The national flag of Calaverde shall be the following:

1. A vertical bicolor of blue, white and blue with the national coat of arms in the center
2. A version without the coat of arms may be used as a civil ensign or when a version with no coat of arms is available
3. The ratio of the flag shall be 1:2

§2 – Coat of arms
The national coat of arms of Calaverde shall consist of the following elements:

1. An escutcheon divided party per fess, with an image of a Spanish galleon sailing near the mountainous Calaverdese coastline in the upper division and a condor carrying a shovel and a pickaxe in the lower division, topped by a mural crown
2. Laurel leaves, two cornucopias, two fasci, two spears with phrygian caps in supporters
3. Two cannons in the compartment above a motto scroll reading "DIOS Y PATRIA"

§3 – Attachments

1. Flag
2. Coat of arms

Sponsored. Juana María Quixano, Ind.

[Lykens]

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

[Arkolon]

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

It's still possible to be secular and keep a historic motto for traditional reasons.

[Heraklea-]

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

It's still possible to be secular and keep a historic motto for traditional reasons.

We also just over threw a traditional Junta. New way forward!

[Lykens]

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

It's still possible to be secular and keep a historic motto for traditional reasons.

Then our political correctness will remove it.

[Atlanticatia]

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

It's still possible to be secular and keep a historic motto for traditional reasons.

Libertad y Igualdad!

[Old Tyrannia]

It's still possible to be secular and keep a historic motto for traditional reasons.

We also just over threw a traditional Junta. New way forward!

"Traditional" junta? I'm new here, please enlighten me- how long was this junta in existence? Since the 19th century?

[Nevamaa]

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

Oh, and for those who aren't comfortable with the motto.. This coat of arms was supposed to be designed in the 19th century, and if you look at the national mottos of Central American states almost all of them mention God in some way. I just wanted to be as realistic as possible, and thought that "DIOS Y ORDEN" was a good, historically accurate and very Central American motto.

I think that the motto should be kept for now as this flag is supposed to have been the flag of Calaverde for almost two centuries. If you want to remove the motto afterwards, I'm completely fine with that. In fact, I think it'd be very interesting to see different parties trying to alter the national symbols to their liking: Communists wanting to add a red star, liberals wanting to remove the word "God", monarchists wanting to replace the mural crown with a regular one and so on.

[Heraklea-]

We also just over threw a traditional Junta. New way forward!

"Traditional" junta? I'm new here, please enlighten me- how long was this junta in existence? Since the 19th century?

Since the '80s.

Remove the motto, this is a secular country.

Oh, and for those who aren't comfortable with the motto.. This coat of arms was supposed to be designed in the 19th century, and if you look at the national mottos of Central American states almost all of them mention God in some way. I just wanted to be as realistic as possible, and thought that "DIOS Y ORDEN" was a good, historically accurate and very Central American motto.

I think that the motto should be kept for now as this flag is supposed to have been the flag of Calaverde for almost two centuries. If you want to remove the motto afterwards, I'm completely fine with that. In fact, I think it'd be very interesting to see different parties trying to alter the national symbols to their liking: Communists wanting to add a red star, liberals wanting to remove the word "God", monarchists wanting to replace the mural crown with a regular one and so on.

You don't get to walk in and declare this what was. We collectively determine things about this country. The motto should be determined through a vote of the participants, not by your dictation.

[Old Tyrannia]

"Traditional" junta? I'm new here, please enlighten me- how long was this junta in existence? Since the 19th century?

Since the '80s.

So in other words, it wasn't around for nearly as long as the country's flag and coat of arms presumably have been and certainly not long enough to be considered "traditional."

[Arkolon]

Motion to just go by whatever Nevanmaa says on this one.

wrong thread, time, place, conditions-- everything lmao

[Old Tyrannia]

Motion to just go by whatever Nevanmaa says on this one.

wrong thread, time, place, conditions-- everything lmao

Motion seconded.

[Heraklea-]

Since the '80s.

So in other words, it wasn't around for nearly as long as the country's flag and coat of arms presumably have been and certainly not long enough to be considered "traditional."

You need to spend more time with Lykens so you can learn about that whole snark thing. I'm still against the motto and against someone walking in and trying to dictate this RP.

[Nevamaa]

The motto has been changed to "ORDEN Y PATRIA", which in hindsight is aesthetically better as the both words are roughly the same length. It's also relatively neutral and is historically fairly realistic. It can easily be changed to something more right-wing and religious or left-wing and progressive. I think this is a pretty good compromise solution.

[Old Tyrannia]

So in other words, it wasn't around for nearly as long as the country's flag and coat of arms presumably have been and certainly not long enough to be considered "traditional."

You need to spend more time with Lykens so you can learn about that whole snark thing. I'm still against the motto and against someone walking in and trying to dictate this RP.

No one is trying to just walk in and dictate this RP.

Hippo and I have just returned from a very extended absence and are attempting to contribute our opinions and ideas, which we have as much right to do as you.

[Lykens]

Or we could propose several and then vote on it, rather than have one person arbitrarily set it.

[Old Tyrannia]

Or we could propose several and then vote on it, rather than have one person arbitrarily set it.

Or we could acknowledge that it's Hippo's bill and he can do what he likes with it. If you don't agree, vote it down in the Chamber. That is how this still works, right? Last I remembered, the Coffee Shop was just a place to bounce about ideas and collect sponsors.

[Heraklea-]

You need to spend more time with Lykens so you can learn about that whole snark thing. I'm still against the motto and against someone walking in and trying to dictate this RP.

No one is trying to just walk in and dictate this RP.

Hippo and I have just returned from a very extended absence and are attempting to contribute our opinions and ideas, which we have as much right to do as you.

He's trying to say what the flag has been for 200 years. That is an attempt at dictating.

We held a contest previously and voted on the submissions to determine the flag. We should hold a new one in the lobby for the motto, and if there is support from the rest of the RPers, a vote on a new flag.

[Geilinor]

Hey, Hippo and OT are back. That should make this more interesting.

[Lykens]

Or we could propose several and then vote on it, rather than have one person arbitrarily set it.

Or we could acknowledge that it's Hippo's bill and he can do what he likes with it. If you don't agree, vote it down in the Chamber. That is how this still works, right? Last I remembered, the Coffee Shop was just a place to bounce about ideas and collect sponsors.

No.

We voted on Ike's flag proposal and several others before he wrote a bill.

Hippo doesn't get special treatment just because he makes pretty things or was in Aurentina.

[Nevamaa]

He's trying to say what the flag has been for 200 years. That is an attempt at dictating.

We held a contest previously and voted on the submissions to determine the flag. We should hold a new one in the lobby for the motto, and if there is support from the rest of the RPers, a vote on a new flag.

Yes, because it makes sense that we've always had a flag as opposed to us being flagless for 200 years and only recently coming up with an idea to create a flag.

As I said, this is a neutral attempt to create a relatively generic set of Central American national symbols that both sides can later attempt to change for political and ideological reasons.

[Geilinor]

He's trying to say what the flag has been for 200 years. That is an attempt at dictating.

We held a contest previously and voted on the submissions to determine the flag. We should hold a new one in the lobby for the motto, and if there is support from the rest of the RPers, a vote on a new flag.

Yes, because it makes sense that we've always had a flag as opposed to us being flagless for 200 years and only recently coming up with an idea to create a flag.

As I said, this is a neutral attempt to create a relatively generic set of Central American national symbols that both sides can later attempt to change for political and ideological reasons.

Or we had an old flag and we changed it after the junta.

[Heraklea-]

He's trying to say what the flag has been for 200 years. That is an attempt at dictating.

We held a contest previously and voted on the submissions to determine the flag. We should hold a new one in the lobby for the motto, and if there is support from the rest of the RPers, a vote on a new flag.

Yes, because it makes sense that we've always had a flag as opposed to us being flagless for 200 years and only recently coming up with an idea to create a flag.

As I said, this is a neutral attempt to create a relatively generic set of Central American national symbols that both sides can later attempt to change for political and ideological reasons.

And that should submitted for a contest in the lobby, just as we have handled previous matters like this. The history of Calaverde is determined OOCly in the Lobby, not in the Coffee Shop. Just like I already said several times.

[Sebastianbourg]

It's still possible to be secular and keep a historic motto for traditional reasons.

Libertad y e Igualdad!

Fixed.