NSG Senate Coffee Shop: 50% off Americanos [NSG Senate]

[Byzantium Imperial]

Oh, ok then

But.... then that means this thing cant be as powerful as the other much more massive weapon of yours. And that weapon was about the same strength as a regular nuclear warhead, would barely destroy a city with that. For the amount of money we are putting into this project, I want to be able to one shot the rest of Europe.

Depending on the number of rods, it could.

Those rods that require a big ass shuttle to get into space? Mind you, we dont have a space program, or space budget. Or plans to implement one.

[Dragomere]

Depending on the number of rods, it could.

At least you now acknowledge that such a program would be a flagrant violation of international law, and immediately make us a target...

I did not say that it violates international law.

[Byzantium Imperial]

At least you now acknowledge that such a program would be a flagrant violation of international law, and immediately make us a target...

I did not say that it violates international law.

By not being able to blow up continents with single shots though, you are breaking the laws of cost effectiveness. Namely, that we could carpet bomb the whole of Europe in either machine gun bullets, Sarin Gas canisters, plague rats, or nukes and still save alot more money in the process.

[Oneracon]

At least you now acknowledge that such a program would be a flagrant violation of international law, and immediately make us a target...

I did not say that it violates international law.

By stating your bill repeals any laws contrary to its goal (the establishment of space-based WMDs), you are implicitly acknowledging that it is against the law.

[Dragomere]

How?

"Repeals, all legislation that bans any project similar to Icarus."

So it repeals the ILA, by implication repealing the 2A-ILA, which sets out our UN membership terms.

I just found it and read it and none of the them are against the building of Icarus.

[Dragomere]

I did not say that it violates international law.

By stating your bill repeals any laws contrary to its goal (the establishment of space-based WMDs), you are implicitly acknowledging that it is against the law.

None of it is against the law.

[Geilinor]

By stating your bill repeals any laws contrary to its goal (the establishment of space-based WMDs), you are implicitly acknowledging that it is against the law.

None of it is against the law.

UN, Outer Space Treaty. We ratified essentially all international law there is in the ILA.

[Geilinor]

Peaceful Space Act

Author: Geilinor [NDP] | Category: Other | Urgency: Moderate | Sponsors: Oneracon [RG]

Whereas, attempts are being made to establish space based weapons programs;

Whereas, the Outer Space Treaty of the United Nations has declared that "states shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner" and "the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind";

Whereas, a militarization of space could threaten scientific opportunities for space exploration;

Whereas, the relatively small defence budget and military influence of Aurentina does not warrant the installation of weapons in space;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare that the Aurentine Commonwealth shall only use outer space for peaceful and non-military purposes.

Defines "outer space" as "the void that exists between celestial bodies".

Declares that the government of Aurentina shall never install any type or form of weapons in outer space, with the sole exception of weapons designed to intercept warheads coming in at a very high altitude.

Affirms that Aurentina believes in a peaceful outer space that is reserved for scientific research and cooperation between the world's nations.

Mandates that scientific research into outer space shall be funded $1 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Creates the Aurentine Space Technology Research Agency (ASTRA), a department within the Ministry of Research and Astronomy

Repeals any legislation establishing a weaponisation of space.

Any sponsors?

[Dragomere]

None of it is against the law.

UN, Outer Space Treaty. We ratified essentially all international law there is in the ILA.

I checked that law and its amendments and none of it makes that illegal.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Peaceful Space Act

Author: Geilinor [NDP] | Category: Other | Urgency: Moderate | Sponsors: Oneracon [RG]

Whereas, attempts are being made to establish space based weapons programs;

Whereas, the Outer Space Treaty of the United Nations has declared that "states shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner" and "the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind";

Whereas, a militarization of space could threaten scientific opportunities for space exploration;

Whereas, the relatively small defence budget and military influence of Aurentina does not warrant the installation of weapons in space;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare that the Aurentine Commonwealth shall only use outer space for peaceful and non-military purposes.

Defines "outer space" as "the void that exists between celestial bodies".

Declares that the government of Aurentina shall never install any type or form of weapons in outer space, with the sole exception of weapons designed to intercept warheads coming in at a very high altitude.

Affirms that Aurentina believes in a peaceful outer space that is reserved for scientific research and cooperation between the world's nations.

Mandates that scientific research into outer space shall be funded $1 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Creates the Aurentine Space Technology Research Agency (ASTRA), a department within the Ministry of Research and Astronomy

Repeals any legislation establishing a weaponisation of space.

Any sponsors?

Nah, this just ties my hands in the future for when I try to slip in a space weapons program into some obscure welfare bill.

[Byzantium Imperial]

UN, Outer Space Treaty. We ratified essentially all international law there is in the ILA.

I checked that law and its amendments and none of it makes that illegal.

'Among its principles, it bars states party to the treaty from placing nuclear weapons or 'any other weapons of mass destruction'
If this weapon isnt a WMD, then i dont know we are bothering in the first place. If it is, its illegal

[Oneracon]

I also find the naming of Project Icarus to be amusing, given the connotations of the name.

[Dragomere]

I checked that law and its amendments and none of it makes that illegal.

'Among its principles, it bars states party to the treaty from placing nuclear weapons or 'any other weapons of mass destruction'
If this weapon isnt a WMD, then i dont know we are bothering in the first place. If it is, its illegal

Actually using figures for a reasonable and cost effective version, the size of the rods would not do any widespread damage, they would be like a tactical nuke without the radiation. My calculations on the other thread had about 8-9 kt (a radius of 1 mile affected); however, to be cost effective, I reduced their size for NSG Senate's version, so that it gets a little less than 4 (a radius of 3/4 of a mile affected).

Thus, it is not a WMD, as it lacks "Mass Destruction".

[Oneracon]

'Among its principles, it bars states party to the treaty from placing nuclear weapons or 'any other weapons of mass destruction'
If this weapon isnt a WMD, then i dont know we are bothering in the first place. If it is, its illegal

Actually using figures for a reasonable and cost effective version, the size of the rods would not do any widespread damage, they would be like a tactical nuke without the radiation. My calculations on the other thread had about 8-9 kt (a radius of 1 mile affected); however, to be cost effective, I reduced their size for NSG Senate's version, so that it gets a little less than 4 (a radius of 3/4 of a mile affected).

Thus, it is not a WMD, as it lacks "Mass Destruction".

It is equivalent to a nuclear weapon, thus it can reasonably be classified as a WMD.

...why am I even still debating this? This bill is a lost cause anyways.

[Dragomere]

Actually using figures for a reasonable and cost effective version, the size of the rods would not do any widespread damage, they would be like a tactical nuke without the radiation. My calculations on the other thread had about 8-9 kt (a radius of 1 mile affected); however, to be cost effective, I reduced their size for NSG Senate's version, so that it gets a little less than 4 (a radius of 3/4 of a mile affected).

Thus, it is not a WMD, as it lacks "Mass Destruction".

It is equivalent to a nuclear weapon, thus it can reasonably be classified as a WMD.

...why am I even still debating this? This bill is a lost cause anyways.

It is not equivalent to a nuke, its yield was less than nukes.

[Oneracon]

Peaceful Space Act

Author: Geilinor [NDP] | Category: Other | Urgency: Moderate | Sponsors: Oneracon [RG]

Whereas, attempts are being made to establish space based weapons programs;

Whereas, the Outer Space Treaty of the United Nations has declared that "states shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner" and "the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind";

Whereas, a militarization of space could threaten scientific opportunities for space exploration;

Whereas, the relatively small defence budget and military influence of Aurentina does not warrant the installation of weapons in space;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare that the Aurentine Commonwealth shall only use outer space for peaceful and non-military purposes.

Defines "outer space" as "the void that exists between celestial bodies".

Declares that the government of Aurentina shall never install any type or form of weapons in outer space, with the sole exception of weapons designed to intercept warheads coming in at a very high altitude.

Affirms that Aurentina believes in a peaceful outer space that is reserved for scientific research and cooperation between the world's nations.

Mandates that scientific research into outer space shall be funded $1 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Creates the Aurentine Space Technology Research Agency (ASTRA), a department within the Ministry of Research and Astronomy

Repeals any legislation establishing a weaponisation of space.

Signal boosting for sanity's sake.

[Dragomere]

Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $1 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.

Repeals, all clauses in any legislation that bans any project similar to Icarus.

[Maklohi Vai]

Peaceful Space Act

Author: Geilinor [NDP] | Category: Other | Urgency: Moderate | Sponsors: Oneracon [RG]

Whereas, attempts are being made to establish space based weapons programs;

Whereas, the Outer Space Treaty of the United Nations has declared that "states shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner" and "the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind";

Whereas, a militarization of space could threaten scientific opportunities for space exploration;

Whereas, the relatively small defence budget and military influence of Aurentina does not warrant the installation of weapons in space;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare that the Aurentine Commonwealth shall only use outer space for peaceful and non-military purposes.

Defines "outer space" as "the void that exists between celestial bodies".

Declares that the government of Aurentina shall never install any type or form of weapons in outer space, with the sole exception of weapons designed to intercept warheads coming in at a very high altitude.

Affirms that Aurentina believes in a peaceful outer space that is reserved for scientific research and cooperation between the world's nations.

Mandates that scientific research into outer space shall be funded $1 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Creates the Aurentine Space Technology Research Agency (ASTRA), a department within the Ministry of Research and Astronomy

Repeals any legislation establishing a weaponisation of space.

Signal boosting for sanity's sake.

Will sponsor.

[Byzantium Imperial]

'Among its principles, it bars states party to the treaty from placing nuclear weapons or 'any other weapons of mass destruction'
If this weapon isnt a WMD, then i dont know we are bothering in the first place. If it is, its illegal

Actually using figures for a reasonable and cost effective version, the size of the rods would not do any widespread damage, they would be like a tactical nuke without the radiation. My calculations on the other thread had about 8-9 kt (a radius of 1 mile affected); however, to be cost effective, I reduced their size for NSG Senate's version, so that it gets a little less than 4 (a radius of 3/4 of a mile affected).

Thus, it is not a WMD, as it lacks "Mass Destruction".

1 mile is more then hiroshima. That was a weak WMD, but a WMD none the less.

In any case, if its weaker then a nuke, WHY ARE WE BOTHERING!??! If we are going to break international law, might as well go big or go home. So either go for the nuke, or dont bother getting a WMD

And I am not willing to break international law that severley over.... nothing really. Its not worth it going for WMDS

[Costa Alegria]

Any nuclear weapon is considered a weapon of mass destruction. For the love of all that is unholy, take the damn hint already.

[Dragomere]

Actually using figures for a reasonable and cost effective version, the size of the rods would not do any widespread damage, they would be like a tactical nuke without the radiation. My calculations on the other thread had about 8-9 kt (a radius of 1 mile affected); however, to be cost effective, I reduced their size for NSG Senate's version, so that it gets a little less than 4 (a radius of 3/4 of a mile affected).

Thus, it is not a WMD, as it lacks "Mass Destruction".

1 mile is more then hiroshima. That was a weak WMD, but a WMD none the less.

In any case, if its weaker then a nuke, WHY ARE WE BOTHERING!??! If we are going to break international law, might as well go big or go home. So either go for the nuke, or dont bother getting a WMD

1 mile is less than Hiroshima, I checked. Though it would be good as a tactical weapon. If you want, I could use a model that is a bit more powerful; however, as it stands, it is not illegal, as only WMDs were banned from space, not weapons such as this.

[Dragomere]

Any nuclear weapon is considered a weapon of mass destruction. For the love of all that is unholy, take the damn hint already.

It is not a nuclear weapon, it lacks a nuclear payload and everything that classifies a nuclear weapon.

[The IASM]

Peaceful Space Act

Author: Geilinor [NDP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors:

Whereas, attempts are being made to establish space based weapons programs;

Whereas, the Outer Space Treaty of the United Nations has declared that "states shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner" and "the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind";

Whereas, a militarization of space could threaten scientific opportunities for space exploration;

Whereas, the relatively small defence budget and military influence of Aurentina does not warrant the installation of weapons in space;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare that the Aurentine Commonwealth shall only use outer space for peaceful and non-military purposes.

Defines "outer space" as "the void that exists between celestial bodies".

Declares that the government of Aurentina shall never install any type or form of weapons in outer space, with the sole exception of weapons designed to intercept warheads coming in at a very high altitude.

Affirms that Aurentina believes in a peaceful outer space that is reserved for scientific research and cooperation between the world's nations.

Mandates that scientific research into outer space shall be funded $3 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Creates, the Aurentina Space Research Agency (ASRA), a department within the [insert ministry here]

An anti-Project Icarus bill, essentially. Project Icarus cost more than the NASA budget does. The last clause said [insert ministry here] because I wasn't sure which ministry would manage it.

NO! GOD NO! NO NO NO! NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!

[The IASM]

Positing this now so I can return to it later without it vanishing (I use an IPad mini).

The Aurentine space projection act

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Proposed by: Dr Lucius Malleolus - (The IASM)
Sponsors:
Category: Science>Space/astronomy

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Realising that Project Icarus is completely insane in all regards considering its colossal disregard for public spending and very little economic pay off and also realising that the Peaceful Space act is ultimately a much more sensible idea on the surface - it holds an incredibly idealistic and irrational view that space will never be weaponised in the future. This is quite obliviously a colossal illusion by all parties supporting it as man is inherently a warlike being and a rational one as well wanting to gain every advantage. I also fear with the arrival of the SABRE engines, as well as other Then there is also the fact that if private space enterprises are truly going to take off [sorry bad pun] they must be protected from aggressors and we are completely lacking in this department. There are also more resources currently elsewhere in the solar system which are infinitely valuable to Aurentina and humanity as a whole, there are enough resources in a few astroids to put the Aurentine economy into overdrive for several years in the foreseeable future. And when we are some we can share this power with the rest of humanity to weak to access it.

The main problem for such visionary plans for many scientists is that there is no cheep efficient way to get into orbit and this is were they are wrong in several regards. We currently have all the technology to create some of the most efficient space programs in existence yet we chose not to bother creating them. For LEO technologies we should be investing in the Skylon space plane in Britain in order to help create cheep space access for Aurentina. For larger and heavier payloads, there is several nuclear rocket designs using many different variations of the traditional designs capable of getting several payloads to the moon and back. However to access the outer reaches of the solar system quickly (relative to other spacecraft which take years) we need to use nuclear pulse propulsion designs or more specifically modernised versions of project Orion's ideas.

When looking at the design objectively and rationally nuclear pulse propulsion designs typically are the most reasonable designs around. They have an incredibly specific impulse, an extremely high thrust velocity and lack the main restriction of conventional rockets, overheating which allows the design to acellerate to several kilometres per second in a single flight. For those unaware of the brilliance that is project Orion, it was a project originally created in the 1950s in order to develop a spacecraft capable of space flight by using small focused nuclear bombs to generate plasma which it will have used to send the spacecraft into orbit.
A PDF declassified by the USAF to help find more details on the subject.

Also realising that project Orion's designs are severely outdated but still relevant suggest that that the entire spacecraft will be unmanned and will use either conventional liquid or solid rocket boasters to get to a safe distance above the launch site [30 kilometres] above sea level were it will activate its computer controlled pusher system which will then help get it out of Earth's SOP, it will continue to fire until it has accelerated enough to reach the astroid belt in under 6 months.

[The Nihilistic view]

Oh come on, that is not how things should work. The minimum should be £20k for teachers who are first starting out, and those who become more experienced and pupils achieve better grades should receive higher pay,

Minimum of £20k. Are you serious? One, that's too low for a job that requires 4-6 years of university education. How do you plan to prevent the best teachers from going to private schools? Two, there's nothing prohibiting higher pay.

He is a teacher!