Mod-Sanctioned LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

[Norstal]

How is the minority discriminating against him?

By forcing him to serve them via the court system.

That's not discrimination.

If I sue you I'm not discriminating against you.

[Myrensis]

So the minority can discriminate against him?

Yeah man, it's so terrible, he had to take their money in exchange for the product he had opened a business for the purpose of providing. Jesus must be weeping for joy that at least he never had to experience that level of persecution.

[Auralia]

Except there are plenty of good bakeries willing to service gay couples.

Ah yes, Separate But Equal.

Except it's not, because the vast majority of bakeries are willing to service both gay and heterosexual couples.

[Farnhamia]

How is the minority discriminating against him?

By forcing him to serve them via the court system.

I doubt there will be police stationed in his shop watching him make a cake for the couple. I daresay they got their cake elsewhere. He probably will have to pay a fine, though.

[Lost heros]

How is the minority discriminating against him?

By forcing him to serve them via the court system.

And that is discriminating how?

[Gauthier]

Because religious practice isn't limited to personal convictions and going to church every Sunday. Religious beliefs permeate one's whole life.

Judaism could also use that argument to ban pork from being sold in stores...

But hypocrisy is easier to expose if you have Muslims pushing to ban pork instead. The owtraeg would be hilarious.

[Gig em Aggies]

their not being forced. people are saying that if the baker refused to serve them then the couple should take their business to another baker who would serve them.

By denying business to them, the baker was forcing them to go some place else to get a cake.

he really didn't force them to go anywhere since a judge ordered him to serve the couple.

[Norstal]

Ah yes, Separate But Equal.

Except it's not, because the vast majority of bakeries are willing to service both gay and heterosexual couples.

That is separate.

And you're saying it's equal.

Separate But Equal.

What is it that you don't understand about those three words?

[Maqo]

This might have been a really interesting debate 50 years ago when that damn Civil Rights Act was made.
However, we're half a century moved on from there now. The business was clearly acting against the law. The rights of people trump the 'rights' of the business in this case.

I'm appalled by the number of people who think the business has done no wrong. Though, I guess this place is frequented by ancaps and libertarians who don't seem to understand that you can infringe on someone elses freedom by exercising your own rights.

Discrimination is bad. Women, blacks, gays are all humans, and should not be treated like second-class citizens and need to go elsewhere for the 'privilege' of being served.

[Auralia]

Because religious practice isn't limited to personal convictions and going to church every Sunday. Religious beliefs permeate one's whole life.

Judaism could also use that argument to ban pork from being sold in stores...

Well, no, because the state should be permitted to burden religious beliefs when it is the least restrictive means of accomplishing a compelling governmental interest.

[Myrensis]

Because religious practice isn't limited to personal convictions and going to church every Sunday. Religious beliefs permeate one's whole life.

Can you quote me the passage from the Bible where Jesus says, "Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" ?

[Gauthier]

Ah yes, Separate But Equal.

Except it's not, because the vast majority of bakeries are willing to service both gay and heterosexual couples.

How do you know that? Do you have a listing of bakeries in the area and their serving orientations?

If you let one store discriminate their customer base, what's to stop others from doing so? After all we all forget how the South had plenty of quality establishments for black customers during the Jim Crow era.

[Norstal]

Because religious practice isn't limited to personal convictions and going to church every Sunday. Religious beliefs permeate one's whole life.

Can you quote me the passage from the Bible where Jesus says, "Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" ?

You haven't read Bullshit 10:15 did you?

"Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" - Bullshit 10:15

[Geilinor]

Ah yes, Separate But Equal.

Except it's not, because the vast majority of bakeries are willing to service both gay and heterosexual couples.

But this bakery is keeping gay couples separate by excluding them from the store and you are saying it isn't unequal. Sounds like separate but equal to me.

[Galter Gulcher]

By forcing him to serve them via the court system.

And that is discriminating how?

Because, maybe the baker has a political or religious belief against gay marriage. Or prehaps he is a idiot who doesnt like making money.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, see, the problem with small businesses is that they operate under the biases and prejudices of the business owner.

You're thinking big corporations, think much smaller, think a regular baker who opened a small shop.

So it's against the baker's religion to make money needed to survive? Weird religion.

No, but it can be against the baker's views, which in turn damage his business.

Look at Chik-Fil-A; that's a perfect example of a business being run by a Christian, anti-gay fellow. Their disdain for homosexuals doesn't affect service because it's freaking chik-fil-a, it doesn't even matter down at the bottom the stupid views of the higher ups.

However, in a small business owned by a single person, those biases matter, because it's how clientele gets rejected or accepted or even made comfortable. Not everyone is in a business to make as much money as they can either.

[Auralia]

Except it's not, because the vast majority of bakeries are willing to service both gay and heterosexual couples.

That is separate.

And you're saying it's equal.

Separate But Equal.

What is it that you don't understand about those three words?

It's obvious you're trying to draw an analogy to the government-sponsored racial segregation of the 1950s. That analogy is inaccurate, because we are talking about a) private sector discrimination, not public sector discrimination, and b) only a small minority of business are engaged in such discrimination.

[Gig em Aggies]

So the minority can discriminate against him?

Yeah man, it's so terrible, he had to take their money in exchange for the product he had opened a business for the purpose of providing. Jesus must be weeping for joy that at least he never had to experience that level of persecution.

your right Jesus suffered more then the baker ever did but that's not topic.

[Slarvainian]

Because religious practice isn't limited to personal convictions and going to church every Sunday. Religious beliefs permeate one's whole life.

Can you quote me the passage from the Bible where Jesus says, "Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" ?

Or even that you must refuse them service.

I think the argument here is though the cake was to celebrate their anniversary and therefore the baker baking the cake would be condoning their sinful acts of what they do privately in the bedroom because to my knowledge a man emotionally loving another man (or the other way around with females) is not condemned in any main religious texts.

[Geilinor]

Can you quote me the passage from the Bible where Jesus says, "Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" ?

You haven't read Bullshit 10:15 did you?

"Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" - Bullshit 10:15

"Gays must not try to fight discrimination!" - Bullshit 10:16

[Lunalia]

That is separate.

And you're saying it's equal.

Separate But Equal.

What is it that you don't understand about those three words?

It's obvious you're trying to draw an analogy to the government-sponsored racial segregation of the 1950s. That analogy is inaccurate, because we are talking about a) private sector discrimination, not public sector discrimination, and b) only a small minority of business are engaged in such discrimination.

I rather wonder how many more businesses would choose to engage in such discrimination if we were to throw out the Civil Rights Act...

[Geilinor]

Can you quote me the passage from the Bible where Jesus says, "Gays must never be allowed to have cake!" ?

Or even that you must refuse them service.

I think the argument here is though the cake was to celebrate their anniversary and therefore the baker baking the cake would be condoning their sinful acts of what they do privately in the bedroom because to my knowledge a man emotionally loving another man (or the other way around with females) is not condemned in any main religious texts.

The baker wouldn't be condoning anything. As long as it's legal and doesn't harm others, it shouldn't matter what happens to the cake. The baker has no right to know what people do in their bedrooms.

[Lost heros]

And that is discriminating how?

Because, maybe the baker has a political or religious belief against gay marriage.

His position on gay marriage is irrelevant when concerning his serving of cake.

Or prehaps he is a idiot who doesnt like making money.

If he was an idiot who didn't like making money, he wouldn't have opened up a business.

[Lost heros]

So it's against the baker's religion to make money needed to survive? Weird religion.

No, but it can be against the baker's views, which in turn damage his business.

Look at Chik-Fil-A; that's a perfect example of a business being run by a Christian, anti-gay fellow. Their disdain for homosexuals doesn't affect service because it's freaking chik-fil-a, it doesn't even matter down at the bottom the stupid views of the higher ups.

However, in a small business owned by a single person, those biases matter, because it's how clientele gets rejected or accepted or even made comfortable. Not everyone is in a business to make as much money as they can either.

Chik-fil-a doesn't refuse chicken to gay people.
This small business was refusing cake to gay people.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Because, maybe the baker has a political or religious belief against gay marriage.

His position on gay marriage is irrelevant when concerning his serving of cake.

Or prehaps he is a idiot who doesnt like making money.

If he was an idiot who didn't like making money, he wouldn't have opened up a business.

1 - Again, his positions put him in a very precarious position. A Sole Ownership (which is what I am assuming this is) is not the same as a corporation. Most Sole Ownerships operate by providing user experiences in the community and in their business. If they feel like they don't want to cater to homosexual couples that's part of UX, but it still doesn't make it right or ethical.

2 - Again, why do you assume everyone is out there to grow into a multi-national corporation and saturate their markets?