NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate] - Version 3

[Venaleria]

May someone please direct me to a copy of the bill that we are currently debating on? Thank you in advance.

We're debating Domestic Development Category Section 1.

[Gothmogs]

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, but this problem has already been addressed by Mediciano and Welsh Cowboy earlier on. I will link them.
Links:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210782#p16210782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210786#p16210786

[Venaleria]

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

[Gothmogs]

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

From another perspective, I was forced to go to a Catholic church every sunday of my whole life (Give or take a few sundays). I am now still a minor, so I still go, but I am not a Catholic. Children are not so easily brainwashed when they turn into teens.

[Britanno]

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

I was forced to go to worship as a Catholic, and despite being only seven found my ears filled with homophobic nonsense.

[Mediciano]

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

I was forced to go to worship as a Catholic, and despite being only seven found my ears filled with homophobic nonsense.

Which you clearly don't believe now.

[Threlizdun]

Because they do not have a clear judgement at a very own age. Children have the right to decide of course, and they will decide, when the time comes. A child when he/she becomes a teenager will decide what to do about this.

So I presume you'd support the right for parents to force their children to attend Hitler Youth rallies?

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, but this problem has already been addressed by Mediciano and Welsh Cowboy earlier on. I will link them.
Links:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210782#p16210782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210786#p16210786

No, those "problems" suppose that maintaing cultural diversity invalidates the rights of children.

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

Or you view it as important because you were raised to believe it was important and such beliefs have nothing to do with actual importance.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

I was forced to go to worship as a Catholic, and despite being only seven found my ears filled with homophobic nonsense.

Which you clearly don't believe now.

Exactly.

[Britanno]

I find it disgusting how some senators do not respect the will of children. With minor things like going to the shops then the parents can decide, but parents should not be able to force their children to think in a certain way, to view people in a certain way or to believe in a certain something. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that children have the right to have a say in matters that affect them, hence why I wrote my Youth Senate bill.

I agree, but this problem has already been addressed by Mediciano and Welsh Cowboy earlier on. I will link them.
Links:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210782#p16210782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210786#p16210786

I find Mediciano's post disgraceful, as he states it is ok for parents to force their child to attend much bigger things than the shops.

I agree with the PM's statement, as I did state that children should be forced to attend small things such as museums and shops etc.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

From another perspective, I was forced to go to a Catholic church every sunday of my whole life (Give or take a few sundays). I am now still a minor, so I still go, but I am not a Catholic. Children are not so easily brainwashed when they turn into teens.

My point basically. As soon as children become teenagers, they will have their clear judgement and then they will decide.

[Gothmogs]

Because they do not have a clear judgement at a very own age. Children have the right to decide of course, and they will decide, when the time comes. A child when he/she becomes a teenager will decide what to do about this.

So I presume you'd support the right for parents to force their children to attend Hitler Youth rallies?

I agree, but this problem has already been addressed by Mediciano and Welsh Cowboy earlier on. I will link them.
Links:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210782#p16210782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210786#p16210786

No, those "problems" suppose that maintaing cultural diversity invalidates the rights of children.

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

Or you view it as important because you were raised to believe it was important and such beliefs have nothing to do with actual importance.

Read the second link, and ignore the first paragraph of the first link.

[Threlizdun]

Which you clearly don't believe now.

Exactly.

However the vast majority does continue to hold those beliefs throughout their life. The exception does not make the rule.

[The Nihilistic view]

Because they do not have a clear judgement at a very own age. Children have the right to decide of course, and they will decide, when the time comes. A child when he/she becomes a teenager will decide what to do about this.

So I presume you'd support the right for parents to force their children to attend Hitler Youth rallies?

I agree, but this problem has already been addressed by Mediciano and Welsh Cowboy earlier on. I will link them.
Links:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210782#p16210782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210786#p16210786

No, those "problems" suppose that maintaing cultural diversity invalidates the rights of children.

I agree, however, it is not so radical as you may think. My parents forced me to go to church, and I found this was probably one of the ways I kept going as it helped my realize its personal importance. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but that was my experience.

Or you view it as important because you were raised to believe it was important and such beliefs have nothing to do with actual importance.

Oh look, its godwin's law. I wondered when this would show up in the chamber. (The red highlight.)

[Welsh Cowboy]

I agree, but this problem has already been addressed by Mediciano and Welsh Cowboy earlier on. I will link them.
Links:
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210782#p16210782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=16210786#p16210786

I find Mediciano's post disgraceful, as he states it is ok for parents to force their child to attend much bigger things than the shops.

I agree with the PM's statement, as I did state that children should be forced to attend small things such as museums and shops etc.

I think my biggest problem is that somehow prohibiting a parent from taking a 2-year old to church because they don't want to put on clothes required to go is just not a sensible law in my view...

[Venaleria]

Or you view it as important because you were raised to believe it was important and such beliefs have nothing to do with actual importance.

I call for a removal of that unfoundly statement, Senator. You seem to view religion as something very black and white. My parents took me to church for not only the liturgical or prayer sense, but also the community, friendship, and outward service. I do not view religion as the most important thing in my life, but I value it because of the aforestated phrases. You say that religion has no actual importance, that is your personal belief, and not a fact.

[Britanno]

I was forced to go to worship as a Catholic, and despite being only seven found my ears filled with homophobic nonsense.

Which you clearly don't believe now.

No. I believe in a God as well as Heaven and Hell, nothing else. But it took me well over a decade to shake the voices of my past and find my own opinion.

[Gothmogs]

I find Mediciano's post disgraceful, as he states it is ok for parents to force their child to attend much bigger things than the shops.

I agree with the PM's statement, as I did state that children should be forced to attend small things such as museums and shops etc.

I think my biggest problem is that somehow prohibiting a parent from taking a 2-year old to church because they don't want to put on clothes required to go is just not a sensible law in my view...

Yes. This is pretty much the biggest problem for me. Everything else in the bill is just fine IMO.

[Threlizdun]

Read the second link, and ignore the first paragraph of the first link.

And? It still calls for the violation of children's rights because it inconvenience's parents.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

So I presume you'd support the right for parents to force their children to attend Hitler Youth rallies?
No, those "problems" suppose that maintaing cultural diversity invalidates the rights of children.
Or you view it as important because you were raised to believe it was important and such beliefs have nothing to do with actual importance.

Oh look, its godwin's law. I wondered when this would show up in the chamber. (The red highlight.)

I decided to ignore it. At this point I have been insulted and offended so much since yesterday, that the insult does not really have the same impact that it intends to have.

[Mediciano]

Alright, I'll address the root cause of all of these objections with this one statement:

Children are not just vertically challenged adults. They do not understand what is good for them, they can not be relied upon to make their own decisions and they are not capable of making certain choices.

There is a reason why minors can't vote, why they aren't prosecuted as harshly by the law, why they aren't even allowed to opt out of education. The only "human rights" that should be afforded to a minor are the rights to live free from hunger, abuse, neglect, and other inhumane conditions. They do not get a political say, they do not get to pick their religion while under their parents' authority and they do not get to opt out of their green vegetables because it is a "breach of their rights of ingestion."

[Britanno]

Or you view it as important because you were raised to believe it was important and such beliefs have nothing to do with actual importance.

I call for a removal of that unfoundly statement, Senator. You seem to view religion as something very black and white. My parents took me to church for not only the liturgical or prayer sense, but also the community, friendship, and outward service. I do not view religion as the most important thing in my life, but I value it because of the aforestated phrases. You say that religion has no actual importance, that is your personal belief, and not a fact.

I think that is the point of debating things. We debate our own personal views.

[Gothmogs]

Read the second link, and ignore the first paragraph of the first link.

And? It still calls for the violation of children's rights because it inconvenience's parents.

It is oppression of the poor. (I went there. ) Poor parents will not be able to go to church because they can't hire someone to watch their child while they are gone.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

I find Mediciano's post disgraceful, as he states it is ok for parents to force their child to attend much bigger things than the shops.

I agree with the PM's statement, as I did state that children should be forced to attend small things such as museums and shops etc.

I think my biggest problem is that somehow prohibiting a parent from taking a 2-year old to church because they don't want to put on clothes required to go is just not a sensible law in my view...

Mine too. That clause is very ridiculous and the interpretation of it thereafter.

[Venaleria]

I call for a removal of that unfoundly statement, Senator. You seem to view religion as something very black and white. My parents took me to church for not only the liturgical or prayer sense, but also the community, friendship, and outward service. I do not view religion as the most important thing in my life, but I value it because of the aforestated phrases. You say that religion has no actual importance, that is your personal belief, and not a fact.

I think that is the point of debating things. We debate our own personal views.

I realize that, however it was personally offensive to me.

[Britanno]

Alright, I'll address the root cause of all of these objections with this one statement:

Children are not just vertically challenged adults. They do not understand what is good for them, they can not be relied upon to make their own decisions and they are not capable of making certain choices.

There is a reason why minors can't vote, why they aren't persecuted as harshly by the law, why they aren't even allowed to opt out of education. The only "human rights" that should be afforded to a minor are the rights to live free from hunger, abuse, neglect, and other inhumane conditions. They do not get a political say, they do not get to pick their religion while under their parents' authority and they do not get to opt out of their green vegetables because it is a "breach of their rights of ingestion."

Actually, they do (see underlined part).