NSG Senate General Discussion Thread (Former Lobby)

[Arkolon]

How rich are you supposed to be again, by the way?

Roughly 1.647 million minus taxes as per 2013 fiscal year.

I am head of the Barzvirgis Group Industries which controls a significant amount of per present time the sectors of :

Defense and Arms Manufacturing
Sex trade
Shipbuilding&Shipping
Telecommunication&Internet Provider
Private Military Contractors

Wait, what is the total value of Barzivirgis Group Industries?

[CTALNH]

The problem is that removing clause 35 would leave a huge gap wide open just for exploit by RPers, namely CTALNH and Dragomere. Otherwise, I can just say that Mr. Kozlov owns a huge business himself, and that any attempts to stop him from achieving his goals, whatever they may be, would be countered with "oh, you can't do that; you see, I'm made of money, and my helicopter-equipped team of security guards will prevent you from voting against whatever I want to do.". It's just a measure of precaution. Small business-owners-- ach, that's just collateral. Small sacrifice in comparison to the good that comes out of keeping clause 35.

From an OOC perspective, your objections are valid, and that is why we have the admins, who warn/ban people who do that.

From an IC perspective, you just wrote off every single businessman or woman -- or, if I want to extend the definition to the full extent, every single person who holds a title (and thus an office) that pays them. Which bans a huge portion of the population from ever serving in the Seima.

Except hobos.

[Unicario]

The problem is that removing clause 35 would leave a huge gap wide open just for exploit by RPers, namely CTALNH and Dragomere. Otherwise, I can just say that Mr. Kozlov owns a huge business himself, and that any attempts to stop him from achieving his goals, whatever they may be, would be countered with "oh, you can't do that; you see, I'm made of money, and my helicopter-equipped team of security guards will prevent you from voting against whatever I want to do.". It's just a measure of precaution. Small business-owners-- ach, that's just collateral. Small sacrifice in comparison to the good that comes out of keeping clause 35.

From an OOC perspective, your objections are valid, and that is why we have the admins, who warn/ban people who do that.

From an IC perspective, you just wrote off every single businessman or woman -- or, if I want to extend the definition to the full extent, every single person who holds a title (and thus an office) that pays them. Which bans a huge portion of the population from ever serving in the Seima.

Exactly, if someone tries to crony/bully someone into voting a certain way, they have no obligation to do so since it's imaginary country, and the admins can easily beat the shit out of the person who's doing it.

[CTALNH]

Roughly 1.647 million minus taxes as per 2013 fiscal year.

I am head of the Barzvirgis Group Industries which controls a significant amount of per present time the sectors of :

Defense and Arms Manufacturing
Sex trade
Shipbuilding&Shipping
Telecommunication&Internet Provider
Private Military Contractors

Wait, what is the total value of Barzivirgis Group Industries?

In all the actually I have only estimated the PMC company asset value which comes ate a total of 402 million.

Operating costs come in about 424.29$ million and profits to 1.047$ billion

[Arkolon]

The problem is that removing clause 35 would leave a huge gap wide open just for exploit by RPers, namely CTALNH and Dragomere. Otherwise, I can just say that Mr. Kozlov owns a huge business himself, and that any attempts to stop him from achieving his goals, whatever they may be, would be countered with "oh, you can't do that; you see, I'm made of money, and my helicopter-equipped team of security guards will prevent you from voting against whatever I want to do.". It's just a measure of precaution. Small business-owners-- ach, that's just collateral. Small sacrifice in comparison to the good that comes out of keeping clause 35.

From an OOC perspective, your objections are valid, and that is why we have the admins, who warn/ban people who do that.

From an IC perspective, you just wrote off every single businessman or woman -- or, if I want to extend the definition to the full extent, every single person who holds a title (and thus an office) that pays them. Which bans a huge portion of the population from ever serving in the Seima.

Clause 35 doesn't prevent business-owners from joining the Seima for all eternity. If you wish to change from small-business owner to politician, you just give your company to a relative, or sell it off. The same way having an extrapolitical job should be left if you want to become a politician.

[CTALNH]

From an OOC perspective, your objections are valid, and that is why we have the admins, who warn/ban people who do that.

From an IC perspective, you just wrote off every single businessman or woman -- or, if I want to extend the definition to the full extent, every single person who holds a title (and thus an office) that pays them. Which bans a huge portion of the population from ever serving in the Seima.

Clause 35 doesn't prevent business-owners from joining the Seima for all eternity. If you wish to change from small-business owner to politician, you just give your company to a relative, or sell it off. The same way having an extrapolitical job should be left if you want to become a politician.

And thats is the stupidest most needless way to make someone not want to represent their community.

[Mishmahig]

From an OOC perspective, your objections are valid, and that is why we have the admins, who warn/ban people who do that.

From an IC perspective, you just wrote off every single businessman or woman -- or, if I want to extend the definition to the full extent, every single person who holds a title (and thus an office) that pays them. Which bans a huge portion of the population from ever serving in the Seima.

Clause 35 doesn't prevent business-owners from joining the Seima for all eternity. If you wish to change from small-business owner to politician, you just give your company to a relative, or sell it off. The same way having an extrapolitical job should be left if you want to become a politician.

It's an unreasonable burden on the lower and middle classes, for the sake of preventing a few rich people from entering the Seima -- rich people who could probably find loopholes that they could exploit, while the average citizen is unable to do so.

[Glasgia]

Wait, what is the total value of Barzivirgis Group Industries?

In all the actually I have only estimated the PMC company asset value which comes ate a total of 402 million.

Operating costs come in about 424.29$ million and profits to 1.047$ billion

Hmmm.... That would be quite reasonable actually, and I think your own income is still so, if not for how small our nation is. But I don't know, anyone have any idea how much of the market he'd need to operate to make that kinda money?

[Malgrave]

Due to CTALNH's extremist beliefs I doubt that he will be a successful businessperson. I don't think people would contract a PMC with links to anti-semtism.

[CTALNH]

Clause 35 doesn't prevent business-owners from joining the Seima for all eternity. If you wish to change from small-business owner to politician, you just give your company to a relative, or sell it off. The same way having an extrapolitical job should be left if you want to become a politician.

It's an unreasonable burden on the lower and middle classes, for the sake of preventing a few rich people from entering the Seima -- rich people who could probably find loopholes that they could exploit, while the average citizen is unable to do so.

I don't think Arkolon knows how costly it is to transfer a business to a relative. And doesn't understand how stupid it is to abandon ones business.

[CTALNH]

Due to CTALNH's extremist beliefs I doubt that he will be a successful businessperson. I don't think people would contract a PMC with links to anti-semtism.

Blackwater is doing fine.As are most Russian PMCs.

[Arkolon]

Wait, what is the total value of Barzivirgis Group Industries?

In all the actually I have only estimated the PMC company asset value which comes ate a total of 402 million.

Operating costs come in about 424.29$ million and profits to 1.047$ billion

So your company makes profits equivalent to 4% of GDP in a single year? I mean, isn't that a little bit excessive? The average wage is at $14,000. With your bloated 1.7mn/year salary, you're essentially making 50 times what the average person in the top 10% of Baltonia makes.

[CTALNH]

In all the actually I have only estimated the PMC company asset value which comes ate a total of 402 million.

Operating costs come in about 424.29$ million and profits to 1.047$ billion

Hmmm.... That would be quite reasonable actually, and I think your own income is still so, if not for how small our nation is. But I don't know, anyone have any idea how much of the market he'd need to operate to make that kinda money?

I took most of my data from Russian PMCs working in the middle east and Africa.

[Great Nepal]

It's an unreasonable burden on the lower and middle classes, for the sake of preventing a few rich people from entering the Seima -- rich people who could probably find loopholes that they could exploit, while the average citizen is unable to do so.

No, it is not unreasonable at all. If you want to be in the parliament, then you can not hold another position which will cause conflict of interest. A small/ medium business owner can quite easily put one of their relative as the owner for duration where s/he is in parliament. This wont be the case for owners of fortune 500 companies.

And thats is the stupidest most needless way to make someone not want to represent their community.

Their country or their business?
Again, how can a fortune 500 owner be objective when voting for business tax rate.

[CTALNH]

In all the actually I have only estimated the PMC company asset value which comes ate a total of 402 million.

Operating costs come in about 424.29$ million and profits to 1.047$ billion

So your company makes profits equivalent to 4% of GDP in a single year? I mean, isn't that a little bit excessive? The average wage is at $14,000. With your bloated 1.7mn/year salary, you're essentially making 50 times what the average person in the top 10% of Baltonia makes.

And also paying you people vast sums of money?

I do not understand the problem.

[Arkolon]

It's an unreasonable burden on the lower and middle classes, for the sake of preventing a few rich people from entering the Seima -- rich people who could probably find loopholes that they could exploit, while the average citizen is unable to do so.

I don't think Arkolon knows how costly it is to transfer a business to a relative. And doesn't understand how stupid it is to abandon ones business.

How badly do you want to be an MP?

[CTALNH]

It's an unreasonable burden on the lower and middle classes, for the sake of preventing a few rich people from entering the Seima -- rich people who could probably find loopholes that they could exploit, while the average citizen is unable to do so.

No, it is not unreasonable at all. If you want to be in the parliament, then you can not hold another position which will cause conflict of interest. A small/ medium business owner can quite easily put one of their relative as the owner for duration where s/he is in parliament. This wont be the case for owners of fortune 500 companies.

And thats is the stupidest most needless way to make someone not want to represent their community.

Their country or their business?
Again, how can a fortune 500 owner be objective when voting for business tax rate.

Because said business owner is a strasserist and a former high echelon of the former pro Russian government.

[Mishmahig]

It's an unreasonable burden on the lower and middle classes, for the sake of preventing a few rich people from entering the Seima -- rich people who could probably find loopholes that they could exploit, while the average citizen is unable to do so.

No, it is not unreasonable at all. If you want to be in the parliament, then you can not hold another position which will cause conflict of interest. A small/ medium business owner can quite easily put one of their relative as the owner for duration where s/he is in parliament. This wont be the case for owners of fortune 500 companies

And if the person in question has no relatives?

[CTALNH]

I don't think Arkolon knows how costly it is to transfer a business to a relative. And doesn't understand how stupid it is to abandon ones business.

How badly do you want to be an MP?

Whats and MP?

[Arkolon]

How badly do you want to be an MP?

Whats and MP?

Member of Parliament.

How badly do you want to be a politician?

[CTALNH]

Whats and MP?

Member of Parliament.

How badly do you want to be a politician?

I was a former high echelon of the former government and my wife was shot dead by a Kalengian seeking vengeance?

[Arkolon]

Member of Parliament.

How badly do you want to be a politician?

I was a former high echelon of the former government and my wife was shot dead by a Kalengian seeking vengeance?

What are you talking about? My message was in relation to leaving your position of profit for an office in government. What's more important to you, your business or your constituency? Your history is irrelevant here.

[Malgrave]

No, it is not unreasonable at all. If you want to be in the parliament, then you can not hold another position which will cause conflict of interest. A small/ medium business owner can quite easily put one of their relative as the owner for duration where s/he is in parliament. This wont be the case for owners of fortune 500 companies

And if the person in question has no relatives?

We had conflict of interest legislation in Aurentina that did not prevent politicians from owning business. Why can't we adopt a similar stance in Baltonia? I also think that starting off with such restrictions is rather silly when you consider that no other country in the region has similar restrictions in place.

[Strykla]

I have to support Clause 35. It's a Progressive Age idea, no doubt about it; as I see it, the idea behind Clause 35 is to stop Gilded Age-type politics, were you have a couple hundred or even dozen immensely rich people who use their wealth to shift the nation's government, and there's not a thing the average person can do. Now, not all 1%ers are terrible people; even out of the Gilded Age, Andrew Carnegie was a very community-minded person. However, no one can say that it is a good idea to get rid of Clause 35, because that would only lead to Gilded Age politics.

[CTALNH]

I was a former high echelon of the former government and my wife was shot dead by a Kalengian seeking vengeance?

What are you talking about? My message was in relation to leaving your position of profit for an office in government. What's more important to you, your business or your constituency? Your history is irrelevant here.

My russian brothers but I am also I am not stupid enough to be broke after I stop being a politician.