Mod-Sanctioned LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

[New Socialist South Africa]

Its called tolerating non-violent differences. How would you feel if they started trying to illegalise straight marriage and relationships? (I for personally would be pissed off).Which of their ideas are dumb and wrong?

Why should I tolerate a bigot's views? Views that are known to harm and help hurt groups of people who don't deserve it.

Give me a good reason why?

Because quite honestly, I hate bigots, from racists to sexists and homophobes, I have no respect for them.

Wait, are you talking about the homophobic baker's beliefs or the homosexual customers' beliefs?

[Ethel mermania]

Its called tolerating non-violent differences. How would you feel if they started trying to illegalise straight marriage and relationships? (I for personally would be pissed off).Which of their ideas are dumb and wrong?

Why should I tolerate a bigot's views? Views that are known to harm and help hurt groups of people who don't deserve it.

Give me a good reason why?

Because quite honestly, I hate bigots, from racists to sexists and homophobes, I have no respect for them.

why do you hate freedom? freedom includes the right to be a bigot.

[Orcoa]

Why should I tolerate a bigot's views? Views that are known to harm and help hurt groups of people who don't deserve it.

Give me a good reason why?

Because quite honestly, I hate bigots, from racists to sexists and homophobes, I have no respect for them.

Wait, are you talking about the homophobic baker's beliefs or the homosexual customers' beliefs?

I'm taking about the homophobic baker's beliefs

Why should I tolerate them?

[New Socialist South Africa]

Why should I tolerate a bigot's views? Views that are known to harm and help hurt groups of people who don't deserve it.

Give me a good reason why?

Because quite honestly, I hate bigots, from racists to sexists and homophobes, I have no respect for them.

why do you hate freedom? freedom includes the right to be a bigot.

I must agree there, intolerance of intolerance is still intolerance. Only dialogue can be used to try convince people to be more tolerant, and even then it doesn't always work.

[Farnhamia]

Wait, are you talking about the homophobic baker's beliefs or the homosexual customers' beliefs?

I'm taking about the homophobic baker's beliefs

Why should I tolerate them?

It depends on what you mean by "tolerate." You can't forbid him to hold the beliefs you dislike. In this case the law does forbid him from using them as an excuse to discriminate against people.

[Ifreann]

Because it is a public business. Public means public, not "who I choose"

Why not? Why should private businesses be mandated to be public as they are private organisations independent of state ownership?

Because it serves the public good, and that's something the government is rather concerned with. Or should be, at least.

[New Socialist South Africa]

Wait, are you talking about the homophobic baker's beliefs or the homosexual customers' beliefs?

I'm taking about the homophobic baker's beliefs

Why should I tolerate them?

You don't have to like then, agree with them, support them or support there beliefs. You should protest against them. But you still should tolerate their existence and upbringing (strange and warped as it may have been) or you become just as intolerant as them.

[Orcoa]

why do you hate freedom? freedom includes the right to be a bigot.

I must agree there, intolerance of intolerance is still intolerance. Only dialogue can be used to try convince people to be more tolerant, and even then it doesn't always work.

How about no.

I will never be tolerance to Bigots and their views. I have the god damn right to call them out for their stupidity and their views that are being used to suppress groups of people around this country.

[Gauthier]

Why should I tolerate a bigot's views? Views that are known to harm and help hurt groups of people who don't deserve it.

Give me a good reason why?

Because quite honestly, I hate bigots, from racists to sexists and homophobes, I have no respect for them.

why do you hate freedom? freedom includes the right to be a bigot.

So businesses open to the public should be free to ban customers based on racial, sexual or religious orientation?

[Seriong]

I'm absolutely sure we had this thread, except instead of a wedding cake, it was a wedding photographer.

[Gauthier]

I'm absolutely sure we had this thread, except instead of a wedding cake, it was a wedding photographer.

And like before, some people believe Separate But Equal is a right.

[Yes Im Biop]

Good. Discrimination is a vile, disgusting thing and nobody should be allowed to do it.

This times a million

[Farnhamia]

I'm absolutely sure we had this thread, except instead of a wedding cake, it was a wedding photographer.

There's no rule that says we can't have threads on the same basic subject more than once. It would be pretty boring around here if there were. When they occur close to each other in time the Moderation staff sometimes takes steps to combine them or to lock down the new one. Thank you for your observation and for playing NationStates.

[New Socialist South Africa]

I must agree there, intolerance of intolerance is still intolerance. Only dialogue can be used to try convince people to be more tolerant, and even then it doesn't always work.

How about no.

I will never be tolerance to Bigots and their views. I have the god damn right to call them out for their stupidity and their views that are being used to suppress groups of people around this country.

Well then I am afraid you aren't going to be able to tolerate yourself, because you are doing exactly what it is you say you hate, being intolerant.

"We learn to fear, but we can be taught to love." - Nelson Mandela

"Peace cannot be maintained by force, it can only be achieved through understanding." - Albert Einstein

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi

[Wisconsin9]

Hmm. I'm not sure. Why do Christians insist everybody accepts their views?

You just made my day. Thanks for that.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here all week!

[Ifreann]

I'm absolutely sure we had this thread, except instead of a wedding cake, it was a wedding photographer.

I knew this whole thing felt familiar.

[Thafoo]

I can only imagine how he's going to serve gay couples now.

*staring like knives at the couple, begins to frost the cake slowly all the while continuing his freaky-ass stare, then, as he completes the full circumference of the cake, he squirts one last too much bit. One of the gay men sort of raises his hand, about to point this out, but decides to hold back. He (the baker) then begins to add the top layers of the cake, but on the last one, smashes it in to the previous layer so it looks like a weird poop explosion. He nonchalantly says, "oops", brings it to the payment area, and says, "That'll be $25.50."*

[Freiheit Reich]

I'm absolutely sure we had this thread, except instead of a wedding cake, it was a wedding photographer.

We did, we also had one regarding the florist in Washington.

[Galloism]

why do you hate freedom? freedom includes the right to be a bigot.

So businesses open to the public should be free to ban customers based on racial, sexual or religious orientation?

I often think about my own business as an Enrolled Agent. I am open to the public by appointment. I'm therefore subject to nondiscrimination rules (which isn't a problem). I also have the right, and responsibility, to refuse service to customers who aren't being truthful about their income/deductions.

And I read this thread. If the Westboro Baptist Church had a owned business, a law practice that gives representation to their flock for suing others, and had to file a 990-T, and came to me to file it, should I be forced, as a matter of law, to prepare and file that 990-T? I find their beliefs and actions repulsive on a deep and profound level. The hypothetical business itself is repulsive. The mixture of business and religion is repulsive.

It's not even just representing people I find repulsive. It's furthering their repulsive actions through proper reporting. I would be supporting, willingly of unwillingly, their actions of walking around, pissing people off, then suing them in the guise of religion.

Should I be forced? That's what I always ask myself.

[Ethel mermania]

why do you hate freedom? freedom includes the right to be a bigot.

So businesses open to the public should be free to ban customers based on racial, sexual or religious orientation?

i am not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. what a business does under its license to incorperate and operate, and how a person believes are two different things.

he can hate teh gay all he wants, under colorodo law, his bakery has to serve them.

as i said earlier, the baker should go simeplace that supports his views

[Orcoa]

How about no.

I will never be tolerance to Bigots and their views. I have the god damn right to call them out for their stupidity and their views that are being used to suppress groups of people around this country.

Well then I am afraid you aren't going to be able to tolerate yourself, because you are doing exactly what it is you say you hate, being intolerant.

"We learn to fear, but we can be taught to love." - Nelson Mandela

"Peace cannot be maintained by force, it can only be achieved through understanding." - Albert Einstein

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi

Really? Calling out bigots being bigots is being violent now?

Yeah I'm not taking you seriously now. Why should I allow people who wish to suppress people by laws and cultural ideas because of their skin color, religion, sexuality, gender?

Fuck that noise.

[Blasveck]

So businesses open to the public should be free to ban customers based on racial, sexual or religious orientation?

I often think about my own business as an Enrolled Agent. I am open to the public by appointment. I'm therefore subject to nondiscrimination rules (which isn't a problem). I also have the right, and responsibility, to refuse service to customers who aren't being truthful about their income/deductions.

And I read this thread. If the Westboro Baptist Church had a owned business, a law practice that gives representation to their flock for suing others, and had to file a 990-T, and came to me to file it, should I be forced, as a matter of law, to prepare and file that 990-T? I find their beliefs and actions repulsive on a deep and profound level. The hypothetical business itself is repulsive. The mixture of business and religion is repulsive.

It's not even just representing people I find repulsive. It's furthering their repulsive actions through proper reporting. I would be supporting, willingly of unwillingly, their actions of walking around, pissing people off, then suing them in the guise of religion.

Should I be forced? That's what I always ask myself.

It goes both ways concerning non-discrimination.
At least, it should be.

Otherwise, what are we even doing? Favoring certain groups over others?

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

This is a disgusting violation of religious freedom. I don't agree with the baker's views, but every business has the right to refuse service to anyone, even if they're discriminatory.

[Cevalo Nacio]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples
appears that if you own a private business you cant decide who you do business with or not anymore
in this story a judge ordered a Colorado baker to make a cake for a gay couple who married in Massachusetts and wanted a wedding cake to celebrate in Colorado. The Judge said if the baker refused then he would have to pay a fine.

OP thought: I don't like it when some same sex couples use their sexual orientation to force people into doing things their way and if they didn't fold they would face a lawsuit for discrimination. and I read the story their is also discrimination on part of the judge & the gay couple they are forcing someone to do something that goes against their religious beliefs.

So NS any words?

So now a privately owned business can't decide who they want to or don't want to serve? This is some B.S. My thoughts are exactly what the OP says.

So I should be allowed to tell a black person "Sorry, I dont serve niggers"

[Galloism]

I often think about my own business as an Enrolled Agent. I am open to the public by appointment. I'm therefore subject to nondiscrimination rules (which isn't a problem). I also have the right, and responsibility, to refuse service to customers who aren't being truthful about their income/deductions.

And I read this thread. If the Westboro Baptist Church had a owned business, a law practice that gives representation to their flock for suing others, and had to file a 990-T, and came to me to file it, should I be forced, as a matter of law, to prepare and file that 990-T? I find their beliefs and actions repulsive on a deep and profound level. The hypothetical business itself is repulsive. The mixture of business and religion is repulsive.

It's not even just representing people I find repulsive. It's furthering their repulsive actions through proper reporting. I would be supporting, willingly of unwillingly, their actions of walking around, pissing people off, then suing them in the guise of religion.

Should I be forced? That's what I always ask myself.

It goes both ways concerning non-discrimination.
At least, it should be.

Otherwise, what are we even doing? Favoring certain groups over others?

Quite. Logic would dictate that I would be forced to do so.

My general ideas regarding nondiscrimination would enforce such a thing on myself. That's one of the places where my personal interest and my notions regarding societal interest crash head-on.