NSG Senate General Discussion Thread (Former Lobby)

[Neragua]

The Drunken Ushanka now has a cigarette vending machine!

No thanks. I quit. Those machines are bad for you.

...

[New Zepuha]

The Drunken Ushanka now has a cigarette vending machine!

No thanks. I quit. Those machines are bad for you.

...

Pfft a myth like second hand smoke

[Gothmogs]

No thanks. I quit. Those machines are bad for you.

...

Pfft a myth like second hand smoke

The last guy I remember saying that in the senate was dos'd...

[New Zepuha]

Pfft a myth like second hand smoke

The last guy I remember saying that in the senate was dos'd...

wut

[Malgrave]

The last guy I remember saying that in the senate was dos'd...

wut

[Gothmogs]

The last guy I remember saying that in the senate was dos'd...

wut

The Zeonic States didn't believe in second hand smoke. That's not why he was deleted though I was just pointing it out.

(We're allowed to mention his name right )

[Arkolon]

wut

The Zeonic States didn't believe in second hand smoke. That's not why he was deleted though I was just pointing it out.

(We're allowed to mention his name right )

... What did he do wrong? I wasn't there, for the record.

[Ainin]

The Zeonic States didn't believe in second hand smoke. That's not why he was deleted though I was just pointing it out.

(We're allowed to mention his name right )

... What did he do wrong? I wasn't there, for the record.

He admitted to being a paedophile. More information here.

We tend to not talk about him.

[Gothmogs]

The Zeonic States didn't believe in second hand smoke. That's not why he was deleted though I was just pointing it out.

(We're allowed to mention his name right )

... What did he do wrong? I wasn't there, for the record.

Well he sparked an entire debate on whether the mods were doing their job right and people were getting all upset and saying mods should be replaced and all that schist. I don't know if I'm allowed to say what he did specifically but he wasn't following the terms of use basically...If you want to know more you should ask other people...

EDIT: Ninja'd by a real Asian

[Arkolon]

... What did he do wrong? I wasn't there, for the record.

He admitted to being a paedophile. More information here.

We tend to not talk about him.

Thanks. I think that's enough on that front.

[Neragua]

Moving swiftly on...

Does the lobby have popcorn? I could really go for some popcorn right now.

[Gothmogs]

Moving swiftly on...

Does the lobby have popcorn? I could really go for some popcorn right now.

You can probably get some at Kalengija Forever.

[Neragua]

Moving swiftly on...

Does the lobby have popcorn? I could really go for some popcorn right now.

You can probably get some at Kalengija Forever.

Brilliant!

*Exists*

[The Nihilistic view]

If proxy voting is still a thing, then I, Petras Freijs (Tsuken), allow Great Nepal to vote for me in any upcoming elections and on any upcoming legislation until June 22, 2014.

Well there are no laws on it now so any clear form of designating somebody ones proxy is legal now. Nobody has to use the Aurentine IC bill format. Though I don't suppose it will be long before an autocratic statist presents a bill for Kalengia.

[The New World Oceania]

I was planning on making an organization but have momentarily decided there's a bit too much work to look forward to. So, if anyone would like to use (or critique) the platform/thread I'd written before giving up, go ahead.

Code: Select all

[i][b][align=center]The Idealists[/align][/b][/i]

[quote][i]Just as turbulence is an inevitable consequence of the laws of fluid dynamics, the existence of such societies is an inevitable consequence of the laws governing human nature.[/i][/quote]

[align=center]image[/align]

[align=center][blocktext][box][url][color=#a90000]Who We Are[/color][/url] | [url][color=#a90000]Platform[/color][/url] | [url][color=#a90000]Membership[/color][/url][/box][/blocktext][/align]

[align=center][b][i]Who Are The Idealists?[/i][/b][/align]
The Idealists, as the name implies, is a Baltonian Society seeking to make this country ideal. We intend to accomplish this by strict adherence to our broad platform. Membership is easy: no application is involved. It's suggested you read our platform to understand our intentions.

We are founded on the principles of liberty, high living quality, safety, and progression. Our other official names include Progressive Libertarians, Forwardists, and Masochists; the preferred term is Idealists.

We [u]are not[/u] a political party. In fact, The Idealists oppose political parties as we believe them to restrict individual liberties. The Idealists is a society, which grants members more freedoms as a result of being a part of us. However, Idealists [i]can[/i] hold membership in parties in addition to being part of our society.

[align=center][b][i]Platform[/i][/b][/align]
Our platform attempts to include everything necessary for an ideal Baltonia. It is suggested you read it in entirety, but the table of contents will allow you to navigate to what you find important. See our Articles of Idealism for a short manifesto.

[align=center][blocktext][box][url][color=#a90000]Idealism[/color][/url] | [url][color=#a90000]Platform[/color][/url] | [url][color=#a90000]Membership[/color][/url][/box][/blocktext][/align]

[align=center][b][u]Idealism[/u][/b][/align]The most important definition here is of idealism. [u]Many view idealism as an unattainable utopia, but The Idealists intend to make it reality.[/u] This will involve a synthesis of what makes life ideal and a new combination of ideologies to make a perfect Baltonia.

•[b]An ideal life is free.[/b] This means an individual will be free from not only government, but also corporations, other individuals, and themselves. A government has to know when to step in and when to step out. Keep in mind that a "government" is a group deciding to aid a society by guiding it: there is no such thing as anarchy because a government will inevitably arise. We need to make the best of this inevitability.

•[b]An ideal life is wealthy.[/b] The State must charge its citizens as little as possible while providing as much as it can. We need to minimize our income while maximizing our output. We take a Trotskyist perspective on the role of government as a business. We also believe economic freedom satisfies both the requirement of liberty and of wealth. By recognizing economics is controlled by human hands, we can incite its positive aspects and mitigate its harmful forces.

•[b]An ideal life is responsible.[/b] The government has two duties in the best nation: provide and protect. An ideal State provides its people with high standards of living and protects they're freedom and safety. The former is yielded: it exists only when the means of production are purposefully shared. The latter are natural: they only cease to exist per aggression.

•[b]An ideal life is healthy.[/b] An individual has the right to be healthy in an ideal world. Their government should assure this is possible.

•[b]An ideal life is safe.[/b] An individual has the right to be and keep their property safe in an ideal world. Their government should assure this, too, is possible.

•[b]An ideal life is objective.[/b] Disagreement is poisonous to idealism. Indubitable truth is imperative. If a government does not allow or protect this it must be eliminated. If an individual or business attempts to motivate implicitly malicious knowledge, it is safe to assume they are a threat to stability if they have no objective purpose to target the foundations of epistemology. Lackluster unity is [u]proven[/u] to cause widespread torment and death.

[align=center][u][b]Economics[/b][/u][/align]The ideal society allows total economic mobility. Thus, minimal restriction must occur. The minimum restriction necessary is that allowing individuals to remain equal to each other in this mobility, so individuals must be restricted from harming another's access to economic freedom. A strong economy is entitled to those causing it and those they choose the serve. On these basis is the ideal economy set.

[b]Economic Freedom[/b]
For practical idealist purposes, we can agree that economic freedom requires law. In the ideal society, an unconventional minarchist approach is necessary. The State will provide and protect. An ideal individual will be able to function with complete economic flexibility, so long as they do not violate another's [u]right or ability[/u] to function in the same manner.
•[b]Private Property[/b] — an entity has the right to own property. In the ideal society, their property will be protected from crime and they will fear no repercussions for possessing this property. Government will only intervene in the ownership of property when one's rights are threatened or violated. Any entity [i]except[/i] for a government as a whole may concern themselves with the use of property, be it consumption or production, unless rights are violated. Means of production are not viable private property. Means of production must be shared in the ideal society, but economic freedom will not be restricted by this.
•[b]Freedom of Contract[/b] — an individual can make an agreement without repercussion or restriction on behalf of a public external party so long as said agreement is not liable to threaten or violate one's rights, unless it is explicit in the agreement that one party will be harmed and that all involved parties are fully aware of this, in addition to aware of all other involved parties except in the case of the preceding clause. Any other condition of a contract is a violation of rights and should be regarded with eliminations whereas it threatens the ideal society. We are mostly in agreement with the philosophy of Robert Nozick on the matter, though we believe that such a freedom would exist in the ideal Marxist state, also. We recognize that the ideal Marxist state is an impractical ideal state, and our ideal economic platform seeks practical idealism.
•[b]Freedom from Exploitation[/b] — imperatively considered with the aforementioned freedoms of association and contracts, the State must affirm that no individual is coerced into exploitation. Therefore, as stated, economic forces must be grasped to stagnate consequences and motivate all positive effects. In the ideal society, exploitation is not seen only as immoral, but as ineffective.

[b]Taxation[/b]
Taxation does not exist in the ideal society. This occurs by the cessation of the effects of currency external to the ideal state. Therefore, a World State must be formed to void the necessity of money for the government. The government does not therefore, subsidize businesses. Rather, it functions as a non-monetary organization whose return is maintenance of the ideal society.

[b]Wages and Class[/b]
Class structures effectively cease to exist upon formation of the Huxleyan World State. The government should not invoke any economic division of classes by affecting or distributing resources and the means of production.

[b]Subsidies and Nationalization[/b]
The State owns nothing. The State shares the means of production with every other individual in the ideal world.

The Idealists

Just as turbulence is an inevitable consequence of the laws of fluid dynamics, the existence of such societies is an inevitable consequence of the laws governing human nature.

image

[url]Who We Are[/url] | [url]Platform[/url] | [url]Membership[/url]

Who Are The Idealists?

The Idealists, as the name implies, is a Baltonian Society seeking to make this country ideal. We intend to accomplish this by strict adherence to our broad platform. Membership is easy: no application is involved. It's suggested you read our platform to understand our intentions.

We are founded on the principles of liberty, high living quality, safety, and progression. Our other official names include Progressive Libertarians, Forwardists, and Masochists; the preferred term is Idealists.

We are not a political party. In fact, The Idealists oppose political parties as we believe them to restrict individual liberties. The Idealists is a society, which grants members more freedoms as a result of being a part of us. However, Idealists can hold membership in parties in addition to being part of our society.

Platform

Our platform attempts to include everything necessary for an ideal Baltonia. It is suggested you read it in entirety, but the table of contents will allow you to navigate to what you find important. See our Articles of Idealism for a short manifesto.

[url]Idealism[/url] | [url]Platform[/url] | [url]Membership[/url]

Idealism

The most important definition here is of idealism. Many view idealism as an unattainable utopia, but The Idealists intend to make it reality. This will involve a synthesis of what makes life ideal and a new combination of ideologies to make a perfect Baltonia.

•An ideal life is free. This means an individual will be free from not only government, but also corporations, other individuals, and themselves. A government has to know when to step in and when to step out. Keep in mind that a "government" is a group deciding to aid a society by guiding it: there is no such thing as anarchy because a government will inevitably arise. We need to make the best of this inevitability.

•An ideal life is wealthy. The State must charge its citizens as little as possible while providing as much as it can. We need to minimize our income while maximizing our output. We take a Trotskyist perspective on the role of government as a business. We also believe economic freedom satisfies both the requirement of liberty and of wealth. By recognizing economics is controlled by human hands, we can incite its positive aspects and mitigate its harmful forces.

•An ideal life is responsible. The government has two duties in the best nation: provide and protect. An ideal State provides its people with high standards of living and protects they're freedom and safety. The former is yielded: it exists only when the means of production are purposefully shared. The latter are natural: they only cease to exist per aggression.

•An ideal life is healthy. An individual has the right to be healthy in an ideal world. Their government should assure this is possible.

•An ideal life is safe. An individual has the right to be and keep their property safe in an ideal world. Their government should assure this, too, is possible.

•An ideal life is objective. Disagreement is poisonous to idealism. Indubitable truth is imperative. If a government does not allow or protect this it must be eliminated. If an individual or business attempts to motivate implicitly malicious knowledge, it is safe to assume they are a threat to stability if they have no objective purpose to target the foundations of epistemology. Lackluster unity is proven to cause widespread torment and death.

Economics

The ideal society allows total economic mobility. Thus, minimal restriction must occur. The minimum restriction necessary is that allowing individuals to remain equal to each other in this mobility, so individuals must be restricted from harming another's access to economic freedom. A strong economy is entitled to those causing it and those they choose the serve. On these basis is the ideal economy set.

Economic Freedom
For practical idealist purposes, we can agree that economic freedom requires law. In the ideal society, an unconventional minarchist approach is necessary. The State will provide and protect. An ideal individual will be able to function with complete economic flexibility, so long as they do not violate another's right or ability to function in the same manner.
•Private Property — an entity has the right to own property. In the ideal society, their property will be protected from crime and they will fear no repercussions for possessing this property. Government will only intervene in the ownership of property when one's rights are threatened or violated. Any entity except for a government as a whole may concern themselves with the use of property, be it consumption or production, unless rights are violated. Means of production are not viable private property. Means of production must be shared in the ideal society, but economic freedom will not be restricted by this.
•Freedom of Contract — an individual can make an agreement without repercussion or restriction on behalf of a public external party so long as said agreement is not liable to threaten or violate one's rights, unless it is explicit in the agreement that one party will be harmed and that all involved parties are fully aware of this, in addition to aware of all other involved parties except in the case of the preceding clause. Any other condition of a contract is a violation of rights and should be regarded with eliminations whereas it threatens the ideal society. We are mostly in agreement with the philosophy of Robert Nozick on the matter, though we believe that such a freedom would exist in the ideal Marxist state, also. We recognize that the ideal Marxist state is an impractical ideal state, and our ideal economic platform seeks practical idealism.
•Freedom from Exploitation — imperatively considered with the aforementioned freedoms of association and contracts, the State must affirm that no individual is coerced into exploitation. Therefore, as stated, economic forces must be grasped to stagnate consequences and motivate all positive effects. In the ideal society, exploitation is not seen only as immoral, but as ineffective.

Taxation
Taxation does not exist in the ideal society. This occurs by the cessation of the effects of currency external to the ideal state. Therefore, a World State must be formed to void the necessity of money for the government. The government does not therefore, subsidize businesses. Rather, it functions as a non-monetary organization whose return is maintenance of the ideal society.

Wages and Class
Class structures effectively cease to exist upon formation of the Huxleyan World State. The government should not invoke any economic division of classes by affecting or distributing resources and the means of production.

Subsidies and Nationalization
The State owns nothing. The State shares the means of production with every other individual in the ideal world.

You can see I got lazier at the end because I wrote progressively less.
If I were to finish and polish it, how much success do you think it would have, namely in terms of membership, if I devoted some time to it? (tldr it says baltonia should act like a world state but not form one and slam together an uncomfortable mix of socialism and minimal statism)

[Maklohi Vai]

What will happen if Yanalia and Beta are tied for second place at the end of the election first round?

Three way second round. I don't see a fairer option.

[Senyosu]

Small meta question for Ainin.

Are you a graphic designer by any chance?

[Costa Fierro]

Does this Godforsaken landfill of a country have a proper military?

[CTALNH]

Does this Godforsaken landfill of a country have a proper military?

A disorganized mess if former supporters of the old regime.

[Costa Fierro]

Does this Godforsaken landfill of a country have a proper military?

A disorganized mess if former supporters of the old regime.

Does it have equipment? Branches?

[The New World Oceania]

A disorganized mess if former supporters of the old regime.

Does it have equipment? Branches?

Of course it has branches! Baltonia has some of the best forests in the region.

[Glasgia]

A disorganized mess if former supporters of the old regime.

Does it have equipment? Branches?

Yes and yes. And CTALNH's only saying it's disorganised so he can justify a Russian insurgency, it appears largely agreed upon that the military would've helped a peaceful transition to democracy and be fairly organised - They've had twenty three years to get organised after Soviet rule.

[CTALNH]

Does it have equipment? Branches?

Yes and yes. And CTALNH's only saying it's disorganised so he can justify a Russian insurgency, it appears largely agreed upon that the military would've helped a peaceful transition to democracy and be fairly organised - They've had twenty three years to get organised after Soviet rule.

Wait did we transition to "democracy" in 1991 or 2014?

[Neragua]

What will happen if Yanalia and Beta are tied for second place at the end of the election first round?

Three way second round. I don't see a fairer option.

Makes sense, I guess. I'm assuming though the second round would be won with a simple plurality? I don't see a need for a third round.

[CTALNH]

Where is our official history?