NSG Senate Lobby: Four Scones and Seven Pastries Ago

[The Nihilistic view]

Good, I hoped I might have been wrong about that.

So you would all agree that the NIB did not arrest Kruger and had no warrant to do so?

The NIB did not arrest him, but when a warrant goes out it is sent to all law enforcement agencies, that is just standard practice. Securing Kruger was a combined opp and the first people on the scene arrested him.

[Ainin]

So you would all agree that the NIB did not arrest Kruger and had no warrant to do so?

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Even the Animal Protection Force could have arrested him.

[Mediciano]

My plane was searched without a warrant.

[Haelunor]

My plane was searched without a warrant.

Were you on the plane at the time?

[Mediciano]

My plane was searched without a warrant.

Were you on the plane at the time?

No. It was empty.

[Britanno]

No, not poor Tom. He shouldn't have helped plan major anthrax attacks and abused his position as President to aid terrorist organisations.

"Excuse me Prime Minister, but maybe you should consider the idea of innocent until proven guilty? There has been no guilty verdict in the courts, and I refuse to act on the word of the CPS."

[Britanno]

So why is Kruger doubted? He has done, quite literally, nothing to suggest he had any part on whatever baseless accusations people have come up with.

Mind quoting me where I said that I doubted Kurger's innocence?

Oh my god, if Belmaria was around now he'd be having such a fit.

[The Nihilistic view]

My plane was searched without a warrant.

Don't need one if we suspect destruction of property is a possibility. In this case official government property from Kruger's time as a minister.

[Finium]

If then NIB did not make the arrest, then I believe that the crime of Espionage, as established and defined in the First Amendment to the National Intelligencery Establishment Act, should be dropped from Mr. Kruger's charges as it was not appropriate for a local constabulary to arrest him for crimes that are specifically the jurisdiction of the NIB.

[Kouralia]

Ainin, can you just post the unrestricted warrant? IIRC from before my holiday I asked for people to receive warrants to arrest Schmidt and Kurger, and search their properties for further evidence of their wrongdoing.

[Kouralia]

If then NIB did not make the arrest, then I believe that the crime of Espionage, as established and defined in the First Amendment to the National Intelligencery Establishment Act, should be dropped from Mr. Kruger's charges as it was not appropriate for a local constabulary to arrest him for crimes that are specifically the jurisdiction of the NIB.

As was said, the warrant commanded any LEO to arrest him.

[Ainin]

Ainin, can you just post the unrestricted warrant? IIRC from before my holiday I asked for people to receive warrants to arrest Schmidt and Kurger, and search their properties for further evidence of their wrongdoing.

A snipplet, the rest is still needed for *reasons*.

[Mediciano]

My plane was searched without a warrant.

Don't need one if we suspect destruction of property is a possibility. In this case official government property from Kruger's time as a minister.

The plane is church property, not government.

[The Nihilistic view]

Don't need one if we suspect destruction of property is a possibility. In this case official government property from Kruger's time as a minister.

The plane is church property, not government.

You know full well what I mean considering I OOCLy Tged you at the time as to whether they would find what what they were looking for. No need to play dumb.

[Glasgia]

No, not poor Tom. He shouldn't have helped plan major anthrax attacks and abused his position as President to aid terrorist organisations.

"Excuse me Prime Minister, but maybe you should consider the idea of innocent until proven guilty? There has been no guilty verdict in the courts, and I refuse to act on the word of the CPS."

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept, one that is intended to ensure that the defendant is guilty beyond reasonable doubt before they are punished for a crime that they may not have done. Having seen the evidence myself, which I believe has been made public, I personally believe that Tom Schmidt is guilty of the aforementioned crimes and will be found guilty in court. However, these are only my beliefs as a private citizen - Not as the Prime Minister or as any representative of the government, in my capacity as which I will place my full faith in our law enforcement and judiciary systems to deliver the correct verdict.

[Finium]

I believe that as the Criminal Code makes no mention of espionage, the constabulary ought not be able to arrest someone. There needs to be some sort of definition of what a crime is before the warrant is signed. It's not enough for a judge to write arrest them for "kerchumohal" and sign it, there must also be a convention in the law that allows for the criminalization of an activity and allows a person to be arrested therein. Therefore, if the constabulary is not empowered by statute to arrest someone for a crime, it is inappropriate for them to arrest someone for a crime.

[The IASM]

OOC: I find it amusing that even though I told the police about my mafia past, I haven't been arrested yet

[Ainin]

I believe that as the Criminal Code makes no mention of espionage, the constabulary ought not be able to arrest someone.

The Criminal Code is not the only source of criminal law in Aurentina. This has been set as a precedent since the very beginning.

There needs to be some sort of definition of what a crime is before the warrant is signed.

Espionage - The act of committing acts of intelligence gathering for the purpose of aiding in attacks, terrorist plots, or disclosure of sensitive information such as classified documents. This is a Delict, that can carry up to a 5 yr. prison sentence and a minimum of 1 yr. (First Amendment, National Intelligencery Establishment Act)
Sedition is the committing of violent actions in an attempt to aid the overthrow or serious injury of the government. It is a felony. (Criminal Code)
Murder in the First Degree: Murder in the First Degree is determined to be the premeditated killing of Person Y by Person X. It is a Felony.
Manslaughter: Manslaughter is determined as the unintentional killing of Person Y by Person X. It is a Delict.

Complicity in... refers to knowledge of a crime prior to it being committed, and not taking action to prevent it. It carries the same punishment as the crime, but cannot be a Felony.
Attempted... refers to taking actions to perpetrate a crime, but not completing the act for external reasons. It carries the same punishment as the crime.

It's not enough for a judge to write arrest them for "kerchumohal" and sign it,

Sure it is. See: Constitution of Aurentina (On Warrants).

there must also be a convention in the law that allows for the criminalization of an activity

Says who?

and allows a person to be arrested therein.

No.

Therefore, if the constabulary is not empowered by statute to arrest someone for a crime, it is inappropriate for them to arrest someone for a crime.

1.1 - Any sworn in Constable (Constable used hereafter to refer to any sworn in law enforcement officer of a Local Constabulary) can arrest someone formally as a Police Officer as opposed to a Citizen’s Arrest.
1.3 - In order to arrest that person, the Constable must have reasonable cause to believe they have breached the required section of the law, and should they fail to have breached that section of law then the Constable could suffer a penalty up to and including Assault, Kidnapping and Unlawful Detainment.
-Policing and Law Enforcement Act

[Ainin]

Any legal complains about the legality of the arrest should be taken to the Federal Court of Appeal.

To see the warrant, please file an Access to Information request in 15 to 20 years. Danke.

[Kouralia]

OOC: I find it amusing that even though I told the police about my mafia past, I haven't been arrested yet

Oh, yeah. Since you didn't give evidence which secured an arrest I'll need to speak to the current MoI/MoJ about that.

[Ainin]

We should reform our freedom of information laws xD

[Kouralia]

I'd also like it to be known that ex-President Schmidt is currently being held illegally.

By the standards of this.

[Ainin]

I'd also like it to be known that ex-President Schmidt is currently being held illegally.

By the standards of this.

que?

[Kouralia]

I'd also like it to be known that ex-President Schmidt is currently being held illegally.

By the standards of this.

que?

to grant the Ministry of Defence and its respective law enforcement divisions

That is, while the original warrant was for everyone, this one is specifically for the Service Police and only the Service Police to serve. No other group was granted the extension.

[New Bierstaat]

OOCly, I was never asked if I wanted to participate in an RP of this type.

You don't have to. If your Senator is wanted for committing a crime it is going to happen.

Go bother someone else's senator. I've never wanted any part of this kind of stuff. My characters were never involved in any criminal activity (except perhaps minor traffic violations), and it's been my utmost intention to play upstanding politicians in all my RPs. I've never gotten involved in the criminal/mafia side of this RP. I shouldn't have to have the possibility of my character being dragged into the criminal side of the Senate RP just because he happens to be in the political side of the RP.

I intended for Schmidt to remain active in politics, much like an Aurentine right-wing version of Bill Clinton, speaking at campaign rallies for right-wing candidates. I probably have never even typed the word "anthrax" in a post in my entire time spent on this site (except this post, of course).

I've worked hard to work with all you guys in this RP and have enjoyed it a lot, but you're going too far here, and I'm not going to comply with this garbage or even acknowledge it in any matter except to OOCly be very disappointed and confused as to why anyone even wanted to drag President Schmidt into this crap in the first place.

If this is the way it's going to be, my characters will no longer be seen in the RP side of the Senate. They will be seen in the Senate building only. I give nobody else the authority to RP my characters, either. This includes not only President Tom Schmidt but also Senator Jones and their respective families.

I'm rather shocked at the immaturity that's been displayed among high-ranking officials in this place lately, and it's honestly making me wonder if I even belong here at all. Again, I've enjoyed the RP so far, and I'd really like to continue on in it, but if this continues, don't expect me to be a part of it for too much longer.