NSG Senate Coffee Shop: We don't serve decaf

[Arkolon]

Pretty much 99% of politicians in a national parliament are in the top 25% of income earners. Even MPs in the UK get pay that puts them in the top 10% of incomes by the median wage. And they are some of the lowest paid politicians in the world......Well soon to be apart from us as I took the UK level and switched the pound sign for USD.

$103,255 for an MP
$137,707 for a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Really Junior minister. If we ever have them)
$152,034 for a Minister of State(Junior minister in charge of a department. If we ever have those.)/Deputy Speaker
$207,196 for a Cabinet Minister/VP/DPM/Speaker
$219,414 for the PM/President

adjusted for difference between the pound and the dollar

Nihil did it on purpose not to convert £:$, because switching the signs from £ to $, avoiding making things 1.54x more expensive, accounted for the fact that we're a poorer country than the US or the UK.

[Britanno]

Ok, i'm going to write a salary act. The numbers I am thinking are below.

$67,060 for an MP
$89,435 for a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Really Junior minister. If we ever have them)
$98,740 for a Minister of State(Junior minister in charge of a department. If we ever have those.)/Deputy Speaker
$134,565 for a Cabinet Minister/VP/DPM/Speaker
$142,500 for the PM/President


I also want to get feedback on what the expenses situation should be like.

I understand that senators need relatively high salaries to prevent corruption, but these seem a bit high since we are giving pretty much the same salaries the UK gives.

[The Nihilistic view]

Ok, i'm going to write a salary act. The numbers I am thinking are below.

$67,060 for an MP
$89,435 for a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Really Junior minister. If we ever have them)
$98,740 for a Minister of State(Junior minister in charge of a department. If we ever have those.)/Deputy Speaker
$134,565 for a Cabinet Minister/VP/DPM/Speaker
$142,500 for the PM/President


I also want to get feedback on what the expenses situation should be like.

I understand that senators need relatively high salaries to prevent corruption, but these seem a bit high since we are giving pretty much the same salaries the UK gives.

"I know you were complaining about economics talk yesterday but come on, surely the magical place that is the foreign exchange market is not beyond your grasp?

If they were "pretty much the same" an MP would be looking to be paid about $103,151 here. Now I don't know about you but I don't call a $35,000 dollar difference pretty much the same. "

[The Nihilistic view]

Pretty much 99% of politicians in a national parliament are in the top 25% of income earners. Even MPs in the UK get pay that puts them in the top 10% of incomes by the median wage. And they are some of the lowest paid politicians in the world......Well soon to be apart from us as I took the UK level and switched the pound sign for USD.

$103,255 for an MP
$137,707 for a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Really Junior minister. If we ever have them)
$152,034 for a Minister of State(Junior minister in charge of a department. If we ever have those.)/Deputy Speaker
$207,196 for a Cabinet Minister/VP/DPM/Speaker
$219,414 for the PM/President

adjusted for difference between the pound and the dollar

It's already in dollars.

[The New World Oceania]

If I may, perhaps architecture from the Muslim World will show not only our appreciation of contribution to arts and sciences, but our acceptance of diversity, also.

And if all else fails, roll in the postmodernity.

[Geilinor]

Any comments, suggestions, or sponsors?

Cheese Sale and Accessibility Act

Author- Liam Giuliani (Casearius)
Sponsors-

This act involves the accessibility of cheese to people in poverty or financial strain, to make cheese of all kinds as equally accessible to the upper class, as it is to the lower and middle class. This way, people of all kinds can have cheese as our forefathers intended it. This bill as well as pertaining to the accessibility of cheese, involves the regulation of the sale of cheese and the production of cheese.

Definitions:
• cheese- the curd of milk separated from the whey and prepared in many ways as a food
• edict- a decree issued by a sovereign or other authority
Purpose:
• To make cheese accessible to all.
• To increase morale of citizens (with cheese related activities.)
• To ensure that all people whether they are upper, middle, or lower class can have the same cheese related opportunities.
• To increase cheese market and boost economy.
• To put safety regulations on what can be put in cheese before resale based on approved substances from a government based cheese safety board.
§ 1 – Cheese Accessibility
• No individual, organization, corporation, etc. may deny a citizen the right to obtain or participate in, cheese, cheese related activities or events, producing cheese, etc.
• If a citizen of Calaverde is denied the right to cheese, or a cheese related product, activity, or the production of cheese, the individual, organization, corporation, etc. will be punished fiscally to promote equality in this country, and those surrounding us.
• If a citizen of Calaverde is denied entry into, or participation in, or application to, a play, movie, or any other public occurrence, for their usage or consumption of cheese, that individual, organization, corporation, etc. will be punished fiscally.
• If a citizen is denied a job opportunity, or interview, for his or her consumption, or usage of cheese, and it can be proven to be because of their usage or consumption of cheese, even if that citizen is more qualified, etc. a fiscal punishment will be set into place on that individual, organization, corporation, etc.
§ 2 – Exceptions
• Only in the case that a gathering or activity that requires a certain monetary amount to enter that has cheese within it and a citizen is denied entry for not having the proper funds, will no monetary penalty be put into place.
§ 3 – Regulation on the Sale of Cheese
• If cheese is sold without passing safety regulations, which state that no chemical or other substance that has been proven to be harmful, or not approved at all by the C.H.E.E.S.E. can be in the cheese that is being sold for later, or immediate consumption.
• If cheese that was sold to an individual or group causes harm to the consumer(s) of that cheese, then that vendor, salesman, or store will receive a fiscal punishment.
§ 4 – Regulation on the Production of Cheese
• If cheese is produced with harmful chemicals or other harmful substances, or substances that have not been approved by C.H.E.E.S.E. it cannot be sold to a vendor, salesman, or store, for resale and consumption.
• If cheese that was sold to a store, salesman, or vendor, causes harm to the consumer(s) of that cheese, then whoever may have produced that cheese will receive a fiscal punishment.
§ 5 – C.H.E.E.S.E.
• A board to oversee that this act is followed shall be formed
• It shall be known as the Cheese Health Entitlement Enterprise and Safety Edict, or C.H.E.E.S.E.
• It shall be consisted of three members, who are to be appointed by the Minister of Health
• The president may veto any appointment to the board
• A member of the board may be removed at any time by the President or Minister of Health

I'll sponsor as well

I'll sponsor.

[Dendart]

$103,255 for an MP
$137,707 for a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Really Junior minister. If we ever have them)
$152,034 for a Minister of State(Junior minister in charge of a department. If we ever have those.)/Deputy Speaker
$207,196 for a Cabinet Minister/VP/DPM/Speaker
$219,414 for the PM/President

adjusted for difference between the pound and the dollar

It's already in dollars.

i know but there is a significant difference between the pound sterling and the us dollar

[People Who Say Ni]

Ok, i'm going to write a salary act. The numbers I am thinking are below.

$67,060 for an MP
$89,435 for a Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Really Junior minister. If we ever have them)
$98,740 for a Minister of State(Junior minister in charge of a department. If we ever have those.)/Deputy Speaker
$134,565 for a Cabinet Minister/VP/DPM/Speaker
$142,500 for the PM/President


I also want to get feedback on what the expenses situation should be like.

I understand that senators need relatively high salaries to prevent corruption, but these seem a bit high since we are giving pretty much the same salaries the UK gives.

It's ridiculous to assert that even high salaries will stop corruption as most incidences of corruption deal with sums of money much larger than the figures we're dealing with today.
I, for one, propose a system in which senator wages correspond to a multiplication of the country's median wage, thus incentivising good economic policy.

[The Nihilistic view]

It's already in dollars.

i know but there is a significant difference between the pound sterling and the us dollar

And there is a significant difference between us and the UK. Your point?

[The Nihilistic view]

I understand that senators need relatively high salaries to prevent corruption, but these seem a bit high since we are giving pretty much the same salaries the UK gives.

It's ridiculous to assert that even high salaries will stop corruption as most incidences of corruption deal with sums of money much larger than the figures we're dealing with today.
I, for one, propose a system in which senator wages correspond to a multiplication of the country's median wage, thus incentivising good economic policy.

No, it incentivises short termist policy. I'm sure I don't need to tell you what happens in banking when remuneration is linked to such performance. It becomes all about end of year profits and sod any long term plan.

[People Who Say Ni]

It's ridiculous to assert that even high salaries will stop corruption as most incidences of corruption deal with sums of money much larger than the figures we're dealing with today.
I, for one, propose a system in which senator wages correspond to a multiplication of the country's median wage, thus incentivising good economic policy.

No, it incentivises short termist policy. I'm sure I don't need to tell you what happens in banking when remuneration is linked to such performance. It becomes all about end of year profits and sod any long term plan.

I'd still like to think we pride ourselves in this place on making sure the figures we use are both non-arbitrary and relevant. Obviously, I'm no policy virtuoso, but with sufficient modeling I'm sure we could come up with a system that reflects economic strength and fairness.

[Great Nepal]

No, it incentivises short termist policy. I'm sure I don't need to tell you what happens in banking when remuneration is linked to such performance. It becomes all about end of year profits and sod any long term plan.

I'd still like to think we pride ourselves in this place on making sure the figures we use are both non-arbitrary and relevant. Obviously, I'm no policy virtuoso, but with sufficient modeling I'm sure we could come up with a system that reflects economic strength and fairness.

A combined index - every MP, minister, PM and presidents are entitled to base salary which is close to living wage reflecting their level of responsibility. Everyone is further entitled to a bonus as determined by independent committee based on economic performance (both short term and long term of the nation) and achievement of the politician in their given position. Decision of the independent committee is final and can not be appealed or debated on in parliament however any MP is able to refuse to take the bonus (or part of it) should they wish to.

[The Nihilistic view]

I'd still like to think we pride ourselves in this place on making sure the figures we use are both non-arbitrary and relevant. Obviously, I'm no policy virtuoso, but with sufficient modeling I'm sure we could come up with a system that reflects economic strength and fairness.

A combined index - every MP, minister, PM and presidents are entitled to base salary which is close to living wage reflecting their level of responsibility. Everyone is further entitled to a bonus as determined by independent committee based on economic performance (both short term and long term of the nation) and achievement of the politician in their given position. Decision of the independent committee is final and can not be appealed or debated on in parliament however any MP is able to refuse to take the bonus (or part of it) should they wish to.

Yes lets make deciding pay as expensive as the actual pay, so we end up with a department that employs more people than there are actual MPs.

[Great Nepal]

A combined index - every MP, minister, PM and presidents are entitled to base salary which is close to living wage reflecting their level of responsibility. Everyone is further entitled to a bonus as determined by independent committee based on economic performance (both short term and long term of the nation) and achievement of the politician in their given position. Decision of the independent committee is final and can not be appealed or debated on in parliament however any MP is able to refuse to take the bonus (or part of it) should they wish to.

Yes lets make deciding pay as expensive as the actual pay, so we end up with a department that employs more people than there are actual MPs.

It wont be anywhere near expensive, we will have a small committee to make decision and most of analysis/ data collection done by software which makes recommendations to the committee.

[The Nihilistic view]

Yes lets make deciding pay as expensive as the actual pay, so we end up with a department that employs more people than there are actual MPs.

It wont be anywhere near expensive, we will have a small committee to make decision and most of analysis/ data collection done by software which makes recommendations to the committee.

You need experts on each policy area. You need experts on parliamentary affairs. Who sets the targets or decides what's good? politicians? A few people whose decision might be based on what they personally subscribe too. Take economics, different schools would rate the same actions differently. It depends on who happens to have the job. The cost of developing software, such specialist programmes are offten not cheap to commission.

They will have offices and other staff. To actually save any money at all basic MP pay would have to be almost non existent. A top performing MP would have to earn much less then $67K.

[Battlion]

So from what I've seen, we're wanting to nearly $150,000 the highest ranking politicians in a country compared to what we can safely say is not a high-wage economy at the moment?

$30,250 for Senators
$34,720 for Parliamentary Under-Secretary's of State (as Nihil said if we have them)
$39,500 for Ministers of State (Junior Ministers etc if we have them)/Deputy Speaker
$45,675 for Cabinet Members/VP/DPM + PM/Speaker
$52,500 for President

This I believe is far less expensive on the state and more grounded in "real wages" for our country, additionally I do not see any need for the Prime Minister to earn more than his/her cabinet colleagues for merely being able to survive a vote of confidence once they're nominated.

To arguments of "we won't get good quality Senators for low wages" I look forward to resignations from all sides as they're clearly in the job for all the wrong reasons!


OOC: Pay Less for Politicians, we don't need such high levels.

[The Nihilistic view]

---

Members of Parliament Pay and Expenses Act 2015

---

Author: The Right Honourable Boris Johnson
Sponsors: The Honourable Gloria Salinas deGroot, The Honourable Michael Joseph Giuliani,

An act to govern the pay and expenses of Members of Parliament; and for connected purposes.

---

Section 1 - Basic Remuneration

a) The Basic Pay for a Member of Parliament will be $67,060 per annum.

b) Members of Parliament that have extra responsibilities will also receive a second salary. These are given below;

• The President and Prime Minister will receive $75,440 USD per annum.
• The Vice President, Deputy Prime Minister, Ministers of council (full Cabinet Ministers in charge of a whole government Ministry) and President Pro Tempore of Parliament (Speaker) will receive $67,505 USD
• The Deputy President Pro Tempore of Parliament (Deputy Speaker) and Deputy Ministers will receive $31,680 USD
• Junior Ministers (those in charge of a department within a ministry) and Ministers without portfolio will receive $22,375 USD

c) It is only possible to receive a maximum of one second salary. A Member of Parliament the member will be paid the second salary of whichever position has the highest salary.

Section 2 - Members Expenses

a) Travel expenses. Each Member of Parliament is allowed to claim up to $8,000 USD worth of travel expenses per annum. This includes but is not limited to cost incurred when traveling by road, rail, air or sea on parliamentary business. This includes the commute to and from Parliament.

b) Housing expenses. Each Member of Parliment is allowed to claim up to $20,000 USD on a second home within the boundaries of the capital if their constituency and therefore primary residence is both outside of the capital and if it can be justified that it is too far away for the member to be reasonably expected to commute daily to Parliament. The sorts of things this is to cover but not limited to are the mortgage and any local property taxes, reasonable expenditure on furniture and other fixtures and fittings and utility bills on the second home within the capital.

c) Office expenses. Each Member of Parliament is allowed to claim up to $100,000 USD in office expenses per annum. This is to be spent on things but not limited to parliamentary staff in a member's Parliamentary office such as researchers and secritaries. To enable a Member of Parliament to maintain a constituency office in their constituency and to staff that office permanently. As well as assorted office supplies.

Section 3 - Expenses Claiming procedures

a) Expenses Claims are to be submitted to the Speaker's Office. The Speaker is responsible for devising a system of forms for the purpose of claiming expenses which are to be made available to all Members either at the Speaker's office during business hours Monday to Friday. In a downloadable format for print off from the Parliamentary Intranet or both.

b) All claims must be submitted with the relevant forms complete with all receipts relevant to the claim attached to the Speaker's office in person by the member wishing to make the claim.

c) Claims will then be assessed by either the Speaker or in event of their unavailability the Deputy Speaker. Members will be notified when their claim has been assessed and told whether the claims are accepted, rejected or further information is needed for a decision to be made.

d) Whether the claims are reasonable and justified under the types of expenses laid out in Section 2 of the bill is solely the discretion of the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker.

e) Members may appeal to the Speaker in person any rejected claims.

Section 4 - Payment Procedures

a) Members will be paid their annual salary in 12 equal payments on the first Monday of each calender month.

b) Expenses may be claimed throughout the year at any time and any claims signed off as acceptable by the Speaker or Deputy Speaker will be paid to the member on the first Monday of the following calender month.

c) Members pay and expenses will be backdated to the 1/1/2015 or to date the member took their seat in parliament. Whichever date is closer to the date of assent of the act.

Section 5 - Offences and Penalties

a) Expenses fraud - Knowingly claiming or attempting to claim parliamentary expenses contained in Section 2 in a fraudulent manner shall be publishable by a minimum prison term of two years. Any expenses ruled to be fraudulently claimed must also be paid back along with a fine of five times the amount found to be fraudulently claimed.

[Battlion]

No provisions for transparency and monitoring etc?

[Collatis]

$30,250 for Senators
$34,720 for Parliamentary Under-Secretary's of State (as Nihil said if we have them)
$39,500 for Ministers of State (Junior Ministers etc if we have them)/Deputy Speaker
$45,675 for Cabinet Members/VP/DPM + PM/Speaker
$52,500 for President

While it is true that corruption will occur no matter what, such low wages will certainly lead to more than average corruption. I would want the President to at least make $100,000 and then everyone makes slightly less.

[The Nihilistic view]

No provisions for transparency and monitoring etc?

I'm getting to that part. It's just basic pay and expenses levels at the mo.

[Battlion]

$30,250 for Senators
$34,720 for Parliamentary Under-Secretary's of State (as Nihil said if we have them)
$39,500 for Ministers of State (Junior Ministers etc if we have them)/Deputy Speaker
$45,675 for Cabinet Members/VP/DPM + PM/Speaker
$52,500 for President

While it is true that corruption will occur no matter what, such low wages will certainly lead to more than average corruption. I would want the President to at least make $100,000 and then everyone makes slightly less.

I wasn't aware that the average wage for Calaverde (if I was right at about $20,000 idk) was low under these standards, to me this looks more like we're trying to grab as much money as we can for ourselves and leave everyone else out of it.

[Collatis]

Boris' bill seems fine to me. I'll sponsor - Senator Michael Giuliani - DL

[Collatis]

I wasn't aware that the average wage for Calaverde (if I was right at about $20,000 idk) was low under these standards, to me this looks more like we're trying to grab as much money as we can for ourselves and leave everyone else out of it.

I think that considering that the President has the most difficult job in the country, they deserve to make a decent amount of money. However, I am okay with what Boris suggested.

[New Werpland]

If I may, perhaps architecture from the Muslim World will show not only our appreciation of contribution to arts and sciences, but our acceptance of diversity, also.

And if all else fails, roll in the postmodernity.

no please no Robert Venturi should be dead by now.

[Battlion]

We're Senators not MP's right?