The National Liberal Party HQ [NSG Senate]

[The Nihilistic view]

Article (Insert number or letter) The effect of a criminal record
(Insert number or letter).1) Those who have been convicted of a crime in Aurentine commonwealth and thus posses a national criminal record shall have their right to the citizen dividend payment indefinitely suspended. The aim of this article of the bill is to promote and encourage individuals to partake in acts of good citizenship and to be thoughtful conscientious members of society.
.2) There are however several ways a citizen with a criminal record may win back the payment of his/her dividend. They are;
-.21) Volunteering to Join the Armed forces of the commonwealth.
-.22) Becoming a volunteer at a charity.
-.23) Performing an act of good citizenship.

.3)In the event of performing any of the above an individual may apply to have their right returned to the citizen dividend bureau. For the application to be successful one of the following criteria must be met;
-.31) In the event the applicant has applied under section .21, has claimed to have joined the armed forces prof of occupation and a signed letter from a commanding officer must be attached to the form and sent to the Bureau.
--The case will then go before a judge who will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then the applicant and the officer will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, The officer will stripped of his commission and sentenced to six months in military prison. In the event the officer did not hold an officers commission and thus is an impersonator, it makes the act of impersonating an officer a crime resulting in the sentence of one year confined in a military prison.
-.32) -In the case of applying under reason .22, a signed letter must be provided from the patron of the charity stating that the applicant does indeed do volunteer work for the charity concerned.
-Signed letters from two other witnesses must also be provided to provide corroboration to the patron.
-None of the three letters may be written by a family member of the applicant.
-The case will then go before a judge who will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, whilst the three witnesses will each lose the right to their own citizens dividend and receive a sentence of 150 hours of community service.
-.33) If the applicant is applying under provision .23 then a signed letters of what happened must be provided on the application from no less than three witnesses to the act for the purposes of corroboration.
-None of the three letters may be written by a family member of the applicant.
-The case will then go before a judge who will look for discrepancies in the statements and will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, whilst the three witnesses will each lose the right to their own citizens dividend and a sentence of 150 hours of community service.

So here is that article for the bill I said I would write. What do you think?

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Oh boy....Liberals...The cancer of the left wing. Please tell me why you capitalist Dogs want to take guns away from the proletariat?

There is no gun policy at the NLP, and if you read our policy we're not left wing we're centre and even slightly centre-right.

Yeah, I'm more of a limited government type, a libertarian conservative if you want to know

Ok, I understand that but this method of welfare (Which is accepted in all states of the US by the way) reduces the cost of welfare in the long run meaning we'd be able to cut taxes down elsewhere and/or cut the welfare budget.

It also allows for benefit claimants to only spend their money on essentials that are what the Universal credit is actually given for, which prevents them from purchasing drugs or alcohol on the measure of having their card blocked for that month. Additionally if we decided to give people the power to add money to their own cards it would encourage claimants to get a job, yes it would still have the same restrictions, but it allows for more personal budgeting, less paperwork, less bureaucracy and overall less burden on the taxpayer.

You are completely uninformed, sir. Here in the US you don't get unemployed for a month, it's for two years. One of the reasons our budget is so big in expenses is because of social security and welfare (Medicate: healthcare to the poor, is counted as welfare in our country). So it's not actually a system that helps us "cut taxes" it's a system that is raising taxes. Many people support making a reform but the older population tends to vote more than the younger one, so they are a powerful political force here. That is why Social Security hasn't been able to be reform as well. Check the AARP, that is an interest group that advocates for no reforms in those systems or at least protect all the benefits of the older population.

Also, I believe that we cannot just move on to draft legislation without having a good debate here. All I have seen is you, sir, and Nihi debating, the other members began debating yesterday. I demand, not ask, demand for more debating time.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Article (Insert number or letter) The effect of a criminal record
(Insert number or letter).1) Those who have been convicted of a crime in Aurentine commonwealth and thus posses a national criminal record shall have their right to the citizen dividend payment indefinitely suspended. The aim of this article of the bill is to promote and encourage individuals to partake in acts of good citizenship and to be thoughtful conscientious members of society.
.2) There are however several ways a citizen with a criminal record may win back the payment of his dividend. They are;
-.21) Volunteering to Join the Armed forces of the commonwealth.
-.22) Becoming a volunteer at a charity.
-.23) Performing an act of good citizenship.

.3)In the event of performing any of the above an individual may apply to have their right returned to the citizen dividend bureau. For the application to be successful one of the following criteria must be met;
-.31) In the event the applicant has applied under section .21 a has claimed to have joined the armed forces prof of occupation and a signed letter from a commanding officer must be attached to the form and sent to the Bureau.
--The case will then go before a judge who will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, The officer will stripped of his commission and sentenced to six months in military prison. In the event the officer did not hold a commission and thus an impersonator, it makes the act of impersonating an officer a crime resulting in the sentence of one year confined in a military prison.
-.32) -In the case of applying under reason .22, a signed letter must be provided from the patron of the charity stating that the applicant does indeed do volunteer work for the charity concerned.
-Signed letters from two other witnesses must also be provided to provide corroboration to the patron.
-None of the three letters may be written by a family member of the applicant.
-The case will then go before a judge who will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, whilst the three witnesses will each lose the right to their own citizens dividend and a sentence of 150 hours of community service.
-.33) If the applicant is applying under provision .23 then a signed letter of what happened must be provided on the application from no less than three witnesses to the act for the purposes of corroboration.
-None of the three letters may be written by a family member of the applicant.
-The case will then go before a judge who will look for discrepancies in the statements and will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, whilst the three witnesses will each lose the right to their own citizens dividend and a sentence of 150 hours of community service.

So here is that article for the bill I said I would write. What do you think?

Not good. I demand more time for debate. This party is becoming more like a party of two, than a party of more than 5 members. This bill was drafted through debate between Battlion and toi.

[The Nihilistic view]

So here is that article for the bill I said I would write. What do you think?

Not good. I demand more time for debate. This party is becoming more like a party of two, than a party of more than 5 members. This bill was drafted through debate between Battlion and toi.

Who is ToI? I had a long discussion with Batt and he asked me to right up this idea before he wrote the full bill.

IT would also be much more helpful to say more than just "not good".

[Ainin]

Not good. I demand more time for debate. This party is becoming more like a party of two, than a party of more than 5 members. This bill was drafted through debate between Battlion and toi.

Who is ToI? I had a long discussion with Batt and he asked me to right up this idea before he wrote the full bill.

IT would also be much more helpful to say more than just "not good".

Psst... "Toi" means "you" in français.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Not good. I demand more time for debate. This party is becoming more like a party of two, than a party of more than 5 members. This bill was drafted through debate between Battlion and toi.

Who is ToI? I had a long discussion with Batt and he asked me to right up this idea before he wrote the full bill.


IT would also be much more helpful to say more than just "not good".

Exactly, between Battlion and you. So I guess New Corenea and I are allowed to also draft part of the bill and inserted it there without proper debate. This is not a party of two.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Who is ToI? I had a long discussion with Batt and he asked me to right up this idea before he wrote the full bill.

IT would also be much more helpful to say more than just "not good".

Psst... "Toi" means "you" in français.

It adds some glamour to the conversation

[The Nihilistic view]

Psst... "Toi" means "you" in français.

It adds some glamour to the conversation

Oh, Hahaha . I have not spoken french for the best part of 6 years! Yo should actually have said Battlion et toi, I might have picked it out then.

[The Nihilistic view]

Who is ToI? I had a long discussion with Batt and he asked me to right up this idea before he wrote the full bill.


IT would also be much more helpful to say more than just "not good".

Exactly, between Battlion and you. So I guess New Corenea and I are allowed to also draft part of the bill and inserted it there without proper debate. This is not a party of two.

We are writing the bill together and then of course as has always been the way you can all comment on it an make suggestions. That has how the senate has always worked, one or two people write a bill then the get the opinion of their other party members.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Exactly, between Battlion and you. So I guess New Corenea and I are allowed to also draft part of the bill and inserted it there without proper debate. This is not a party of two.

We are writing the bill together and then of course as has always been the way you can all comment on it an make suggestions. That has how the senate has always worked, one or two people write a bill then the get the opinion of their other party members.

viewtopic.php?p=16036782#p16036782 Yep, that's the intention of Battlion

[Battlion]

Can everyone stop posting and let me reply to everything, I'm working on a post but people are misreading.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Can everyone stop posting and let me reply to everything, I'm working on a post but people are misreading.

If we don't get proper debate time, I don't care how many whips are behind it (if the bill successfully passes the debate floor of the Senate), I am voting Abstain.

Also, not that I am left-leaning, but let's be realistic, one month of payments for unemployed will not pass the Senate.

[Battlion]

May I just start answering some points because everyone has got muddled up...

Article (Insert number or letter) The effect of a criminal record
(Insert number or letter).1) Those who have been convicted of a crime in Aurentine commonwealth and thus posses a national criminal record shall have their right to the citizen dividend payment indefinitely suspended. The aim of this article of the bill is to promote and encourage individuals to partake in acts of good citizenship and to be thoughtful conscientious members of society.
.2) There are however several ways a citizen with a criminal record may win back the payment of his/her dividend. They are;
-.21) Volunteering to Join the Armed forces of the commonwealth.
-.22) Becoming a volunteer at a charity.
-.23) Performing an act of good citizenship.

.3)In the event of performing any of the above an individual may apply to have their right returned to the citizen dividend bureau. For the application to be successful one of the following criteria must be met;
-.31) In the event the applicant has applied under section .21, has claimed to have joined the armed forces prof of occupation and a signed letter from a commanding officer must be attached to the form and sent to the Bureau.
--The case will then go before a judge who will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, The officer will stripped of his commission and sentenced to six months in military prison. In the event the officer did not hold a commission and thus an impersonator, it makes the act of impersonating an officer a crime resulting in the sentence of one year confined in a military prison.
-.32) -In the case of applying under reason .22, a signed letter must be provided from the patron of the charity stating that the applicant does indeed do volunteer work for the charity concerned.
-Signed letters from two other witnesses must also be provided to provide corroboration to the patron.
-None of the three letters may be written by a family member of the applicant.
-The case will then go before a judge who will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, whilst the three witnesses will each lose the right to their own citizens dividend and a sentence of 150 hours of community service.
-.33) If the applicant is applying under provision .23 then a signed letter of what happened must be provided on the application from no less than three witnesses to the act for the purposes of corroboration.
-None of the three letters may be written by a family member of the applicant.
-The case will then go before a judge who will look for discrepancies in the statements and will then decide if indeed the case is genuine and not fraudulent. The judge will either approve, reject the application or if the judge has reason to suspect fraud then all three witnesses will be called to give evidence at a tribunal.
-If the judge rules the claim is fraudulent then the applicant will receive the sentence of 250 hours of community service, whilst the three witnesses will each lose the right to their own citizens dividend and a sentence of 150 hours of community service.

So here is that article for the bill I said I would write. What do you think?

I like this very much, great writing.

There is no gun policy at the NLP, and if you read our policy we're not left wing we're centre and even slightly centre-right.




Ok, I understand that but this method of welfare (Which is accepted in all states of the US by the way) reduces the cost of welfare in the long run meaning we'd be able to cut taxes down elsewhere and/or cut the welfare budget.

It also allows for benefit claimants to only spend their money on essentials that are what the Universal credit is actually given for, which prevents them from purchasing drugs or alcohol on the measure of having their card blocked for that month. Additionally if we decided to give people the power to add money to their own cards it would encourage claimants to get a job, yes it would still have the same restrictions, but it allows for more personal budgeting, less paperwork, less bureaucracy and overall less burden on the taxpayer.

You are completely uninformed, sir. Here in the US you don't get unemployed for a month, it's for two years. One of the reasons our budget is so big in expenses is because of social security and welfare (Medicate: healthcare to the poor, is counted as welfare in our country). So it's not actually a system that helps us "cut taxes" it's a system that is raising taxes. Many people support making a reform but the older population tends to vote more than the younger one, so they are a powerful political force here. That is why Social Security hasn't been able to be reform as well. Check the AARP, that is an interest group that advocates for no reforms in those systems or at least protect all the benefits of the older population.

Also, I believe that we cannot just move on to draft legislation without having a good debate here. All I have seen is you, sir, and Nihi debating, the other members began debating yesterday. I demand, not ask, demand for more debating time.

I think you have misunderstood, I was applying it to Aurentina not America I was giving American stats. Furthermore, I have never suggested they are unemployed for a month what I suggested was that if someone misspends their universal credit on illegal drugs or illegal products that their card could be frozen for that month for payments to resume the next month. Healthcare doesn't come under Welfare in Aurentina and our unemployment rate is 9.15% according to the committee and with a population of 40,863,144 people we have significantly less unemployed than in America. We spend less on welfare than America this needs to be pointed out!

Also, more debating time is good I would like that I never said it was over but we need to start putting ideas to paper so to speak. And I have been asking every member that posts to give opinions and you can't deny that.

So here is that article for the bill I said I would write. What do you think?

Not good. I demand more time for debate. This party is becoming more like a party of two, than a party of more than 5 members. This bill was drafted through debate between Battlion and toi.

This was for the citizens dividend proposal, which has had agreement from people here not the welfare proposal you was discussing.

Exactly, between Battlion and you. So I guess New Corenea and I are allowed to also draft part of the bill and inserted it there without proper debate. This is not a party of two.

We are writing the bill together and then of course as has always been the way you can all comment on it an make suggestions. That has how the senate has always worked, one or two people write a bill then the get the opinion of their other party members.

We can't debate a proposal if there is no solid proposal, that is what I've been saying!

We are writing the bill together and then of course as has always been the way you can all comment on it an make suggestions. That has how the senate has always worked, one or two people write a bill then the get the opinion of their other party members.

viewtopic.php?p=16036782#p16036782 Yep, that's the intention of Battlion

Yes, my intention is to get the proposals I support put into law? Doesn't everyone do that?

I must remind you that we don't have to write legislation in the party HQ, I thought it would be good for us to do I have never said Nihil's part was In the proposal it was a suggestion. We can do what everyone else does and just not write party legislation if you want?

[Battlion]

Can everyone stop posting and let me reply to everything, I'm working on a post but people are misreading.

If we don't get proper debate time, I don't care how many whips are behind it (if the bill successfully passes the debate floor of the Senate), I am voting Abstain.

Also, not that I am left-leaning, but let's be realistic, one month of payments for unemployed will not pass the Senate.

Again, you haven't read what I said.

Universal Credit exists and is already distributed, what I said was that they be distributed out monthly... If the money is misspent the technology is there to block the card and stop the benefit for that month.

There are party structure changes incoming soon which will remove whips anyway so that isn't an issue, you've misunderstood what I said.

[The Nihilistic view]

I have just prof read and corrected some grammatical errors in the proposal I posted at the top of the page. If anyone finds anymore then let me know.

[Lamaredia]

If we are talking about getting money while being unemployed, look up the Swedish U-register (A-kassa Arbetslöshet=Unemployment) where you pay a fee each month so that you are insured if you unwillingly lose your job.

[The Nihilistic view]

If we are talking about getting money while being unemployed, look up the Swedish U-register (A-kassa Arbetslöshet=Unemployment) where you pay a fee each month so that you are insured if you unwillingly lose your job.

Oh dear, not PPI!


Also Battlion, are you currently writing up the rest of the citizens dividend bill?

[Battlion]

If we are talking about getting money while being unemployed, look up the Swedish U-register (A-kassa Arbetslöshet=Unemployment) where you pay a fee each month so that you are insured if you unwillingly lose your job.

We already give money to the unemployed by the Universal Credit, what we're discussing changes the way it's distributed and allows us to prevent that credit being spent on illegal drugs and products that it's not meant for.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

May I just start answering some points because everyone has got muddled up...

So here is that article for the bill I said I would write. What do you think?

I like this very much, great writing.

You are completely uninformed, sir. Here in the US you don't get unemployed for a month, it's for two years. One of the reasons our budget is so big in expenses is because of social security and welfare (Medicate: healthcare to the poor, is counted as welfare in our country). So it's not actually a system that helps us "cut taxes" it's a system that is raising taxes. Many people support making a reform but the older population tends to vote more than the younger one, so they are a powerful political force here. That is why Social Security hasn't been able to be reform as well. Check the AARP, that is an interest group that advocates for no reforms in those systems or at least protect all the benefits of the older population.

Also, I believe that we cannot just move on to draft legislation without having a good debate here. All I have seen is you, sir, and Nihi debating, the other members began debating yesterday. I demand, not ask, demand for more debating time.

I think you have misunderstood, I was applying it to Aurentina not America I was giving American stats. Furthermore, I have never suggested they are unemployed for a month what I suggested was that if someone misspends their universal credit on illegal drugs or illegal products that their card could be frozen for that month for payments to resume the next month. Healthcare doesn't come under Welfare in Aurentina and our unemployment rate is 9.15% according to the committee and with a population of 40,863,144 people we have significantly less unemployed than in America. We spend less on welfare than America this needs to be pointed out!

Also, more debating time is good I would like that I never said it was over but we need to start putting ideas to paper so to speak. And I have been asking every member that posts to give opinions and you can't deny that.

Not good. I demand more time for debate. This party is becoming more like a party of two, than a party of more than 5 members. This bill was drafted through debate between Battlion and toi.

This was for the citizens dividend proposal, which has had agreement from people here not the welfare proposal you was discussing.

We are writing the bill together and then of course as has always been the way you can all comment on it an make suggestions. That has how the senate has always worked, one or two people write a bill then the get the opinion of their other party members.

We can't debate a proposal if there is no solid proposal, that is what I've been saying!

viewtopic.php?p=16036782#p16036782 Yep, that's the intention of Battlion

Yes, my intention is to get the proposals I support put into law? Doesn't everyone do that?

I must remind you that we don't have to write legislation in the party HQ, I thought it would be good for us to do I have never said Nihil's part was In the proposal it was a suggestion. We can do what everyone else does and just not write party legislation if you want?

I meant both proposals, sir

[Battlion]

Then that is fine, but honestly I'm reluctant to continue doing party legislation discussions after that... You've accused me very seriously here and it's something we don't have to do but I wanted to do for us to stand out a bit.

Might just revert to what everyone else does if it isn't worth the hassle.

[The Nihilistic view]

Then that is fine, but honestly I'm reluctant to continue doing party legislation discussions after that... You've accused me very seriously here and it's something we don't have to do but I wanted to do for us to stand out a bit.

Might just revert to what everyone else does if it isn't worth the hassle.

I stand behind You on this, I think it is good to have such an open leader and the discussions we have been having about the three proposals/ideas put forward. It is one reason I came to this party and I would encourage you to keep doing the same.

As For Hannover perhaps instead of moaning that Batt and myself are the the only two writing and discussing the proposals in detail for the main, join in more and give your opinion. I would have just emailed it to batt if it was our intention to become a two man show without input from the rest of the party and these accusations are really not fair on either of us. You have been moaning for a whole page about not being included but I posted the section of the bill so people can say what they think, so comment on what we post instead of moaning we are the only two commenting on each others ideas.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

Then that is fine, but honestly I'm reluctant to continue doing party legislation discussions after that... You've accused me very seriously here and it's something we don't have to do but I wanted to do for us to stand out a bit.

Might just revert to what everyone else does if it isn't worth the hassle.

I stand behind You on this, I think it is good to have such an open leader and the discussions we have been having about the three proposals/ideas put forward. It is one reason I came to this party and I would encourage you to keep doing the same.

As For Hannover perhaps instead of moaning that Batt and myself are the the only two writing and discussing the proposals in detail for the main, join in more and give your opinion. I would have just emailed it to batt if it was our intention to become a two man show without input from the rest of the party and these accusations are really not fair on either of us. You have been moaning for a whole page about not being included but I posted the section of the bill so people can say what they think, so comment on what we post instead of moaning we are the only two commenting on each others ideas.

Well, I am sorry, I forgot that I am not allowed to have a life nor a job. And I was just saying that all members should be able to participate. It seems like it is you who became offended that I demanded that we are given an opportunity to debate in these proposals.

[Battlion]

I stand behind You on this, I think it is good to have such an open leader and the discussions we have been having about the three proposals/ideas put forward. It is one reason I came to this party and I would encourage you to keep doing the same.

As For Hannover perhaps instead of moaning that Batt and myself are the the only two writing and discussing the proposals in detail for the main, join in more and give your opinion. I would have just emailed it to batt if it was our intention to become a two man show without input from the rest of the party and these accusations are really not fair on either of us. You have been moaning for a whole page about not being included but I posted the section of the bill so people can say what they think, so comment on what we post instead of moaning we are the only two commenting on each others ideas.

Well, I am sorry, I forgot that I am not allowed to have a life nor a job. And I was just saying that all members should be able to participate. It seems like it is you who became offended that I demanded that we are given an opportunity to debate in these proposals.

No, I'm more offended you go shouting that we're excluding people when if you look through the last few pages I have been edging people to give opinions.

And again, we don't need to debate them if I wanted to... we don't even need to be coming up with party legislation... it is something I thought would be good to do. We could be like every other party if you want?

[The Nihilistic view]

I stand behind You on this, I think it is good to have such an open leader and the discussions we have been having about the three proposals/ideas put forward. It is one reason I came to this party and I would encourage you to keep doing the same.

As For Hannover perhaps instead of moaning that Batt and myself are the the only two writing and discussing the proposals in detail for the main, join in more and give your opinion. I would have just emailed it to batt if it was our intention to become a two man show without input from the rest of the party and these accusations are really not fair on either of us. You have been moaning for a whole page about not being included but I posted the section of the bill so people can say what they think, so comment on what we post instead of moaning we are the only two commenting on each others ideas.

Well, I am sorry, I forgot that I am not allowed to have a life nor a job. And I was just saying that all members should be able to participate. It seems like it is you who became offended that I demanded that we are given an opportunity to debate in these proposals.

why do you think I posted that article?

I am offended at your unfounded accusations towards batt and myself. I don't know why I bothered I should have just TGed it straight to batt. In future I think we will just discuss things in private, its less hassle.


OOC: also leave real life out of it, your not the only one with a life and job you know so it does you no credit to act like it.

[Battlion]

May I just say, this is the end of the matter.

If you want to discuss it further TG me, now let's get back to discussing the proposals.

Debate will end on the 13th, that is plenty of time I think we're agreed on that?