NSG Senate General Discussion Thread (Former Lobby)

[The Liberated Territories]

Stop taking these things so personally.

You're a bully. I hope you realize that.

Shit just hit the fan!

[Arglorand]

Stop taking these things so personally.

You're a bully. I hope you realize that.

What.

[The Nihilistic view]

You're a bully. I hope you realize that.

Shit just hit the fan!

Fling it now!!

[The Nihilistic view]

Districts don't require subjectively estimating how well a campaign went. The district system is cut and dry for calculations, but forces actual, targeted campaigning strategies in order to win a successful election. In Aurentina, the relevant part of its first proposal read:

An electoral system is established.
13 Districts shall exist.
A District is defined as a collection of Constituencies.
Each District shall have 37 Constituencies.
Every Senator must represent a Constituency.

Senators shall vote as defined by the Presidential Election Procedures Act.
Votes shall be tallied for each District individually.
Senator votes within Districts will be counted equivalently to other Senator votes within the same District and within other Districts.
The District votes are counted as would be individual votes. A simple majority of District votes determines the winner of a vote.

District votes will be counted equivalently to other District votes.
If an entire District fails to vote, that District shall be presumed to Abstain.

Districts will be redrawn every four months.

Then, there was no outstanding IC reason to institute the system. Now, in our search for better management of elections, it presents an alternative to tedious spreadsheet juggling.

This is clearly more complicated, both from management and end user point of view. In your proposal, a player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.
While person managing votes needs to know:
1. Which district a player is from.
2. How to redraw the district lines.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

On the other hand, election and weighted vote system is immeasurably simpler from end user point of view and simpler from management point of view. End user needs to know:
1. How much is one vote of their party equivalent to - number posted in front page of every senate and signature of admin account.
Party leaders need to know:
1. How many members are their in their party.
2. How much of campaigning budget they have and from what source.
Management needs to know:
1. Is the source and budget reasonable.
2. Which party does the voter belong to.

And creates the situation where the candidate with the least votes can win.

To be honest i'm not even sure why NWO has brought it up again, in Aurentina it could not even gain 5 sponsers to be added to the chamber. Nobody wants the shitty system.

[Finium]

*walks in*

*reads last page*

*walks out*

[Jetan]

Stop taking these things so personally.

You're a bully. I hope you realize that.

You're behaving ridicilously. I hope you realize that.

*walks in*

*reads last page*

*walks out*

It'll be easier if you embrace it.

[Arglorand]

*walks in*

*reads last page*

*walks out*

It'll be easier if you embrace it.

Think of it as being sucked into a black hole. It's less painful if you give in.

... I think.

[Belmaria]

You're a bully. I hope you realize that.

You're behaving ridicilously. I hope you realize that.

*walks in*

*reads last page*

*walks out*

It'll be easier if you embrace it.

And you. I don't know what your problem is, but judging by your reactions to my posts over the past few days, you seem to have some sort of a grudge against me. I'm not aware of ever doing anything to you. So enough already. Drop it.

[Fortschritte]

Will there be any room for new members in the Senate?

[Ainin]

Will there be any room for new members in the Senate?

Yes there will!

[Fortschritte]

Will there be any room for new members in the Senate?

Yes there will!

Alright, great! Hopefully I can join/get involved in a centre left party. I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and presume that you'll probably create one, given your past history in the senate.

[Jetan]

You're behaving ridicilously. I hope you realize that.


It'll be easier if you embrace it.

And you. I don't know what your problem is, but judging by your reactions to my posts over the past few days, you seem to have some sort of a grudge against me. I'm not aware of ever doing anything to you. So enough already. Drop it.

I tell it how it is - and have since Aurentina. That has nothing to do with you personally. Ask CTALNH if you don't believe me.

[The New World Oceania]

Districts don't require subjectively estimating how well a campaign went. The district system is cut and dry for calculations, but forces actual, targeted campaigning strategies in order to win a successful election. In Aurentina, the relevant part of its first proposal read:

An electoral system is established.
13 Districts shall exist.
A District is defined as a collection of Constituencies.
Each District shall have 37 Constituencies.
Every Senator must represent a Constituency.

Senators shall vote as defined by the Presidential Election Procedures Act.
Votes shall be tallied for each District individually.
Senator votes within Districts will be counted equivalently to other Senator votes within the same District and within other Districts.
The District votes are counted as would be individual votes. A simple majority of District votes determines the winner of a vote.

District votes will be counted equivalently to other District votes.
If an entire District fails to vote, that District shall be presumed to Abstain.

Districts will be redrawn every four months.

Then, there was no outstanding IC reason to institute the system. Now, in our search for better management of elections, it presents an alternative to tedious spreadsheet juggling.

This is clearly more complicated, both from management and end user point of view. In your proposal, a player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.
While person managing votes needs to know:
1. Which district a player is from.
2. How to redraw the district lines.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

On the other hand, election and weighted vote system is immeasurably simpler from end user point of view and simpler from management point of view. End user needs to know:
1. How much is one vote of their party equivalent to - number posted in front page of every senate and signature of admin account.
Party leaders need to know:
1. How many members are their in their party.
2. How much of campaigning budget they have and from what source.
Management needs to know:
1. Is the source and budget reasonable.
2. Which party does the voter belong to.

Properly, that will read:
A player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.

Regarding management knowledge:
1. Which district a player is from — coincides with the one thing a player needs to know. People knew their constituencies and even if they only knew their constituency, the Admins would know which district said constituency belonged to.
2. How to redraw the district lines — can be decided ICly.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

To be honest i'm not even sure why NWO has brought it up again, in Aurentina it could not even gain 5 sponsers to be added to the chamber. Nobody wants the shitty system.

And nobody wants the shitty commentary but here you are.

[The Nihilistic view]

This is clearly more complicated, both from management and end user point of view. In your proposal, a player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.
While person managing votes needs to know:
1. Which district a player is from.
2. How to redraw the district lines.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

On the other hand, election and weighted vote system is immeasurably simpler from end user point of view and simpler from management point of view. End user needs to know:
1. How much is one vote of their party equivalent to - number posted in front page of every senate and signature of admin account.
Party leaders need to know:
1. How many members are their in their party.
2. How much of campaigning budget they have and from what source.
Management needs to know:
1. Is the source and budget reasonable.
2. Which party does the voter belong to.

Properly, that will read:
A player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.

Regarding management knowledge:
1. Which district a player is from — coincides with the one thing a player needs to know. People knew their constituencies and even if they only knew their constituency, the Admins would know which district said constituency belonged to.
2. How to redraw the district lines — can be decided ICly.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

To be honest i'm not even sure why NWO has brought it up again, in Aurentina it could not even gain 5 sponsers to be added to the chamber. Nobody wants the shitty system.

And nobody wants the shitty commentary but here you are.

It would not be shitty if your system was not the topic.

[Great Nepal]

Properly, that will read:
A player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.

Of course they need to know that. You are seriously expecting players to vote without having any idea about how their vote is being used and counted? For this to be properly used, player needs to know how their district mates are voting so that they can make deals for their district mates to abstain/ change votes, plan voting patterns etc.

[strike]
4. How many of their district mates voted.

Again, you seriously expect player to be satisfied with "Oh we know 55 people voted for bill against 30 but bill failed to pass because against votes were distributed in more districts".

Regarding management knowledge:
1. Which district a player is from — coincides with the one thing a player needs to know. People knew their constituencies and even if they only knew their constituency, the Admins would know which district said constituency belonged to.

Which needs to be manually updated every 4 months. With election system, once you have a formula in place all you do is rerun it and we have updated results.

2. How to redraw the district lines — can be decided ICly.

Still need to know and again manually update all those constituencies.

3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

How else do you purpose they calculate how a district voted?

Oh and what happens if we run out of constituencies?

[Arglorand]

To be honest i'm not even sure why NWO has brought it up again, in Aurentina it could not even gain 5 sponsers to be added to the chamber. Nobody wants the shitty system.

And nobody wants the shitty commentary but here you are.

I hate to be the "let's not argue" guy, but let's not argue until we get an actual reason to argue.

[Belmaria]

This is clearly more complicated, both from management and end user point of view. In your proposal, a player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.
While person managing votes needs to know:
1. Which district a player is from.
2. How to redraw the district lines.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

On the other hand, election and weighted vote system is immeasurably simpler from end user point of view and simpler from management point of view. End user needs to know:
1. How much is one vote of their party equivalent to - number posted in front page of every senate and signature of admin account.
Party leaders need to know:
1. How many members are their in their party.
2. How much of campaigning budget they have and from what source.
Management needs to know:
1. Is the source and budget reasonable.
2. Which party does the voter belong to.

Properly, that will read:
A player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.
4. How many of their district mates voted.

Regarding management knowledge:
1. Which district a player is from — coincides with the one thing a player needs to know. People knew their constituencies and even if they only knew their constituency, the Admins would know which district said constituency belonged to.
2. How to redraw the district lines — can be decided ICly.
3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

To be honest i'm not even sure why NWO has brought it up again, in Aurentina it could not even gain 5 sponsers to be added to the chamber. Nobody wants the shitty system.

And nobody wants the shitty commentary but here you are.

Seriously you two? Seriously? Why can't we just treat each other nicely? Can we not try that, for once?

[Beta Test]

Yes, can we all just get along?

[Gothmogs]

Am I going to have to create the happy friendship organisation thingy again?

[The New World Oceania]

Properly, that will read:
A player needs to know:
1. Which district they belong to.
2. Who are their district mates.
3. How have their district mates voted.

Of course they need to know that. You are seriously expecting players to vote without having any idea about how their vote is being used and counted? For this to be properly used, player needs to know how their district mates are voting so that they can make deals for their district mates to abstain/ change votes, plan voting patterns etc.

Information on which constituencies are in which district are public.

[strike]
4. How many of their district mates voted.

Again, you seriously expect player to be satisfied with "Oh we know 55 people voted for bill against 30 but bill failed to pass because against votes were distributed in more districts".

People who don't vote aren't counted in the citing of their district's vote. If we wouldn't count it in an at-large election, it wouldn't be counted in the district majority.

Regarding management knowledge:
1. Which district a player is from — coincides with the one thing a player needs to know. People knew their constituencies and even if they only knew their constituency, the Admins would know which district said constituency belonged to.

Which needs to be manually updated every 4 months. With election system, once you have a formula in place all you do is rerun it and we have updated results.

2. How to redraw the district lines — can be decided ICly.

Still need to know and again manually update all those constituencies.

Random number generator is a likely option.

3. How many votes have been cast from the district.

How else do you purpose they calculate how a district voted?

Oh and what happens if we run out of constituencies?[/quote]

A vote reads:

I vote Boris Johnson for Glorious Adviser.
Constituency 92/District 2

Have you considered making more constituencies

[Corbins]

I'm back

[New Bierstaat]

Am I missing something here? Multi-member districts? What happened to everyone having his own district? MMDs will make drawing a map into pure hell.

[The New World Oceania]

Am I missing something here? Multi-member districts? What happened to everyone having his own district? MMDs will make drawing a map into pure hell.

Each member has their own constituency, as has always been the case. Districts will contain multiple constituencies.

[Corbins]

What'd I miss?

[New Bierstaat]

Am I missing something here? Multi-member districts? What happened to everyone having his own district? MMDs will make drawing a map into pure hell.

Each member has their own constituency, as has always been the case. Districts will contain multiple constituencies.

So how does that work? Is it like the US House where every member has a distinct area he/she represents or like the US Senate where there are two members for each state?

I do not support the latter; it will cause unnecessary difficulties in drawing the map and won't really enhance the RP at all as far as I can see. Plus, members always seemed to like having a small piece of land in Aurentina that was theirs and marked in their color on the map. That would be lost in a multi-member district.