[NSGS] Placeholderstani Workers' Alliance (Planning)

[The New Sea Territory]

Ok, so, if the Council-based platforms passes (currently, it is 5-2 in favor on the poll site), what will be the basic alliance tenets. We need five to ten points to express the basis of our alliance.

Here's what Glasgia wrote:

1) We do not support violent revolution. However, we strongly believe a social and economic revolution is necessary to create an egalitarian nation.
2) We do not support uneccessary interference in the personal lives of the people and oppose arbitrary enforcement of “morality” in favour of social freedoms.
3) We support a social “safety net” and strict regulation of business in order to protect the worker and those who cannot work from harm in a Capitalist economy and during the transition away from Capitalism
4) We support the nationalisation of public necessities and their provision free of cost, or at as little cost as possible
5) We support global co-operation and free trade, in order to ensure advantages from the global market for workers internationally

Personally, the only part I disagree with is mentioning nationalization. I think most left-libertarians would be more in line with worker control of the company rather than the state's control.

[Kincoboh]

Ok, so, if the Council-based platforms passes (currently, it is 5-2 in favor on the poll site), what will be the basic alliance tenets. We need five to ten points to express the basis of our alliance.

Here's what Glasgia wrote:

1) We do not support violent revolution. However, we strongly believe a social and economic revolution is necessary to create an egalitarian nation.
2) We do not support uneccessary interference in the personal lives of the people and oppose arbitrary enforcement of “morality” in favour of social freedoms.
3) We support a social “safety net” and strict regulation of business in order to protect the worker and those who cannot work from harm in a Capitalist economy and during the transition away from Capitalism
4) We support the nationalisation of public necessities and their provision free of cost, or at as little cost as possible
5) We support global co-operation and free trade, in order to ensure advantages from the global market for workers internationally

Personally, the only part I disagree with is mentioning nationalization. I think most left-libertarians would be more in line with worker control of the company rather than the state's control.

Agreed. Maybe we should also talk about, instead of free-trade, alter-globaliztion:

Alter-globalization (also known as alternative globalization, alter-mundialization—from the French "alter-mondialisation"—or the global justice movement) is the name of a social movement whose proponents support global cooperation and interaction, but oppose what they describe as the negative effects of economic globalization, feeling that it often works to the detriment of, or does not adequately promote, human values such as environmental and climate protection, economic justice, labor protection, protection of indigenous cultures, peace and civil liberties.

[Kincoboh]

Perhaps also talk about foreign affairs: non-interventionist but supporting foreign aid for countries in need?

[Kazirstan]

I agree with the inclusion of nationalisation. I believe nationalisation is a stepping stone towards worker's control, but perhaps not a final solution.

In that list, I believe we should include a point about environmentalism. I got nothing, so if somebody can come up with one that'd be great. Also, I think we should explicitly use the term "welfare state" in there somewhere, just to make it clear. And maybe a point about free education, primary through to post-secondary. Also, a point to about secularism and the separation of church and state.

I believe those are points we can all agree on?

[The New Sea Territory]

Perhaps also talk about foreign affairs: non-interventionist but supporting foreign aid for countries in need?

I think that should be a free vote. It's not really tied directly to the predominantly economic basis of this alliance.

[The New Sea Territory]

I agree with the inclusion of nationalisation. I believe nationalisation is a stepping stone towards worker's control, but perhaps not a final solution.

In that list, I believe we should include a point about environmentalism. I got nothing, so if somebody can come up with one that'd be great. Also, I think we should explicitly use the term "welfare state" in there somewhere, just to make it clear. And maybe a point about free education, primary through to post-secondary. Also, a point to about secularism and the separation of church and state.

I believe those are points we can all agree on?

It's not that we have to replace the term "nationalization" with "worker-self management", but rather we just don't mention either and simply state something more vague like "giving democratic control of labor to the workers, not the bosses".

Agreed everywhere else except for the welfare state. We don't have to mention the left-libertarian side, but we also don't have to include that, just don't mention it and leave that to council platforms.

[Heraklea-]

Nationalization falls in line with my own views, so I have no issue with that. Even still, public necessities brings to mind water, power, health care and the like. Those sort of things lend themselves more to state control in as much as they are necessary for everything.

[Heraklea-]

Agreed. Maybe we should also talk about, instead of free-trade, alter-globaliztion:

Alter-globalization (also known as alternative globalization, alter-mundialization—from the French "alter-mondialisation"—or the global justice movement) is the name of a social movement whose proponents support global cooperation and interaction, but oppose what they describe as the negative effects of economic globalization, feeling that it often works to the detriment of, or does not adequately promote, human values such as environmental and climate protection, economic justice, labor protection, protection of indigenous cultures, peace and civil liberties.

I'd support that.

[Kincoboh]

Perhaps also talk about foreign affairs: non-interventionist but supporting foreign aid for countries in need?

I think that should be a free vote. It's not really tied directly to the predominantly economic basis of this alliance.

Good call.

I agree with the inclusion of nationalisation. I believe nationalisation is a stepping stone towards worker's control, but perhaps not a final solution.

In that list, I believe we should include a point about environmentalism. I got nothing, so if somebody can come up with one that'd be great. Also, I think we should explicitly use the term "welfare state" in there somewhere, just to make it clear. And maybe a point about free education, primary through to post-secondary. Also, a point to about secularism and the separation of church and state.

I believe those are points we can all agree on?

I really like Aldo Leopold's land ethic. But let's not take this too lightly. How deep are we going to go in with this? We can have a council that deals with the environment, but let's see.

-There is a need for a new ethic, an ethic dealing with human's relation to land and to the animals and plants which grow upon it. In this, the Worker's Party is dedicated to preserving the pristine wilderness from human exploitation. For areas on the land that are especially valuable, however, the Worker's Party is for conserving and sustainably managing resources so that it benefits all of Placeholderstanis.

[The New Sea Territory]

Ok....seeing as this term keeps being misused, I'm going to define it.

The "Councils" are not made for talking about various issues. They are a "tendency" of the Alliance. One for libertarians, one for market socialists, etc. to ensure proper representation in the Central Committee and maintain autonomy, meaning that the council is free to act on it's own. Perhaps we should call them "clubs" or "tendencies" instead.

We could, however, set up an Environmentalist Committee, which just spits out bills regarding the environment and sends them off to the Central Committee.

[Kazirstan]

Ok....seeing as this term keeps being misused, I'm going to define it.

The "Councils" are not made for talking about various issues. They are a "tendency" of the Alliance. One for libertarians, one for market socialists, etc. to ensure proper representation in the Central Committee and maintain autonomy, meaning that the council is free to act on it's own. Perhaps we should call them "clubs" or "tendencies" instead.

We could, however, set up an Environmentalist Committee, which just spits out bills regarding the environment and sends them off to the Central Committee.

I don't see that as being necessary, as environmentalism is a central tenet of most leftist ideologies, therefore, I think a statement regarding environmentalism should be included in the central list of tenets and all of the councils can work on environmental issues together.

[Kincoboh]

Ok....seeing as this term keeps being misused, I'm going to define it.

The "Councils" are not made for talking about various issues. They are a "tendency" of the Alliance. One for libertarians, one for market socialists, etc. to ensure proper representation in the Central Committee and maintain autonomy, meaning that the council is free to act on it's own. Perhaps we should call them "clubs" or "tendencies" instead.

We could, however, set up an Environmentalist Committee, which just spits out bills regarding the environment and sends them off to the Central Committee.

Alright, but isn't eco-socialism/anarcho-primitivism a major part of left ideology?

[The New Sea Territory]

Ok....seeing as this term keeps being misused, I'm going to define it.

The "Councils" are not made for talking about various issues. They are a "tendency" of the Alliance. One for libertarians, one for market socialists, etc. to ensure proper representation in the Central Committee and maintain autonomy, meaning that the council is free to act on it's own. Perhaps we should call them "clubs" or "tendencies" instead.

We could, however, set up an Environmentalist Committee, which just spits out bills regarding the environment and sends them off to the Central Committee.

I don't see that as being necessary, as environmentalism is a central tenet of most leftist ideologies, therefore, I think a statement regarding environmentalism should be included in the central list of tenets and all of the councils can work on environmental issues together.

I was just using that as an example. I think environmentalism is something that should be adopted as one of the core alliance tenets. That, pro-LGBT+ (specifically) and feminism.

[The New Sea Territory]

Ok....seeing as this term keeps being misused, I'm going to define it.

The "Councils" are not made for talking about various issues. They are a "tendency" of the Alliance. One for libertarians, one for market socialists, etc. to ensure proper representation in the Central Committee and maintain autonomy, meaning that the council is free to act on it's own. Perhaps we should call them "clubs" or "tendencies" instead.

We could, however, set up an Environmentalist Committee, which just spits out bills regarding the environment and sends them off to the Central Committee.

Alright, but isn't eco-socialism/anarcho-primitivism a major part of left ideology?

It is and isn't. Anarcho-primitivism could be, in most cases, considered libertarian socialism. I would consider it, anyway. Ask Merizoc about that one. All socialism is more or less inherently environmentalist. We can have it put in the Alliance tenets.

[Kincoboh]

So, what do you guys think of the statement regarding the environment? Perhaps flesh it out more regarding the intrinsic value of nature? Or? Any thoughts?

[Heraklea-]

Alright, but isn't eco-socialism/anarcho-primitivism a major part of left ideology?

Eco-socialism certainly but anarcho-primitivism not so much.

[The New Sea Territory]

So, what do you guys think of the statement regarding the environment? Perhaps flesh it out more regarding the intrinsic value of nature? Or? Any thoughts?

I like it.

[Kazirstan]

Okay, so things that need to be added to the list:

Environmentalism
LGBT rights
Feminism/Egalitarianism
Education (primary through to post-secondary)
Secularism/Seperation of Church and State

Anything else?

[Kincoboh]

So, what do you guys think of the statement regarding the environment? Perhaps flesh it out more regarding the intrinsic value of nature? Or? Any thoughts?

I like it.

Alright, so, how about:

-The Worker's Party recognizes the intrinsic value of all living beings, and is dedicated to preserving the pristine wilderness from human exploitation. For areas on the land that are especially valuable, however, the Worker's Party is for conserving and sustainably managing resources so that it benefits all of Placeholderstanis.

[Kazirstan]

I like it.

Alright, so, how about:

-The Worker's Party recognizes the intrinsic value of all living beings, and is dedicated to preserving the pristine wilderness from human exploitation. For areas on the land that are especially valuable, however, the Worker's Party is for conserving and sustainably managing resources so that it benefits all of Placeholderstanis.

I like it.

[Bojikami]

Will of joinings.

[The New Sea Territory]

Will of joinings.

I hate to be "that guy", but I think most people here agreed this isn't open to Vanguardist Communists. If you roleplay as an orthodox Marxist (or even a Trotskyist or Titoist), I think we'd be cool.

[Heraklea-]

Alright, so, how about:

-The Worker's Party recognizes the intrinsic value of all living beings, and is dedicated to preserving the pristine wilderness from human exploitation. For areas on the land that are especially valuable, however, the Worker's Party is for conserving and sustainably managing resources so that it benefits all of Placeholderstanis.

I thin I'd prefer something more along the lines of:

The Worker's Alliance recognizes the intrinsic value of all living being and is dedicated to preserving the natural world. When there is need for the use of natural resources, the Worker's Alliance is committed to conservation and sustainable management such that it benefits all Placeholderstanis.

[Dejanic]

Will of joinings.

I hate to be "that guy", but I think most people here agreed this isn't open to Vanguardist Communists. If you roleplay as an orthodox Marxist (or even a Trotskyist or Titoist), I think we'd be cool.

Trots and Titoists are both Vanguardists, just sayin.

[The New Sea Territory]

I hate to be "that guy", but I think most people here agreed this isn't open to Vanguardist Communists. If you roleplay as an orthodox Marxist (or even a Trotskyist or Titoist), I think we'd be cool.

Trots and Titoists are both Vanguardists, just sayin.

Yeah, I know, but they're a bit more liberal than Maoists, Castroists or Leninists.