National Freedom Coalition [NSG SENATE]

[Celritannia]

Pretty much every non-landlocked country in the world with the money to have coastal defenses. It can be in the form of coastal naval patrols, or naval bases along the coast, etc.

That's what I asked what kind. As coastal defenses are normally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_de ... tification like it says here fortifications

You know, it is not difficult to link Coastal Defence with managing flooding.
Military coastal defences are referred to as Coastal Defences and Fortifications.

[Belmaria]

That's what I asked what kind. As coastal defenses are normally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_de ... tification like it says here fortifications

You know, it is not difficult to link Coastal Defence with managing flooding.
Military coastal defences are referred to as Coastal Defences and Fortifications.

I could support that

[The Nihilistic view]

I don't know if coastal flooding is a problem in the med generally, they don't tend to have low lying coastal land like the Netherlands or East Anglia.

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

I do not know about a country in the Mediterranean that has problems with the flooding like the Dutch have. So we do not need those things. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

[Maklohi Vai]

Or you could proofread your bills before you post them. But yes, go ahead and post the meme.

I think I speak for most people when I say be polite or leave.

Right, of cou--

Damn it, I just realized my comment could be read as mean. I'm not good with tone on the Internet sometimes, sorry.

Or you could proofread your bills before you post them. But yes, go ahead and post the meme.

Or you could read that all the way through my posts I have said it's still being put together and at no point is it the finished article as I see it. The finished article comes when I post it in the coffee shop.

That meme is old.

[The Nihilistic view]

I think I speak for most people when I say be polite or leave.

Right, of cou--

Damn it, I just realized my comment could be read as mean. I'm not good with tone on the Internet sometimes, sorry.

Or you could read that all the way through my posts I have said it's still being put together and at no point is it the finished article as I see it. The finished article comes when I post it in the coffee shop.

That meme is old.

I love the joker I got a four foot square oil print of Ledger's Joker in my bedroom.

[Costa Fierro]

I don't know if coastal flooding is a problem in the med generally, they don't tend to have low lying coastal land like the Netherlands or East Anglia.

I don't think so. Generally speaking, weather patterns in the Med are more benevolent than they are further north. There are exceptions, like particularly strong thunderstorms, freak downpours etc. but no, I wouldn't think the Med has any issues with flooding.

Drought on the other hand...

[Costa Fierro]

Fair Taxation Act

Category: Business and Finance | Urgency: Paramount | Author: Lord Johnson (TNV-ALM| Sponsors: Jonathon Smith (Belmaria-LP), Jennifer Broflovski Coren (Corenea-RP), Jän Stuaart (TLT-LP), Edward von Engels ( Zurkerx-LP)

---

Due to the regressive nature of Value Added Tax (VAT) and that the products listed below make up a large part of yearly household expenditure, Value Added Tax on these products represents a severe social ill. The benefit to to ordinary hard working families of removing this 10% tax could be as much as £400 annually. Hard pressed Small businesses, the lifeblood of any nation also stand to gain. Therefore this bill mandates that the following products be re-classified as Essential good's as opposed to their current status as secondary goods in the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal.

Article 1-1

The following goods and services listed in Article 1-2 and 1-3 are to be re-classified as Essential goods and amends the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal to repeal the following from said act; all consumer-targeted forms of gas and oil for commercial and fleet driving from the Secondary Goods and Services clause.

Article 1-2

The following goods are to be classified as essential Goods and are VAT exempt;

• Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG)
• Butane
• Petrol - all forms, also known as Gasoline
• Jet fuel
• Kerosene
• Fuel oil
• Diesel fuel
• Methane
• Electricity
• Ethane
• Propane
• Pentane
• Cooking oil's
• Batteries - any electrochemical cell that stores chemical energy and when used converts the stored energy into electrical energy. This includes both Primary and Secondary forms.
• Petroleum-This umbrella term includes all types of unprocessed crude oil and petroleum products that are made up of refined crude oil
• Natural Gas
• Shale Gas
• Town Gas
• Coal and all refined coal products such as Refined Coal, Coke, and liquefied Coal.
• Wood sold as a combustible fuel products, including Charcoal.
• Liquid Hydrogen

Article 1-3

Any service related to providing the goods above to both households or businesses are to be classified as essential services. Example's include but are not limited to, piping gas to the home and or commercial property, bringing electricity to the home and or commercial property, the extraction, refinement or production of the above goods and the importing or exporting of the goods listed Article 1-2.

Updated again.

Coal is tax free? Seriously? You wouldn't add ethanol because of the damage it does to the environment and because of apparent price influences on food and yet coal is there? Which is one of the most destructive thermal fuels in both extraction and usage? What reasons are behind this decision?

Your doing a good job of arguing my point for me.

I'm not. I'm asking you to apply the tax exemptions fairly. Picking and choosing different fuels is overtly hypocritical on the basis that you simply cannot exclude one fuel based on the reasons you and others have said and yet include other fuels that have exactly the same ramifications.

Also, why are batteries listed? Batteries are not a fuel unto themselves or a fuel source. The chemicals used in the batteries is the stuff that actually makes the electricity. So listing battery acid ingredients (and don't ask me what they are because I don't have a clue) would make more sense.

[The Nihilistic view]

Fair Taxation Act

Category: Business and Finance | Urgency: Paramount | Author: Lord Johnson (TNV-ALM| Sponsors: Jonathon Smith (Belmaria-LP), Jennifer Broflovski Coren (Corenea-RP), Jän Stuaart (TLT-LP), Edward von Engels ( Zurkerx-LP)

---

Due to the regressive nature of Value Added Tax (VAT) and that the products listed below make up a large part of yearly household expenditure, Value Added Tax on these products represents a severe social ill. The benefit to to ordinary hard working families of removing this 10% tax could be as much as £400 annually. Hard pressed Small businesses, the lifeblood of any nation also stand to gain. Therefore this bill mandates that the following products be re-classified as Essential good's as opposed to their current status as secondary goods in the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal.

Article 1-1

The following goods and services listed in Article 1-2 and 1-3 are to be re-classified as Essential goods and amends the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal to repeal the following from said act; all consumer-targeted forms of gas and oil for commercial and fleet driving from the Secondary Goods and Services clause.

Article 1-2

The following goods are to be classified as essential Goods and are VAT exempt;

• Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG)
• Butane
• Petrol - all forms, also known as Gasoline
• Jet fuel
• Kerosene
• Fuel oil
• Diesel fuel
• Methane
• Electricity
• Ethane
• Propane
• Pentane
• Cooking oil's
• Batteries - any electrochemical cell that stores chemical energy and when used converts the stored energy into electrical energy. This includes both Primary and Secondary forms.
• Petroleum-This umbrella term includes all types of unprocessed crude oil and petroleum products that are made up of refined crude oil
• Natural Gas
• Shale Gas
• Town Gas
• Coal and all refined coal products such as Refined Coal, Coke, and liquefied Coal.
• Wood sold as a combustible fuel products, including Charcoal.
• Liquid Hydrogen

Article 1-3

Any service related to providing the goods above to both households or businesses are to be classified as essential services. Example's include but are not limited to, piping gas to the home and or commercial property, bringing electricity to the home and or commercial property, the extraction, refinement or production of the above goods and the importing or exporting of the goods listed Article 1-2.

Updated again.

Coal is tax free? Seriously? You wouldn't add ethanol because of the damage it does to the environment and because of apparent price influences on food and yet coal is there? Which is one of the most destructive thermal fuels in both extraction and usage? What reasons are behind this decision?

Your doing a good job of arguing my point for me.

I'm not. I'm asking you to apply the tax exemptions fairly. Picking and choosing different fuels is overtly hypocritical on the basis that you simply cannot exclude one fuel based on the reasons you and others have said and yet include other fuels that have exactly the same ramifications.

Also, why are batteries listed? Batteries are not a fuel unto themselves or a fuel source. The chemicals used in the batteries is the stuff that actually makes the electricity. So listing battery acid ingredients (and don't ask me what they are because I don't have a clue) would make more sense.

You just quoted the reason FOOD

There you might see it this time as opposed to the other 15 times you have ignored it.

Last time I checked opening a coal mine, setting up a drilling platform and safely operating a nuclear power station did not affect the world price of food commodities.

Now as you can probably tell most people believe that ethanol is not a great idea as a fuel due to it's effect on food prices as most of it is created using energy crops. Now you can either accept that or not care, It's up to you but at this point I don't think any of us care what you say.

[Costa Fierro]

There you might see it this time as opposed to the other 15 times you have ignored it.

Maybe you've seen the 15 or so times where I've acknowledged it was one of the reasons and explained why it was hypocritical.

Last time I checked opening a coal mine, setting up a drilling platform and safely operating a nuclear power station did not affect the world price of food commodities.

Maybe not. However, I am assuming you are aware of the effects of the coal industry upon the global environment. And making coal cheaper (which, for reasons mainly pertaining to the demand for coal in the Mediterranean which, short of fueling power stations, there is no real need) is a stupid move. For environmental reasons obviously.

Now as you can probably tell most people believe that ethanol is not a great idea as a fuel due to it's effect on food prices as most of it is created using energy crops.

Look, I personally do not believe ethanol is any better than the listed fuels. But fair's fair.

[The Nihilistic view]

The aim of the exercise is to reduce the burden ordinary working households. That's it, tax does not stop people using what they need to survive or get by in our modern world, they just cut back on other things.

Taxing something is only useful to raise revenue, we don't need the revenue and this is a way to give most of it back to middle and working class people in an unbureaucratic exceedingly cheap way that makes an instant impact to people's lives. Green energy must be pushed for through legislation like RD's fine bill, you don't need taxes, you don't need subsidies, you just need legislation. But until that point punishing ordinary people for a situation they have no control over is stupid, unjust, and passing the buck. We the politicians allowed this reliance on fossil fuels to develop and we must solve it but we must also make sure it's cheap for ordinary people.

As I just said, when the opening of a coal mine adversely effects the world price of grain or orange juice or Rice, then it would be hypocritical but since it has never so far been the case then it's not. Your belief it's hypocritical shows to everyone that you have not taken it in the last 16 times you have read people's post's on the matter.

But I don't suppose you care do you? Makes me wonder why you bothered to become a politician, you just seem to see a product and think "I got to get me a slice of that pie, Tax that product, fine that action " just for the taxes own sake. There is no method or adapting to the situation, it's just tax or fine.

Still further arguing is not going to get you anywhere, most seem to agree Ethanol is bad, worse even than fossil fuels so listening to those people it seems to me that I should not add it to the list. So I won't.

[Regnum Dominae]

Everyone who supports the restoration of freedom of speech in Aurentina should vote AYE on the First Amendment to the Criminal Code of the Aurentine Commonwealth.

[Costa Fierro]

That's it, tax does not stop people using what they need to survive or get by in our modern world, they just cut back on other things.

So cut back on other taxes then. Income taxes. Corporate taxes. They'd provide a more substantial benefit to people.

Your belief it's hypocritical shows to everyone that you have not taken it in the last 16 times you have read people's post's on the matter.

I have. That was only your reason. And your reason wasn't the only one I listed nor was it the only reason mentioned. People were against ethanol for environmental reasons, which is a hypocritical reason for doing so.

But I don't suppose you care do you?

Two things. Firstly, why is whether I care about something or not relevant to this debate? And secondly, what makes you say that? I made a suggestion and when you replied, I asked why you said x for x reasons. It's not exactly an opinionated or emotional discussion topic.

Makes me wonder why you bothered to become a politician.

Because asking what I am doing here is totes relevant to the discussion at hand.

Still further arguing is not going to get you anywhere, most seem to agree Ethanol is bad, worse even than fossil fuels so listening to those people it seems to me that I should not add it to the list. So I won't.

Fine. Doing it because of food is a valid, albeit arbitrary reason why you can't add it. Doing it because of environmental reasons is a stupid one that flies in the face of established scientific fact. In saying that, if you could add ethanol derived from cooking oil, that would be a nice compromise. Assuming of course, you're in the mood for compromise.

Also, you seem to have missed it earlier. What exactly is the reasoning behind having batteries there when they aren't actual fuel? They have fuel inside them but the batteries themselves aren't fuel.

[The Nihilistic view]

That's it, tax does not stop people using what they need to survive or get by in our modern world, they just cut back on other things.

So cut back on other taxes then. Income taxes. Corporate taxes. They'd provide a more substantial benefit to people.

Your belief it's hypocritical shows to everyone that you have not taken it in the last 16 times you have read people's post's on the matter.

I have. That was only your reason. And your reason wasn't the only one I listed nor was it the only reason mentioned. People were against ethanol for environmental reasons, which is a hypocritical reason for doing so.

But I don't suppose you care do you?

Two things. Firstly, why is whether I care about something or not relevant to this debate? And secondly, what makes you say that? I made a suggestion and when you replied, I asked why you said x for x reasons. It's not exactly an opinionated or emotional discussion topic.

Makes me wonder why you bothered to become a politician.

Because asking what I am doing here is totes relevant to the discussion at hand.

Still further arguing is not going to get you anywhere, most seem to agree Ethanol is bad, worse even than fossil fuels so listening to those people it seems to me that I should not add it to the list. So I won't.

Fine. Doing it because of food is a valid, albeit arbitrary reason why you can't add it. Doing it because of environmental reasons is a stupid one that flies in the face of established scientific fact. In saying that, if you could add ethanol derived from cooking oil, that would be a nice compromise. Assuming of course, you're in the mood for compromise.

Also, you seem to have missed it earlier. What exactly is the reasoning behind having batteries there when they aren't actual fuel? They have fuel inside them but the batteries themselves aren't fuel.

You really don't care about the poor at all do you. We have a massive tax free allowance so cutting income taxes will not make a difference to the poor, nor will cutting corporation tax. The aim is to help the poor not the rich.

[Costa Fierro]

You really don't care about the poor at all do you.

And you came to this conclusion how?

[The Nihilistic view]

Everyone who supports the restoration of freedom of speech in Aurentina should vote AYE on the First Amendment to the Criminal Code of the Aurentine Commonwealth.

I'm not actually sure it does anything, you see it does not repeal or annul/void the clause being changed. They are the usual way's of amending something.

[Belmaria]

I support cutting all forms of taxes, but especially consumption taxes like our VAT because consumption taxes are regressive and therefore hurt the poor the most.

[Costa Fierro]

I support cutting all forms of taxes, but especially consumption taxes like our VAT because consumption taxes are regressive and therefore hurt the poor the most.

Do we know what VAT is applied to?

[Belmaria]

I support cutting all forms of taxes, but especially consumption taxes like our VAT because consumption taxes are regressive and therefore hurt the poor the most.

Do we know what VAT is applied to?

Yes. That is why we are trying to exempt the above materials from VAT.

[Costa Fierro]

Do we know what VAT is applied to?

Yes. That is why we are trying to exempt the above materials from VAT.

So saying fresh fruit and vegetables should be exempt from VAT would not be unreasonable. Or am I in some sort of alternate universe?

[The Nihilistic view]

Yes. That is why we are trying to exempt the above materials from VAT.

So saying fresh fruit and vegetables should be exempt from VAT would not be unreasonable. Or am I in some sort of alternate universe?

Actually you are.

[Beta Test]

Fair Taxation Act

Category: Business and Finance | Urgency: Paramount | Author: Lord Johnson (TNV)| Sponsors:

---

Due to the regressive nature of Value Added Tax (VAT) and that the products listed below make up a large part of yearly household expenditure, Value Added Tax on these products represents a severe social ill. The benefit to to ordinary hard working families of removing this 10% tax could be as much as £400 annually. Hard pressed Small businesses, the lifeblood of any nation also stand to gain. Therefore this bill mandates that the following products be re-classified as Essential good's as opposed to their current status as secondary goods in the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal.

Article 1-1

The following goods and services listed in Article 1-2 are to be re-classified as Essential goods and amends the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal to repeal the following from said act; all consumer-targeted forms of gas and oil for commercial and fleet driving from the Secondary Goods and Services clause.

Article 1-2

The following goods and services are to be classified as essential goods and services and VAT exempt;

• Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG)
• Butane
• Petrol - all forms, also known as Gasoline
• Jet fuel
• Kerosene
• Fuel oil
• Diesel fuel
• Methane
• Electricity
• Ethane
• Propane
• Pentane
• Cooking oil's
• Batteries - any electrochemical cell that stores chemical energy and when used converts the stored energy into electrical energy. This includes both Primary and Secondary forms.
• Petroleum
• Natural Gas
• Shale Gas
• Town Gas

In the bill is going to be various types of fuel, gas and electric. But what I am post here is to ask whether this bill can gain official presidential and government support as opposed to the usual private members bills we usually see in the senate. Are most people supportive of this?

It's not quite finished yet but I hope you all see this as how the NFC government can take the lead on helping hard pressed families in the current economic situation and bring down the cost of living effectively, immediately for everyone and helping those on low incomes most.

I demand sponsorship.

[Costa Fierro]

Oh, just quickly Nihil, jet fuel is a purer form of kerosene.

[The Nihilistic view]

Fair Taxation Act

Category: Business and Finance | Urgency: Paramount | Author: Lord Johnson (TNV-ALM| Sponsors: Jonathon Smith (Belmaria-LP), Jennifer Broflovski Coren (Corenea-RP), Jän Stuaart (TLT-LP), Edward von Engels ( Zurkerx-LP)

---

Due to the regressive nature of Value Added Tax (VAT) and the fact that the products listed below make up a large part of annual household expenditure, Value Added Tax on these products represents a severe social ill. The benefit of removing this 10% tax to ordinary hard working families could amount to as much as £400 annually. Hard pressed small businesses, the lifeblood of our nation, also stand to gain. Therefore this bill mandates that the following products be re-classified as essential goods, as opposed to their current status as secondary goods in the 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal.

Article 1-1

The following goods and services listed in Article 1-2 and 1-3 are to be re-classified as Essential goods. The 2013 Aurentine Budget Proposal shall be amended to repeal the following from said act: all consumer-targeted forms of gas and oil for commercial and fleet driving in the Secondary Goods and Services clause.

Article 1-2

The following goods are to be classified as essential Goods by law, and are VAT exempt;

• Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG)
• Butane
• Petrol - all forms, also known as Gasoline
• Jet fuel
• Kerosene
• Fuel oil
• Diesel fuel
• Methane
• Electricity
• Ethane
• Propane
• Pentane
• Cooking oils
• Batteries - any electrochemical cell that stores chemical energy and converts the stored energy into electrical energy. This includes both primary and secondary forms.
• Petroleum-This umbrella term includes all types of unprocessed crude oil and petroleum products that are made up of refined crude oil
• Natural Gas
• Shale Gas
• Town Gas
• Coal and all refined coal products such as refined coal, coke, and liquefied coal.
• Wood sold as a combustible fuel product, including charcoal.
• Liquid Hydrogen

Article 1-3

Any services related to providing the goods above to either households, businesses or both are to be classified as essential services. Examples include but are not limited to: Piping gas to the home and or commercial property, porting electricity to the home and/or commercial property, the extraction/refinement/production of the above goods, and the importing or exporting of the goods listed in Article 1-2.

This is the current one Beta.

I am just checking to see if there is anything green I have missed off. But there won't be much green stuff as of course most renewable energy comes from untradeble stuff. Though I could add Uranium? That would reduce the cost of power produced in nuclear plant's.

[Beta Test]

Yes add uranium.