New Democratic Party [NSG Senate | HQ]

[Oneracon]

Nope, go right ahead! You just won't be able to enter the first pot because you're late.

Okay, I wish to run for the Minister of Telecomm. position.

Just a heads up, Telecom is an RG ministry and already spoken for by myself.

[The Nihilistic view]

How does that work? Neo Rome is the current shadow minister. Surly if you what the ministry he must first be consulted?

He want's to keep his position.

[Maklohi Vai]

How does that work? Neo Rome is the current shadow minister. Surly if you what the ministry he must first be consulted?

He want's to keep his position.

That's not how we do things. We turn ministries over to give more people a chance to hold one and to give people who've already held ministries a chance to do something else.

[Soviet Canuckistan]

Mah votes

1. Maklohi Vai
2. Ainin
3. Bering
4. Kamchastkia

[Neo Rome Republic]

In that case, I have no desire for candidacy.

[Maklohi Vai]

Tally so far:

Maklohi Vai: 17
Ainin: 17
Bering: 8
Kamchastkia: 8

In that case, I have no desire for candidacy.

That's too bad. The party needs your help, and I think that as a Councillor you should try to help out. If it's just not going to work, that's ok too, no worries. People have RL and such, and that's perfectly ok. Your choice.

[Neo Rome Republic]

In that case, I have no desire for candidacy.

That's too bad. The party needs your help, and I think that as a Councillor you should try to help out. If it's just not going to work, that's ok too, no worries. People have RL and such, and that's perfectly ok. Your choice.

I just didn't have a desire for another office, and I wanted to undo the changes the Right has made to Telecomm.

[The Nihilistic view]

How does that work? Neo Rome is the current shadow minister. Surly if you what the ministry he must first be consulted?

He want's to keep his position.

That's not how we do things. We turn ministries over to give more people a chance to hold one and to give people who've already held ministries a chance to do something else.

When was Neo Rome the Minister? He never was the minister. He has never got his chance.

[Maklohi Vai]

That's not how we do things. We turn ministries over to give more people a chance to hold one and to give people who've already held ministries a chance to do something else.

When was Neo Rome the Minister? He never was the minister. He has never got his chance.

Being a shadow minister is a chance. I wasn't just referring to the governmental office.

[Unicario]

In that case, I have no desire for candidacy.

That's too bad. The party needs your help, and I think that as a Councillor you should try to help out. If it's just not going to work, that's ok too, no worries. People have RL and such, and that's perfectly ok. Your choice.

I just didn't have a desire for another office, and I wanted to undo the changes the Right has made to Telecomm.

We have Telecom. (the R-G)

[The Nihilistic view]

What you have got is four senators who have been ministers already some more than once running for your parties ministries. Whist a senator who has never had the chance to be a Minister get his chance taken away from him and given to another senator who has been a minister before.

So no MV you don't give people chances, this seems like the same old crowd. Your stated policy is a falsehood and Neo diserves a chance if you win. He is my friend and I see him being cast aside because you all want a go again and he just happened not to be active for day or so. That is no fair on him.

So if you policy really is to give everyone a chance then Neo must have his ministry back so if you win he has a chance to be a proper minister. Not the fill in for 10-15 days like he was at the end of your last term.

[Kamchastkia]

What you have got is four senators who have been ministers already some more than once running for your parties ministries. Whist a senator who has never had the chance to be a Minister get his chance taken away from him and given to another senator who has been a minister before.

So no MV you don't give people chances, this seems like the same old crowd. Your stated policy is a falsehood and Neo diserves a chance if you win. He is my friend and I see him being cast aside because you all want a go again and he just happened not to be active for day or so. That is no fair on him.

So if you policy really is to give everyone a chance then Neo must have his ministry back so if you win he has a chance to be a proper minister. Not the fill in for 10-15 days like he was at the end of your last term.

He can join the RGs and try to get the position there, it's not the NDP's area to forcibly take away other party's ministries.

[The Nihilistic view]

When was Neo Rome the Minister? He never was the minister. He has never got his chance.

Being a shadow minister is a chance. I wasn't just referring to the governmental office.

Disingenuous to say the least. That's like giving everyone the chance to play cricket yet not allowing him to bat, bowl or wicky.

But explain to me how is being a shadow minister a chance to run a government department?

[Maklohi Vai]

What you have got is four senators who have been ministers already some more than once running for your parties ministries. Whist a senator who has never had the chance to be a Minister get his chance taken away from him and given to another senator who has been a minister before.

So no MV you don't give people chances, this seems like the same old crowd. Your stated policy is a falsehood and Neo diserves a chance if you win. He is my friend and I see him being cast aside because you all want a go again and he just happened not to be active for day or so. That is no fair on him.

He still has the opportunity to run for a ministry, as we're only distributing 4 of our 8 ministries right now. If he doesn't want to run in the second round, that's his choice. He definitely does have a chance for a position.

So if you policy really is to give everyone a chance then Neo must have his ministry back so if you win he has a chance to be a proper minister. Not the fill in for 10-15 days like he was at the end of your last term.

That would actually be antithetical to "giving everyone a chance," as it would reserve a ministry for someone without having them stand for election. That's just plain undemocratic.

Nihil, I think you also missed my point about shadow ministries being a "chance" as you would call it. They're just as responsible for coming up with policies and writing bills as the cabinet members are, and they have just the same value to the Coalition which they represent.

Being a shadow minister is a chance. I wasn't just referring to the governmental office.

Disingenuous to say the least. That's like giving everyone the chance to play cricket yet not allowing him to bat, bowl or wicky.

How is this a relevant analogy?

But explain to me how is being a shadow minister a chance to run a government department?

That's not what we're talking about here, and my apologies if that's what you thought it was, but it's known by everyone who stands in these elections that they'll be taking this same post as a shadow minister if we don't win the general election. So this party election is not just for governmental seats, it's for any seat by that name.

[Kamchastkia]

Being a shadow minister is a chance. I wasn't just referring to the governmental office.

Disingenuous to say the least. That's like giving everyone the chance to play cricket yet not allowing him to bat, bowl or wicky.

But explain to me how is being a shadow minister a chance to run a government department?

This ministry is not the party's responsibility to give away, as it is under the ownership of another party.

/discussion

Go complain to the RGs.

[The Nihilistic view]

What you have got is four senators who have been ministers already some more than once running for your parties ministries. Whist a senator who has never had the chance to be a Minister get his chance taken away from him and given to another senator who has been a minister before.

So no MV you don't give people chances, this seems like the same old crowd. Your stated policy is a falsehood and Neo diserves a chance if you win. He is my friend and I see him being cast aside because you all want a go again and he just happened not to be active for day or so. That is no fair on him.

So if you policy really is to give everyone a chance then Neo must have his ministry back so if you win he has a chance to be a proper minister. Not the fill in for 10-15 days like he was at the end of your last term.

He can join the RGs and try to get the position there, it's not the NDP's area to forcibly take away other party's ministries.

The NDP switched the ministry without even notifying the current shadow minister. I would say that's one person force-ably taking away a ministry to give to a third person who the first person then get's something they desire in return whist the original holder is not told, loses out.

[Kamchastkia]

He can join the RGs and try to get the position there, it's not the NDP's area to forcibly take away other party's ministries.

The NDP switched the ministry without even notifying the current shadow minister.

It's not necessary to? It was switched for a reason.

[Neo Rome Republic]

I just didn't have a desire for another office, and I wanted to undo the changes the Right has made to Telecomm.

We have Telecom. (the R-G)

When did that change happen? I must've missed something.

[The Nihilistic view]

What you have got is four senators who have been ministers already some more than once running for your parties ministries. Whist a senator who has never had the chance to be a Minister get his chance taken away from him and given to another senator who has been a minister before.

So no MV you don't give people chances, this seems like the same old crowd. Your stated policy is a falsehood and Neo diserves a chance if you win. He is my friend and I see him being cast aside because you all want a go again and he just happened not to be active for day or so. That is no fair on him.

He still has the opportunity to run for a ministry, as we're only distributing 4 of our 8 ministries right now. If he doesn't want to run in the second round, that's his choice. He definitely does have a chance for a position.

So if you policy really is to give everyone a chance then Neo must have his ministry back so if you win he has a chance to be a proper minister. Not the fill in for 10-15 days like he was at the end of your last term.

That would actually be antithetical to "giving everyone a chance," as it would reserve a ministry for someone without having them stand for election. That's just plain undemocratic.

Nihil, I think you also missed my point about shadow ministries being a "chance" as you would call it. They're just as responsible for coming up with policies and writing bills as the cabinet members are, and they have just the same value to the Coalition which they represent.

Disingenuous to say the least. That's like giving everyone the chance to play cricket yet not allowing him to bat, bowl or wicky.

How is this a relevant analogy?

But explain to me how is being a shadow minister a chance to run a government department?

That's not what we're talking about here, and my apologies if that's what you thought it was, but it's known by everyone who stands in these elections that they'll be taking this same post as a shadow minister if we don't win the general election. So this party election is not just for governmental seats, it's for any seat by that name.

He wanted to stand for his ministry, and you traded his ministry away without telling him for another you wanted. That is not transparent.

Yes, of course I know people then become shadows if their side looses but you treating them as the same thing they are not. the Minister can set policy the shadow can't you see? They are not the same and its wrong you treat them the same in this context.

[Unicario]

The Red-Greens were given Telecom, and we've already got our Minister picked for it. We were given it in a fair trade. I believe we gave the Ministry of Interior for it?

[Soviet Canuckistan]

He still has the opportunity to run for a ministry, as we're only distributing 4 of our 8 ministries right now. If he doesn't want to run in the second round, that's his choice. He definitely does have a chance for a position.


That would actually be antithetical to "giving everyone a chance," as it would reserve a ministry for someone without having them stand for election. That's just plain undemocratic.

Nihil, I think you also missed my point about shadow ministries being a "chance" as you would call it. They're just as responsible for coming up with policies and writing bills as the cabinet members are, and they have just the same value to the Coalition which they represent.


How is this a relevant analogy?


That's not what we're talking about here, and my apologies if that's what you thought it was, but it's known by everyone who stands in these elections that they'll be taking this same post as a shadow minister if we don't win the general election. So this party election is not just for governmental seats, it's for any seat by that name.

He wanted to stand for his ministry, and you traded his ministry away without telling him for another you wanted. That is not transparent.

Yes, of course I know people then become shadows if their side looses but you treating them as the same thing they are not. the Minister can set policy the shadow can't you see? They are not the same and its wrong you treat them the same in this context.

It was transparent, most of the deal happened on this thread, he could have stepped in and said something but chose not to.

[Neo Rome Republic]

He wanted to stand for his ministry, and you traded his ministry away without telling him for another you wanted. That is not transparent.

Yes, of course I know people then become shadows if their side looses but you treating them as the same thing they are not. the Minister can set policy the shadow can't you see? They are not the same and its wrong you treat them the same in this context.

It was transparent, most of the deal happened on this thread, he could have stepped in and said something but chose not to.

Yeah...I was kinda doing something else. Well, I guess I'm not going to be going any hiatus so often, anymore.

[Maklohi Vai]

He still has the opportunity to run for a ministry, as we're only distributing 4 of our 8 ministries right now. If he doesn't want to run in the second round, that's his choice. He definitely does have a chance for a position.


That would actually be antithetical to "giving everyone a chance," as it would reserve a ministry for someone without having them stand for election. That's just plain undemocratic.

Nihil, I think you also missed my point about shadow ministries being a "chance" as you would call it. They're just as responsible for coming up with policies and writing bills as the cabinet members are, and they have just the same value to the Coalition which they represent.


How is this a relevant analogy?


That's not what we're talking about here, and my apologies if that's what you thought it was, but it's known by everyone who stands in these elections that they'll be taking this same post as a shadow minister if we don't win the general election. So this party election is not just for governmental seats, it's for any seat by that name.

He wanted to stand for his ministry, and you traded his ministry away without telling him for another you wanted. That is not transparent.

That transfer took place in a public thread and was not finalized for a while after it was brought up. As a Councillor, NRR could have objected at any time and the deal would have been cancelled. Do you think TG'ing him would have increased his response time, considering he didn't post for several more days after that transfer? Look, it's not ideal, I get that, but we, like everybody else, have to be efficient before election time. If we had had an indication that someone wanted to keep it, we would have kept it, but we did not receive any indication as such. Besides, this same situation occurred in other parts of the Coalition as well. Glasgia gave MSP's MoEnv seat to RG without contacting the current shadow minister, Pesda, who I believe was even active at the time.

Yes, of course I know people then become shadows if their side looses but you treating them as the same thing they are not. the Minister can set policy the shadow can't you see? They are not the same and its wrong you treat them the same in this context.

Are you of the perception that the policy that cabinet ministers set is really of any inherent value? Either way you're getting experience and working in practically the same setting. What changes is your title and maybe the level of scrutiny you get from the opposition, that's it.

This discussion isn't going to get any more productive as it continues, so I'm asking if you'd be willing to end it, Nihil.

[Unicario]

He wanted to stand for his ministry, and you traded his ministry away without telling him for another you wanted. That is not transparent.

That transfer took place in a public thread and was not finalized for a while after it was brought up. As a Councillor, NRR could have objected at any time and the deal would have been cancelled. Do you think TG'ing him would have increased his response time, considering he didn't post for several more days after that transfer? Look, it's not ideal, I get that, but we, like everybody else, have to be efficient before election time. If we had had an indication that someone wanted to keep it, we would have kept it, but we did not receive any indication as such. Besides, this same situation occurred in other parts of the Coalition as well. Glasgia gave MSP's MoEnv seat to RG without contacting the current shadow minister, Pesda, who I believe was even active at the time.

Yes, of course I know people then become shadows if their side looses but you treating them as the same thing they are not. the Minister can set policy the shadow can't you see? They are not the same and its wrong you treat them the same in this context.

Are you of the perception that the policy that cabinet ministers set is really of any inherent value? Either way you're getting experience and working in practically the same setting. What changes is your title and maybe the level of scrutiny you get from the opposition, that's it.

This discussion isn't going to get any more productive as it continues, so I'm asking if you'd be willing to end it, Nihil.

Pesda's a Red-Green, so that MoEnv thing doesn't really work the same.

[Neo Rome Republic]

He wanted to stand for his ministry, and you traded his ministry away without telling him for another you wanted. That is not transparent.

That transfer took place in a public thread and was not finalized for a while after it was brought up. As a Councillor, NRR could have objected at any time and the deal would have been cancelled. Do you think TG'ing him would have increased his response time, considering he didn't post for several more days after that transfer? Look, it's not ideal, I get that, but we, like everybody else, have to be efficient before election time. If we had had an indication that someone wanted to keep it, we would have kept it, but we did not receive any indication as such. Besides, this same situation occurred in other parts of the Coalition as well. Glasgia gave MSP's MoEnv seat to RG without contacting the current shadow minister, Pesda, who I believe was even active at the time.

Yes, of course I know people then become shadows if their side looses but you treating them as the same thing they are not. the Minister can set policy the shadow can't you see? They are not the same and its wrong you treat them the same in this context.

Are you of the perception that the policy that cabinet ministers set is really of any inherent value? Either way you're getting experience and working in practically the same setting. What changes is your title and maybe the level of scrutiny you get from the opposition, that's it.

This discussion isn't going to get any more productive as it continues, so I'm asking if you'd be willing to end it, Nihil.

Actually TGing me would've worked, I always look at my TG's, I never left NS, I was simply involved in matters elsewhere on the forum.