NSG Senate Coffee Shop: We don't serve decaf

[Estva]

Yeah, drop the ban on public carry. We're going to regret a stupid move like that against law-abiding citizens in a black market-inclined region like this.

Why would someone need to be publicly carrying a firearm when self-defence is not considered a valid use? You don't need to carry a loaded weapon on your hip to go to the shooting range, or to bring it to hunting grounds. I'm not sure how public carry would be justifiable.

Why on god's green earth is self-defense not considered a valid use?

[Atlanticatia]

Why would someone need to be publicly carrying a firearm when self-defence is not considered a valid use? You don't need to carry a loaded weapon on your hip to go to the shooting range, or to bring it to hunting grounds. I'm not sure how public carry would be justifiable.

Why on god's green earth is self-defense not considered a valid use?

Because it's not a valid reason to own a firearm - you need to have a good reason. Self-defence is too open ended and can lead it to getting into the wrong hands. It's also pretty uncommon for it to be considered a valid reason for gun ownership, and even if it is it is rare or a special reason is required. This law is based upon common global practice.

[New Zepuha]

Why on god's green earth is self-defense not considered a valid use?

Because it's not a valid reason to own a firearm - you need to have a good reason. Self-defence is too open ended and can lead it to getting into the wrong hands. It's also pretty uncommon for it to be considered a valid reason for gun ownership, and even if it is it is rare or a special reason is required. This law is based upon common global practice.

Not neccessarily. The law is based upon precedent and regional influences, if global practice were the issue then why have so many nations ignored the ban on self defense? And how is that too open ended, self defense is pretty straightforward.

Are you about to cause me bodily harm? Yes? Then I am going to prevent you from doing that.

[Estva]

Because it's not a valid reason to own a firearm - you need to have a good reason. Self-defence is too open ended and can lead it to getting into the wrong hands.

Then why would "collector" or "hobbyist"" be any better? These can be faked, and I thoroughly doubt having the police investigate every single request will go well. They are just going to get something off the black market at this point.

It's also pretty uncommon for it to be considered a valid reason for gun ownership, and even if it is it is rare or a special reason is required.

Nations that allow it for personal protection - Austria, Argentina, Canada, Brazil, the Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Honduras, Italy, Mexico, Switzerland, and the US. That is hardly "rare".

[Atlanticatia]

Because it's not a valid reason to own a firearm - you need to have a good reason. Self-defence is too open ended and can lead it to getting into the wrong hands.

Then why would "collector" or "hobbyist"" be any better? These can be faked, and I thoroughly doubt having the police investigate every single request will go well. They are just going to get something off the black market at this point.

It's also pretty uncommon for it to be considered a valid reason for gun ownership, and even if it is it is rare or a special reason is required.

Nations that allow it for personal protection - Austria, Argentina, Canada, Brazil, the Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Honduras, Italy, Mexico, Switzerland, and the US. That is hardly "rare".

As I said, there are additional checks and balances, and the issue of self defence permits is a rare occurrence. It does not have equal status to, say, a hunting permit in the countries where it is legal. I do not believe that people should have an open-ended ability to own a firearm for self-defence.

[Estva]

As I said, there are additional checks and balances, and the issue of self defence permits is a rare occurrence.

Perhaps it is, but in few countries is self defense considered an invalid reason and it cannot be used to obtain a firearm period. One has leass reason to own a firearm for self-defense in France then you do in, say, Mexico.

It does not have equal status to, say, a hunting permit in the countries where it is legal. I do not believe that people should have an open-ended ability to own a firearm for self-defence.

So what? I am content with forcing them to keep it in their house if it is for self-defense. I don't care about public carry. I am firmly against a blanket ban, however, and considering we are going to be in a nation with high amounts of crime, a virulent black market, and known rebel criminal militias, a full on ban on firearms for self-defense will achieve will achieve little. Instead the middle-class will turn to the black market and the poor will just be doomed as prices skyrocket.

[Estva]

Armed Forces Establishment Act

Author: Senator Léon Suero - Liberal Democratic Party (Estva)
Sponsors: Senator Gloria Salinas deGroot - The Free Citizens Party (New Zepuha), Senator Regina Christina Marino - The Liberal Democratic Party (Arkolon)

---

Definitions -
1. Armed Forces: An institution or group of institutions designed to use military force.

§ 1 Establishment -
1. The Calaverdean Defense Forces (CDF) shall be the armed forces of Calaverde established with the goal of protecting the nation against external threats, partaking in humanitarian missions, intervening in revolts or revolutions, and counter-terroism operations.
2. The CDF shall consist of the Calaverdean Army, the Calaverdean Navy, and the Calverdean Air-force.

§ 2 Structure -
1. The head commander of the CDF shall be the President of Calaverde. The President shall have full power to override decisions made by subordinates within the extent of his or her legal abilities.
2. The Minister of Defense shall be the next in command, possessing the capability to override the decisions by all subordinates within the extent of his or her legal abilities.
3. Below the Minister of Defense shall be the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which shall consist of the Chief of Staff of each armed branch.
4. The exact military structure shall be determined by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
5. Each Chief of Staff shall be appointed by the Minister of Defense and is subject to approval by the Senate.
6. All officers of the CDF are commissioned by the Senate. The Joint Chiefs of Staff are responsible for creating a list of recommended candidates for commission and/or promotion at least once a year for the Senate to approve.
7. Conscription on all citizens at the age of 18 to 37 may be enacted if approved by the Senate and the nation is under threat of imminent invasion.
8. Failure to answer a call to conscription without a valid reason will result in no more than 2 years of prison time.
9. The only exemptions to conscription shall be physical or mental disability, service in the government, incarceration, and/or previous military service.

§ 3 Service -
1. To serve in the CDF, one must meet physical qualifications to be determined by the Minister of Defense.
2. Special positions may require technical qualifications.
2. To serve in the CDF one must be at least 18 years of age.
4. Men and women may serve to the same capacity so long as the physical and technical qualifications for both sexes are uniform.

§ 4 Abilities -
1. The CDF shall have the ability to engage in lethal force on foreign citizens without warrant to fulfill any mission given to it.
2. The CDF shall not engage lethal force on Calverdean citizens, permanent residents, or temporary residents unless -
a. They are in the process of committing a crime such as high treason.
b. They are deliberately obstructing CDF forces with full intent after the CDF has exhausted every opportunity to make them stop.
c. They are aiding an invading force or revolt.
3. The President has the ability to use the CDF to react to threats without permission of the Senate. However, any use must be approved by the Senate within 1 month and unjust commands are grounds for a vote of no confidence.
4. The CDF shall not be used for policing of common crimes, and shall be used only for the previous reasons.
5. The President may declare a period of martial law that may last no longer than 2 weeks. During martial law, the CDF gains all the powers of the Calaverdean police.

Please add critiques in case I made a mistake or forgot something crucial.

[Geilinor]

Self-defense is a far more logical reason to own a gun than "sport" or "collecting" is. There should be regulation, but that and hunting are the most reasonable.

[New Zepuha]

Sponsored the Armed forces act.

[Lykens]

Let's not do conscription.

And let's not have the CDF do any kind of lethal force against anyone, foreign or Calaverdean.

And let's not have the President be able to order the CDF to do things without permission from the Senate, lest we have another Junta, after we just overthrew the last one.

[Estva]

Let's not do conscription.

Why? In war this is necessary.

And let's not have the CDF do any kind of lethal force against anyone, foreign or Calaverdean.

Then what is the point of having a military?

And let's not have the President be able to order the CDF to do things without permission from the Senate, lest we have another Junta, after we just overthrew the last one.

Then what is the point of him being Commander-in-Chief? We cannot wait for the Senate to validate military actions that need to be immediately taken. The President cannot commit illegal activities, regardless of Senate approval. This includes unlawful arrest or use of force.

[Estva]

Sponsored the Armed forces act.

Thank you. Added.

[Heraklea-]

Armed Forces Establishment Act

Author: Senator Léon Suero - Liberal Democratic Party (Estva)
Sponsors:

---

Definitions -
1. Armed Forces: An institution or group of institutions designed to use military force.

§ 1 Establishment -
1. The Calaverdean Defense Forces (CDF) shall be the armed forces of Calaverde established with the goal of protecting the nation against external threats, partaking in humanitarian missions, intervening in revolts or revolutions, and counter-terroism operations.
2. The CDF shall consist of the Calaverdean Army, the Calaverdean Navy, and the Calverdean Air-force.

§ 2 Structure -
1. The head commander of the CDF shall be the President of Calaverde. The President shall have full power to override decisions made by subordinates within the extent of his or her legal abilities.
2. The Minister of Defense shall be the next in command, possessing the capability to override the decisions by all subordinates within the extent of his or her legal abilities.
3. Below the Minister of Defense shall be the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which shall consist of the chief of staff of each armed branch.
4. The exact military structure shall be determined by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
5. Each Joint Chief of Staff shall be appointed by the Minister of Defense.

§ 3 Service -
1. To serve in the CDF, one must meet physical qualifications to be determined by the Minister of Defense.
2. Special positions may require technical qualifications.
2. To serve in the CDF one must be at least 18 years of age.
3. During times of war, the CDF may conscript registered citizens of at least 18 years of age and that meet physical qualification so long as such conscription is approved by the Senate and the President.
4. Failure to answer a call for conscription without a valid reason shall result in no more than 2 years of prison.
5. Men and women may serve to the same capacity so long as the physical and technical qualifications for both sexes are uniform.

§ 4 Abilities -
1. The CDF shall have the ability to engage in lethal force on foreign citizens without warrant to fulfill any mission given to it.
2. The CDF shall not engage lethal force on Calverdean citiens unless -
a. They are in the process of committing a crime such as high treason.
b. They are deliberately obstructing CDF forces with full intent after the CDF has exhausted every opportunity to make them stop.
c. They are aiding an invading force or revolt.
3. The President has the ability to use the CDF to react to threats without permission of the Senate. However, any use must be approved by the Senate within 1 month and unjust commands are grounds for a vote of no confidence.
4. The CDF shall not be used for policing of common crimes, and shall be used only for the previous reasons.
5. The President may declare a period of martial law that may last no longer than 2 weeks. During martial law, the CDF gains all the power of the Calaverdean police.

Please add critiques in case i made a mistake.forgot something crucial.

It should be a Chief of Staff, not a Joint Chief of Staff. The Joint part is that it is all of them. Also, I recommend establishing that officers are commissioned by the Senate, and that each Chief of Staff is subject to approval by the Senate.

[Estva]

Armed Forces Establishment Act

Author: Senator Léon Suero - Liberal Democratic Party (Estva)
Sponsors:

---

Definitions -
1. Armed Forces: An institution or group of institutions designed to use military force.

§ 1 Establishment -
1. The Calaverdean Defense Forces (CDF) shall be the armed forces of Calaverde established with the goal of protecting the nation against external threats, partaking in humanitarian missions, intervening in revolts or revolutions, and counter-terroism operations.
2. The CDF shall consist of the Calaverdean Army, the Calaverdean Navy, and the Calverdean Air-force.

§ 2 Structure -
1. The head commander of the CDF shall be the President of Calaverde. The President shall have full power to override decisions made by subordinates within the extent of his or her legal abilities.
2. The Minister of Defense shall be the next in command, possessing the capability to override the decisions by all subordinates within the extent of his or her legal abilities.
3. Below the Minister of Defense shall be the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which shall consist of the chief of staff of each armed branch.
4. The exact military structure shall be determined by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
5. Each Joint Chief of Staff shall be appointed by the Minister of Defense.

§ 3 Service -
1. To serve in the CDF, one must meet physical qualifications to be determined by the Minister of Defense.
2. Special positions may require technical qualifications.
2. To serve in the CDF one must be at least 18 years of age.
3. During times of war, the CDF may conscript registered citizens of at least 18 years of age and that meet physical qualification so long as such conscription is approved by the Senate and the President.
4. Failure to answer a call for conscription without a valid reason shall result in no more than 2 years of prison.
5. Men and women may serve to the same capacity so long as the physical and technical qualifications for both sexes are uniform.

§ 4 Abilities -
1. The CDF shall have the ability to engage in lethal force on foreign citizens without warrant to fulfill any mission given to it.
2. The CDF shall not engage lethal force on Calverdean citiens unless -
a. They are in the process of committing a crime such as high treason.
b. They are deliberately obstructing CDF forces with full intent after the CDF has exhausted every opportunity to make them stop.
c. They are aiding an invading force or revolt.
3. The President has the ability to use the CDF to react to threats without permission of the Senate. However, any use must be approved by the Senate within 1 month and unjust commands are grounds for a vote of no confidence.
4. The CDF shall not be used for policing of common crimes, and shall be used only for the previous reasons.
5. The President may declare a period of martial law that may last no longer than 2 weeks. During martial law, the CDF gains all the power of the Calaverdean police.

Please add critiques in case i made a mistake.forgot something crucial.

It should be a Chief of Staff, not a Joint Chief of Staff. The Joint part is that it is all of them. 2 .Also, I recommend establishing that officers are commissioned by the Senate, and that each 3. Chief of Staff is subject to approval by the Senate.

1. Yes, that is a mistake, I will fix that. Thank you.
2. So long as they do not have to vote to approve each one.
3. I agree with that entirely.

[Belmaria]

I think it's five.

Its five excluding the author.

That doesn't make any sense. What if a bill is authored by five senators? Such a bill would have already exemplified its diverse support base by the number of co-authors. I would like an admin ruling on this plox.

[Atlanticatia]

Let's not do conscription.

And let's not have the CDF do any kind of lethal force against anyone, foreign or Calaverdean.

And let's not have the President be able to order the CDF to do things without permission from the Senate, lest we have another Junta, after we just overthrew the last one.

This. I think the military should be largely reserved to performing a peacekeeping and humanitarian role. It's unlikely that we will need a large or aggressive military, nor is there is a need for conscription. After the many decades of the Junta, the last thing we need is a large, generously-funded military.

[Belmaria]

Substance Enforcement Guidelines Act (SEGA)
| Authors: Belmaria (FCP) | Great Nepal (LDP)
| Sponsors:

§1 On Alcohols and Alcoholic Substances
The national government of Calaverde shall not prohibit sale of or consumption of alcohol or alcoholic substances by any individual, group, organization or business unless for the explicit purposes of:
i. Preventing sale of alcohols or alcoholic substances to individuals under the age of majority, which, unless otherwise defined, shall be 18.
ii. Preventing sale of alcohol or alcoholic substances which are deemed unsafe for human consumption by the legislative body of the nation.
iii. Preventing the forced consumption of alcohol by parties deemed malicious by a court of law.

§2 On Marijuana and Marijuana-Containing Substances
The national government of Calaverde shall not prohibit sale of or consumption of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances by any individual, group, organization or business unless for the explicit purposes of:
i. Preventing sale of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances to individuals under the age of majority, which, unless otherwise defined, shall be 18.
ii. Preventing sale of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances which are deemed unsafe for human consumption by the legislative body of Calaverde.
iii. Preventing the forced consumption of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances by parties deemed malicious by a court of law.

§2 On Hypnotics, Psychedelics, Hallucinogens, and Sedatives (HPHS)
The national government of Calaverde shall not prohibit sale of or consumption of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances by any individual, group, organization or business unless for the explicit purposes of:
i. Preventing sale of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances to individuals under the age of majority, which, unless otherwise defined, shall be 18.
ii. Preventing sale of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances which are deemed unsafe for human consumption by the legislative body of the nation.
iii. Preventing the forced consumption of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances by parties deemed malicious by a court of law.
iv. Preventing the sale, consumption, or otherwise distribution of any HPHS or HPHS-containing substance to individuals without a physician-issued prescription for the drug or substance, if required by any legislation passed by the legislative body of Calaverde.

Any sponsors?

I'll sponsor.

Substance Enforcement Guidelines Act (SEGA)
| Authors: Belmaria (FCP) | Great Nepal (LDP)
| Sponsors:

§1 On Alcohols and Alcoholic Substances
The national government of Calaverde shall not prohibit sale of or consumption of alcohol or alcoholic substances by any individual, group, organization or business unless for the explicit purposes of:
i. Preventing sale of alcohols or alcoholic substances to individuals under the age of majority, which, unless otherwise defined, shall be 18.
ii. Preventing sale of alcohol or alcoholic substances which are deemed unsafe for human consumption by the legislative body of the nation.
iii. Preventing the forced consumption of alcohol by parties deemed malicious by a court of law.

§2 On Marijuana and Marijuana-Containing Substances
The national government of Calaverde shall not prohibit sale of or consumption of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances by any individual, group, organization or business unless for the explicit purposes of:
i. Preventing sale of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances to individuals under the age of majority, which, unless otherwise defined, shall be 18.
ii. Preventing sale of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances which are deemed unsafe for human consumption by the legislative body of Calaverde.
iii. Preventing the forced consumption of marijuana or marijuana-containing substances by parties deemed malicious by a court of law.

§2 On Hypnotics, Psychedelics, Hallucinogens, and Sedatives (HPHS)
The national government of Calaverde shall not prohibit sale of or consumption of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances by any individual, group, organization or business unless for the explicit purposes of:
i. Preventing sale of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances to individuals under the age of majority, which, unless otherwise defined, shall be 18.
ii. Preventing sale of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances which are deemed unsafe for human consumption by the legislative body of the nation.
iii. Preventing the forced consumption of HPHS or HPHS-containing substances by parties deemed malicious by a court of law.
iv. Preventing the sale, consumption, or otherwise distribution of any HPHS or HPHS-containing substance to individuals without a physician-issued prescription for the drug or substance, if required by any legislation passed by the legislative body of Calaverde.

Any sponsors?

I'll sponsor.

Thank you both. Your sponsorships will be added shortly.

[Estva]

Let's not do conscription.

And let's not have the CDF do any kind of lethal force against anyone, foreign or Calaverdean.

And let's not have the President be able to order the CDF to do things without permission from the Senate, lest we have another Junta, after we just overthrew the last one.

This. I think the military should be largely reserved to performing a peacekeeping and humanitarian role. It's unlikely that we will need a large or aggressive military, nor is there is a need for conscription. After the many decades of the Junta, the last thing we need is a large, generously-funded military.

Funding is determined by the Senate. Conscription must also be approved by the Senate, and cannot be ordered without such approval. This is reserved for extreme scenarios, such as a civil war, or war with a neighboring nations.

[Heraklea-]

2. So long as they do not have to vote to approve each one.

In several countries, officers are commissioned en mass and promotion is handled once a year for all officers. Such matters can be handled by an act of the Senate doing the entirety en mass. Make it a requirement that the Chief of Staff provide the Senate with a recommended list of persons to be commissioned or granted a commission with a higher rank.

[Estva]

2. So long as they do not have to vote to approve each one.

In several countries, officers are commissioned en mass and promotion is handled once a year for all officers. Such matters can be handled by an act of the Senate doing the entirety en mass. Make it a requirement that the Chief of Staff provide the Senate with a recommended list of persons to be commissioned or granted a commission with a higher rank.

That I am fine with, I shall add it.

[The Nihilistic view]

Self-defense is a far more logical reason to own a gun than "sport" or "collecting" is. There should be regulation, but that and hunting are the most reasonable.

But which is bought with the express purpose of harming/killing Human Beings. And therefore more likely to risk somebody shooting somebody else when it was not justified?

Gun restrictions are about putting the right to life ahead of the right to have a gun. Taking the type of guns most likely to be used to kill off the streets as well as not allowing gun ownership for reasons where being in a situation where the possibility of killing another person is a primary motive.


Anyway, Seb stick me down as a sponsor for the Firearm Regulation and Safety Protection Act. Boris Johnson MP (Since it appears we are a parliament not a senate under the government act it's time to use Post-nominals )

[Estva]

But which is bought with the express purpose of harming/killing Human Beings. And therefore more likely to risk somebody shooting somebody else when it was not justified?

Gun restrictions are about putting the right to life ahead of the right to have a gun. Taking the type of guns most likely to be used to kill off the streets as well as not allowing gun ownership for reasons where being in a situation where the possibility of killing another person is a primary motive.

So then why do we not ban the purchase of a knife with the sole intentions of harming human being? Or the purchase of a blunt object?

[Atlanticatia]

Anyway, Seb stick me down as a sponsor for the Firearm Regulation and Safety Protection Act. Boris Johnson MP (Since it appears we are a parliament not a senate under the government act it's time to use Post-nominals )

Gladly!

Anyone else? I need one more sponsor.

[The Nihilistic view]

But which is bought with the express purpose of harming/killing Human Beings. And therefore more likely to risk somebody shooting somebody else when it was not justified?

Gun restrictions are about putting the right to life ahead of the right to have a gun. Taking the type of guns most likely to be used to kill off the streets as well as not allowing gun ownership for reasons where being in a situation where the possibility of killing another person is a primary motive.

So then why do we not ban the purchase of a knife with the sole intentions of harming human being? Or the purchase of a blunt object?

We will at some point ban the carrying of knives in public and knives which are made for the sole purpose of inflicting harm on human beings should be banned. But as you had probably noticed this bill is about guns not knives.

[Estva]

So then why do we not ban the purchase of a knife with the sole intentions of harming human being? Or the purchase of a blunt object?

We will at some point ban the carrying of knives in public and knives which are made for the sole purpose of inflicting harm on human beings should be banned. But as you had probably noticed this bill is about guns not knives.

Then this justification can apply to many more things. What happens if you buy a car with the intent to kill? A bat? A tire iron? Take martial arts with the intent to kill?

And as for banning knives, I suppose that means it will be illegal to cook in public, to go camping in nature preserves, and many other problems that show such a act is extremely overreaching. We live in a country where militias and rebels can terrorize town and we want to deprive the citizens the ability to defend themselves?