NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate] - Version 4

[Lamaredia]

I am launching a petition here to queue jump the constitution bill to top of the queue to be debated on immediately. According to the current REA such a bill petition needs 7 signatures to go before the president.

I will also put mine down.

[Lamaredia]

So because a murderer believes that he has done nothing wrong by murdering someone, you shouldn't prosecute them? Do you realize that that is what you are saying right now? Jesus Christ, you're unbelievable.

Continue to cry if you want at will. I will not freeze the funding of people due to them voting to do something that they believe it is right especially considering there have been not a single bullet fired from their vote.
What this will give is the pretext to any government to freeze the accounts of members of parliament or senators world wide due to them voting for something or they do not like or voting against something they would like to see happen.
Again. Not happening.

Are you even thinking before you post?

If that is your stance on things, then why aren't you proposing the decriminalization of everything? Because every rapist, murderer, pedophile, thief etc. believe they do the right thing, so they shouldn't be prosecuted amirite?

EDIT: Also, bullets have been fired.

[Resora]

Continue to cry if you want at will. I will not freeze the funding of people due to them voting to do something that they believe it is right especially considering there have been not a single bullet fired from their vote.
What this will give is the pretext to any government to freeze the accounts of members of parliament or senators world wide due to them voting for something or they do not like or voting against something they would like to see happen.
Again. Not happening.

Are you even thinking before you post?

If that is your stance on things, then why aren't you proposing the decriminalization of everything? Because every rapist, murderer, pedophile, thief etc. believe they do the right thing, so they shouldn't be prosecuted amirite?

EDIT: Also, bullets have been fired.

Actually, people who violate social norms are well aware that their actions are considered "wrong" by the rest of society, hence the recurring psychological need to rationalize. The difference between the criminal and the conformist is not generally a matter of different internalized social values, but the value placed on those values relative to the motive for the action/crime. Even the most hardened criminals will, if questioned, justify themselves in a number of ways, such as "they had it coming"-style victim blaming, "it's a dog-eat-dog world out there", which denies responsibility, or appealing to a higher loyalty as in those who commit deviant acts for a group or out of dedication to a social cause. The difference is simply that the motive for the action, whatever it was, was considered to be more important than conformity. That's the case for virtually every deviant behavior, from the innocuous non-conformist to the violent criminal to the social activist or revolutionary.

Sorry, bit of a pedant on social theory.

[Resora]

As I have said earlier. I would not be making an international precedent by ordering the freezing of assets due to the Members of Russian parmiament voting for during something that accordaing to their way of thinking is right. They have committed no crime with their votes so my official stance as minister of finance is that the following part of the current bill will not happen.

Regarding Finances
This resolution urges and advises the Minister of the Exchequer to order all assets belonging to members of the Russian Federation Council that voted AYE to authorising a military deployment in the Ukraine and to members of President Vladimir Putin's inner circle, as well as his, frozen.

That's both an unsustainable position and an irrationally legalistic one.

[Lamaredia]

Are you even thinking before you post?

If that is your stance on things, then why aren't you proposing the decriminalization of everything? Because every rapist, murderer, pedophile, thief etc. believe they do the right thing, so they shouldn't be prosecuted amirite?

EDIT: Also, bullets have been fired.

Actually, people who violate social norms are well aware that their actions are considered "wrong" by the rest of society, hence the recurring psychological need to rationalize. The difference between the criminal and the conformist is not generally a matter of different internalized social values, but the value placed on those values relative to the motive for the action/crime. Even the most hardened criminals will, if questioned, justify themselves in a number of ways, such as "they had it coming"-style victim blaming, "it's a dog-eat-dog world out there", which denies responsibility, or appealing to a higher loyalty as in those who commit deviant acts for a group or out of dedication to a social cause. The difference is simply that the motive for the action, whatever it was, was considered to be more important than conformity. That's the case for virtually every deviant behavior, from the innocuous non-conformist to the violent criminal to the social activist or revolutionary.

Sorry, bit of a pedant on social theory.

That depends. I know of some murderers/rapists/pedophiles who are confused as to why they were arrested. They thought they were doing the right thing.

[Geilinor]

Actually, people who violate social norms are well aware that their actions are considered "wrong" by the rest of society, hence the recurring psychological need to rationalize. The difference between the criminal and the conformist is not generally a matter of different internalized social values, but the value placed on those values relative to the motive for the action/crime. Even the most hardened criminals will, if questioned, justify themselves in a number of ways, such as "they had it coming"-style victim blaming, "it's a dog-eat-dog world out there", which denies responsibility, or appealing to a higher loyalty as in those who commit deviant acts for a group or out of dedication to a social cause. The difference is simply that the motive for the action, whatever it was, was considered to be more important than conformity. That's the case for virtually every deviant behavior, from the innocuous non-conformist to the violent criminal to the social activist or revolutionary.

Sorry, bit of a pedant on social theory.

That depends. I know of some murderers/rapists/pedophiles who are confused as to why they were arrested. They thought they were doing the right thing.

I think that's rarely the case, unless one of their motives was revenge.

[Lamaredia]

That depends. I know of some murderers/rapists/pedophiles who are confused as to why they were arrested. They thought they were doing the right thing.

I think that's rarely the case, unless one of their motives was revenge.

For example, look at the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, he legitimately thought that what he was doing was for the betterment of the country. He even smiled during court.

[Resora]

Actually, people who violate social norms are well aware that their actions are considered "wrong" by the rest of society, hence the recurring psychological need to rationalize. The difference between the criminal and the conformist is not generally a matter of different internalized social values, but the value placed on those values relative to the motive for the action/crime. Even the most hardened criminals will, if questioned, justify themselves in a number of ways, such as "they had it coming"-style victim blaming, "it's a dog-eat-dog world out there", which denies responsibility, or appealing to a higher loyalty as in those who commit deviant acts for a group or out of dedication to a social cause. The difference is simply that the motive for the action, whatever it was, was considered to be more important than conformity. That's the case for virtually every deviant behavior, from the innocuous non-conformist to the violent criminal to the social activist or revolutionary.

Sorry, bit of a pedant on social theory.

That depends. I know of some murderers/rapists/pedophiles who are confused as to why they were arrested. They thought they were doing the right thing.

Were they aware that society considered what they were doing the wrong thing?

Because if so, that's simply an example of appealing to a higher authority, e.g. "I know the government thinks killing my kids is bad, but God told me to kill them!" and simply proves they considered obeying their chosen moral authority more important than conforming with the rest of society.

The only exception to this would be those who are socially disabled to the point that they cannot understand even the most basic social expectations, which would imply severe mental disability and is extraordinarily rare. But yeah, you're right, I probably should have qualified what I wrote by saying "most people who violate social norms..." -- though even they generally become aware of their deviant status when informed of it by others and resort to rationalization.

[Geilinor]

I think that's rarely the case, unless one of their motives was revenge.

For example, look at the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, he legitimately thought that what he was doing was for the betterment of the country. He even smiled during court.

Breivik was aware that people disagreed with his actions, he just rationalized it.

[Lamaredia]

For example, look at the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, he legitimately thought that what he was doing was for the betterment of the country. He even smiled during court.

Breivik was aware that people disagreed with his actions, he just rationalized it.

Exactly what Russia is doing right now. That's my entire point, but the MoE won't listen.

[Corenea]

For example, look at the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, he legitimately thought that what he was doing was for the betterment of the country. He even smiled during court.

Breivik was aware that people disagreed with his actions, he just rationalized it.

In his logic, that would make around 90% of the West anti-Western liberal

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

People not happening means NOT HAPPENING...
You can not convince me that by voting they have committed the crime. That is what this law is attempting to do. As a guy that works in finance I know that I can not freeze their accounts due to them not voting how the senators wanted. The funds are left as they are unless there is an UN resolution that requests it.
Also I will call upon our neutrality that says we are neutral in anything that does not affect us directly. This is a situation that does not affect us directly. And as such I will not take sides. I would like to advice everyone that this act is a gross violation of the neutrality act as pointed out by the President pro temporare.

[New Bierstaat]

.

[New Bierstaat]

I am launching a petition here to queue jump the constitution bill to top of the queue to be debated on immediately. According to the current REA such a bill petition needs 7 signatures to go before the president.

[Unicario]

I am launching a petition here to queue jump the constitution bill to top of the queue to be debated on immediately. According to the current REA such a bill petition needs 7 signatures to go before the president.

snip

((Yeah, that's my legit handwriting ))

[New Bierstaat]

snip

((Yeah, that's my legit handwriting ))

Lol, mine's not. It's from Google.

[New Zepuha]

I am launching a petition here to queue jump the constitution bill to top of the queue to be debated on immediately. According to the current REA such a bill petition needs 7 signatures to go before the president.

Signed.

[Dendart]

Signed

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

I am launching a petition here to queue jump the constitution bill to top of the queue to be debated on immediately. According to the current REA such a bill petition needs 7 signatures to go before the president.

Will sign it.

[The Union of the West]

I shall sign.

[Lamaredia]

We have enough signatures.

[The Nihilistic view]

Sweet, I shall send it to the chief.

[Oneracon]

So bills, voting... anything?

[Lamaredia]

So bills, voting... anything?

Read the last page. We just collected signatures to move the Constitution vote up.

[Oneracon]

So bills, voting... anything?

Read the last page. We just collected signatures to move the Constitution vote up.

I did read the last page. My question is what are we doing next?