NSG Senate Lobby: Four Scones and Seven Pastries Ago

[Beta Test]

Because he gave the anthrax to SJ, did he not?

WHAT?? Senator Machiavelli? How did you reach that conclusion?

WHAT? We're talking about him!? I thought we were talking about Kruger!?

No yeah I don't know anything about Dendart's situation...

[Mediciano]

WHAT?? Senator Machiavelli? How did you reach that conclusion?

It just occurred to me that you might not be aware that Kruger pled guilty. We're discussing Senator Machiavelli who's on trial for publishing a screencap sent to him by the Stormjagers in the Monarchist Journal.

[Beta Test]

WHAT?? Senator Machiavelli? How did you reach that conclusion?

It just occurred to me that you might not be aware that Kruger pled guilty. We're discussing Senator Machiavelli who's on trial for publishing a screencap sent to him by the Stormjagers in the Monarchist Journal.

Oh so why is that illegal then?

[Mediciano]

It just occurred to me that you might not be aware that Kruger pled guilty. We're discussing Senator Machiavelli who's on trial for publishing a screencap sent to him by the Stormjagers in the Monarchist Journal.

Oh so why is that illegal then?

Well, that's the question of the day, isn't it? Apparently it makes him an accessory to murder.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=286544&p=19718553#p19718553

[Mishmahig]

It just occurred to me that you might not be aware that Kruger pled guilty. We're discussing Senator Machiavelli who's on trial for publishing a screencap sent to him by the Stormjagers in the Monarchist Journal.

Oh so why is that illegal then?

That was my question as well.

[Glasgia]

Please read through. Kour explains everything perfectly.

Greenacre blinked, rubbing the bridge of his nose. "But, when I just asked you if there was anything you were unsure about you said didn't say..." he sighed, "Mr Charles Machiavelli you were arrested under suspicion of complicity in eight counts of Murder in the First Degree, that is breaches of Criminal Code section Echo One, and Suspicion of Concealment of eight counts of Murder in the First Degree, that is breaches of Criminal Code section Echo One." That done, he pulled out a print out of the offending material. "On Tuesday the fifteenth of April, the Monarchist Journal published this in accordance with the Kruger case. This is the exact information that the Aurentine Law Enforcement was in possession of, except for two points." A faint smile on his lips he pointed at the top (the title on the google chrome tab) which made it very clear that unlike the government's evidence, this was sourced directly from the terrorist organisation in question. "This shows that the Monarchist Journal got it from the terrorists. I do not care about that: all this proves is that it has validity. What I care about is the other point."

Gesturing to the section above the Kruger evidence, he read it out from memory. "'Very well, what is it. I can assure - or ensure - you remain anonymous'." Leaning close in to Mr Machiavelli, his expression suddenly became less humourous. "You sent a written assurance to the head of what is currently top of the list of 'people trying their hardest to murder hundreds of Aurentine citizens'. This document, this image of guilt, was taken on the fifteenth. One day and twenty hours before the time on the fifteenth that you received this, you assured one of Aurentina's most wanted men that you would keep his identity a secret. Shortly after that time, the terrorist group that this individual leads car bombed a peaceful protest against 'unfair taxation'. That killed three Gendarmes and five civilians, along with the deaths of twelve terrorists.

"You knew who was leading this group before the attack. You chose not to reveal their identity. You are responsible for the deaths of these eight people." Greenacre slid the pictures of two of the people onto the table. "You..." Another two, "...are..." Numbers five and six were set into place, "...Scum." And now the last two. "You killed these people just as assuredly as the person who built the bomb, do you have anything to say for yourself?"

[Beta Test]

Oh so why is that illegal then?

Well, that's the question of the day, isn't it? Apparently it makes him an accessory to murder.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=286544&p=19718553#p19718553

That's dumb. Aren't the press allowed to kept their sources anonymous?

[Mediciano]

Well, that's the question of the day, isn't it? Apparently it makes him an accessory to murder.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=286544&p=19718553#p19718553

That's dumb. Aren't the press allowed to kept their sources anonymous?

Apparently not. Even if he wasn't, he didn't keep the source anonymous, did he? He published the image with the Stormjager account name right there at the top of the page! Not to mention that Kruger, who by all counts is the 'leader' that Kour is referring to, was in custody at the time so couldn't have ordered the bombing.

[Beta Test]

That's dumb. Aren't the press allowed to kept their sources anonymous?

Apparently not. Even if he wasn't, he didn't keep the source anonymous, did he? He published the image with the Stormjager account name right there at the top of the page!

Well there we go! He helped the police then didn't he!? He's not guilty of shit!

[The Nihilistic view]

It just occurred to me that you might not be aware that Kruger pled guilty. We're discussing Senator Machiavelli who's on trial for publishing a screencap sent to him by the Stormjagers in the Monarchist Journal.

Oh so why is that illegal then?

That's the thing, dispite asking nobody can cite me the law that makes it illegal. The SJ are not an illegal organisation for a start so contact with a member and not reporting it is not a crime. Nor is not divulging ones source, nor is printing said correspondence especially as it was never originally marked top secret and the publishers of the article have not signed an official secrets act or the like in the first place.

[Beta Test]

Oh so why is that illegal then?

That's the thing, dispite asking nobody can cite me the law that makes it illegal. The SJ are not an illegal organisation for a start so contact with a member and not reporting it is not a crime. Nor is not divulging ones source, nor is printing said correspondence especially as it was never originally marked top secret and the publishers of the article have not signed an official secrets act or the like in the first place.

I was right, the conspiracy is real.

[Mediciano]

Apparently not. Even if he wasn't, he didn't keep the source anonymous, did he? He published the image with the Stormjager account name right there at the top of the page!

Well there we go! He helped the police then didn't he!? He's not guilty of shit!

Had he kept the source anonymous, there would've been nothing to charge him with! Clearly that promise "I assure you'll be anonymous" meant jack-shit, so how is he in any way supporting them? That's what I'm trying to get people to see, but no one will. It literally feels like I'm going insane trying to make people see logic!

[Kouralia]

Oh so why is that illegal then?

That was my question as well.

Let me try to translate this to a real life equivilent. Yes, a screencap of a TG is not enough evidence to charge somone on IRL, but this is trying to gather evidence on a competitive fictional RP where the Police would have to say 'excuse me, could you tell us what evidence we've found'. Responses to that question have varied from 'all the staff deleted the electronic records before escaping into the catacombs under Leishaagen' to 'there is nothing in the office' (it was later found that the latter criminal had literally taken all furniture from his office to avoid evidence being left behind, as in he'd stolen the potted plant and the shelves and the carpet etc.).

Thus, this evidence is the equivalent of The Times (owned by News UK) publishing a video on its websit (of incontrovertible veracity) of the head of Al Qaeda, wearing a mask and showing evidence to the camera to prove that his old partner in crime is guilty, then Rupert Murdoch walks past, says 'don't worry, your identity is safe with me' and walks off shot again.

[Mediciano]

That was my question as well.

Let me try to translate this to a real life equivilent. Yes, a screencap of a TG is not enough evidence to charge somone on IRL, but this is trying to gather evidence on a competitive fictional RP where the Police would have to say 'excuse me, could you tell us what evidence we've found'. Responses to that question have varied from 'all the staff deleted the electronic records before escaping into the catacombs under Leishaagen' to 'there is nothing in the office' (it was later found that the latter criminal had literally taken all furniture from his office to avoid evidence being left behind, as in he'd stolen the potted plant and the shelves and the carpet etc.).

Thus, this evidence is the equivalent of The Times (owned by News UK) publishing a video on its websit (of incontrovertible veracity) of the head of Al Qaeda, wearing a mask and showing evidence to the camera to prove that his old partner in crime is guilty, then Rupert Murdoch walks past, says 'don't worry, your identity is safe with me' and walks off shot again.

...before revealing the person's identity to the whole world in a published image...

[Mediciano]

"You sent a written assurance to the head of what is currently top of the list of 'people trying their hardest to murder hundreds of Aurentine citizens'.

And then promptly contradicted it that assurance by posting the article with all the information and the identity of the source in his newspaper for everyone (even the police) to see...

[Kouralia]

Let me try to translate this to a real life equivilent. Yes, a screencap of a TG is not enough evidence to charge somone on IRL, but this is trying to gather evidence on a competitive fictional RP where the Police would have to say 'excuse me, could you tell us what evidence we've found'. Responses to that question have varied from 'all the staff deleted the electronic records before escaping into the catacombs under Leishaagen' to 'there is nothing in the office' (it was later found that the latter criminal had literally taken all furniture from his office to avoid evidence being left behind, as in he'd stolen the potted plant and the shelves and the carpet etc.).

Thus, this evidence is the equivalent of The Times (owned by News UK) publishing a video on its websit (of incontrovertible veracity) of the head of Al Qaeda, wearing a mask and showing evidence to the camera to prove that his old partner in crime is guilty, then Rupert Murdoch walks past, says 'don't worry, your identity is safe with me' and walks off shot again.

...before revealing the person's identity to the whole world in a published image...

Where? Where is the IC identity of the head of the Stoermjaegeren (or whatever) revealed in the image? Unless you're saying I can put in a warrant for *stormjaeger leader* and that's ICly valid, I can then direct people to the location *stormjaeger leader's* house and arrest the character *stormjaeger leader* in the same manner I might say Senator *Nihil* when I can't remember a player's senator's IC name?

[The Nihilistic view]

Well there we go! He helped the police then didn't he!? He's not guilty of shit!

Had he kept the source anonymous, there would've been nothing to charge him with! Clearly that promise "I assure you'll be anonymous" meant jack-shit, so how is he in any way supporting them? That's what I'm trying to get people to see, but no one will. It literally feels like I'm going insane trying to make people see logic!

So if Kour is right and the entire shot is IC then he clearly printed the part where he pretended that he would keep the source anon. Or if only the TG is IC and the surround is OOC then (since you know account's are OOC not IC entities) it would represent meta-gaming by the law agencies involved. The whole case rests on "Your honour the Nationstates account Stoermjager send the defendant a TG on an online forum where people roleplay things."

[Mediciano]

...before revealing the person's identity to the whole world in a published image...

Where? Where is the IC identity of the head of the Stoermjaegeren (or whatever) revealed in the image? Unless you're saying I can put in a warrant for *stormjaeger leader* and that's ICly valid, I can then direct people to the location *stormjaeger leader's* house and arrest the character *stormjaeger leader* in the same manner I might say Senator *Nihil* when I can't remember a player's senator's IC name?

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED THE STORMJAGER ACCOUNT IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!! THEY'D LITERALLY BOTH BE ME! WHY THE ACTUAL FUCKITY FUCK WOULD I TELEGRAM MYSELF?

[Kouralia]

Where? Where is the IC identity of the head of the Stoermjaegeren (or whatever) revealed in the image? Unless you're saying I can put in a warrant for *stormjaeger leader* and that's ICly valid, I can then direct people to the location *stormjaeger leader's* house and arrest the character *stormjaeger leader* in the same manner I might say Senator *Nihil* when I can't remember a player's senator's IC name?

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED HIM IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!!

What the fuck are you on about?

Dendart has at no point revealed the ID of the head of the Stormjaegers. Instead he (presumably he, and not Dangelia) has revealed merely that he knows the identity of the head of the stormjaegers.

[Beta Test]

Where? Where is the IC identity of the head of the Stoermjaegeren (or whatever) revealed in the image? Unless you're saying I can put in a warrant for *stormjaeger leader* and that's ICly valid, I can then direct people to the location *stormjaeger leader's* house and arrest the character *stormjaeger leader* in the same manner I might say Senator *Nihil* when I can't remember a player's senator's IC name?

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED THE STORMJAGER ACCOUNT IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!! THEY'D LITERALLY BOTH BE ME! WHY THE ACTUAL FUCKITY FUCK WOULD I TELEGRAM MYSELF?

[Mediciano]

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED HIM IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!!

What the fuck are you on about?

Dendart has at no point revealed the ID of the head of the Stormjaegers. Instead he (presumably he, and not Dangelia) has revealed merely that he knows the identity of the head of the stormjaegers.

Where did you get the impression that the Head of the Stormjagers sent him that, or that Dendart knew his identity? Kruger, who's been convicted, was in custody at the time. Literally anyone in the Stormjager organization could have sent that... and knowing some underlings identity (as an anonymous source) wouldn't exactly be a state crime, would it?

[Lamaredia]

Where? Where is the IC identity of the head of the Stoermjaegeren (or whatever) revealed in the image? Unless you're saying I can put in a warrant for *stormjaeger leader* and that's ICly valid, I can then direct people to the location *stormjaeger leader's* house and arrest the character *stormjaeger leader* in the same manner I might say Senator *Nihil* when I can't remember a player's senator's IC name?

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED THE STORMJAGER ACCOUNT IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!! THEY'D LITERALLY BOTH BE ME! WHY THE ACTUAL FUCKITY FUCK WOULD I TELEGRAM MYSELF?

Whoa, calm down. No need to get angry.

[The Nihilistic view]

Where? Where is the IC identity of the head of the Stoermjaegeren (or whatever) revealed in the image? Unless you're saying I can put in a warrant for *stormjaeger leader* and that's ICly valid, I can then direct people to the location *stormjaeger leader's* house and arrest the character *stormjaeger leader* in the same manner I might say Senator *Nihil* when I can't remember a player's senator's IC name?

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED THE STORMJAGER ACCOUNT IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!! THEY'D LITERALLY BOTH BE ME! WHY THE ACTUAL FUCKITY FUCK WOULD I TELEGRAM MYSELF?

................. ...............

[Beta Test]

Wait... you're trying him because you think Kruger sent that TG? You think Kruger provided that screencap to him? That's why you're trying him? If Kruger and the Stormjager account were the same, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE MoD HAVE TELEGRAMMED THE STORMJAGER ACCOUNT IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE??!! THEY'D LITERALLY BOTH BE ME! WHY THE ACTUAL FUCKITY FUCK WOULD I TELEGRAM MYSELF?

................. ...............

[Phocidaea]

So who was the MoD who sold (gave?) the biological weapons? Embarrassingly, I'm not all caught up on the case.