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Dragomere
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Posts: 2150
Founded: Apr 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomere » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:14 am

Next Washington wrote:
Dragomere wrote:Actually it would be easy to find.


according to one budget your 10 bn would make 71%, according to the other one 56%... what about the rest of the aurentine military?

btw, i don't think we have to discuss this... your idea that this law, once passed, will automatically repeal a previous law that forbids laws like yours, is .... [how to say this in nice words...].... unappropriate and needs to be overthought

That is how RL politics work, thus since this RP is based in RL, that is how our politics work too.
Senator Draco Dragomere of the NSG Senate
DEFCON 1=Total War
DEFCON 2=Conflict
DEFCON 3=Peace Time
CURRENT LEVEL=DEFCON 2
The Great Dragomerian War
War on Dragomere- MT
NONE CURRENTLY

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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Sea Territory » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:15 am

Dragomere wrote:
Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $10 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.


I motion for all Senators to ignore this bill, and it's ridiculous waste of money and tyrannical possibilities.
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Battlion
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Founded: Aug 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Battlion » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:16 am

Dragomere wrote:
Next Washington wrote:
according to one budget your 10 bn would make 71%, according to the other one 56%... what about the rest of the aurentine military?

btw, i don't think we have to discuss this... your idea that this law, once passed, will automatically repeal a previous law that forbids laws like yours, is .... [how to say this in nice words...].... unappropriate and needs to be overthought

That is how RL politics work, thus since this RP is based in RL, that is how our politics work too.


This isn't RL, Aurentine law forbids bills like this yet you think it's legal?

Your bill is illegal, end of story.

It also will result in massive job losses for our armed forces, your bill cuts jobs, insults diplomacy and is grossly expensive for no gain...

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Britanno
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Founded: Apr 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Britanno » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:16 am

Dragomere wrote:That is how RL politics work, thus since this RP is based in RL, that is how our politics work too.


:palm:

No, Aurentine politics works how we legislate it to,
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Battlion
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Founded: Aug 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Battlion » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:17 am

I'm interested as to why Belmaria has sponsored such a bill...

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Next Washington
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Posts: 442
Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Next Washington » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:17 am

Dragomere wrote:
Next Washington wrote:
according to one budget your 10 bn would make 71%, according to the other one 56%... what about the rest of the aurentine military?

btw, i don't think we have to discuss this... your idea that this law, once passed, will automatically repeal a previous law that forbids laws like yours, is .... [how to say this in nice words...].... unappropriate and needs to be overthought

That is how RL politics work, thus since this RP is based in RL, that is how our politics work too.


:rofl: :rofl:

show me one military that sets 71% or 56% of its budget for one program...
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" - RR
"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." - AG
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Ainin
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Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:17 am

Dragomere wrote:
Ainin wrote:Illegal under the International Law Act.

Actually, when a law is passed that goes against another law, the old law becomes null and void unless a portion of the new law amends a portion of the old law to accept it.

Lolnope.
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

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Next Washington
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Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Next Washington » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:18 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:I motion for all Senators to ignore this bill, and it's ridiculous waste of money and tyrannical possibilities.


Seconded. I'll ignore his next posts 8)
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" - RR
"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." - AG
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Macedonian Grand Empire
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Founded: Jan 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Macedonian Grand Empire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:37 am

Dragomere wrote:Actually, when a law is passed that goes against another law, the old law becomes null and void unless a portion of the new law amends a portion of the old law to accept it.


Actualy no. It needs to have a writing in the law that would say so. Also people have said that it is illegal. And i do not want to play a cracpot dictatorship.
So i motion for any debate on this ridiculous bill to be ceased and put it to dust.
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Dragomere
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Founded: Apr 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomere » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:38 am

Please notice that since it is a draft, I am not done editing it.
Senator Draco Dragomere of the NSG Senate
DEFCON 1=Total War
DEFCON 2=Conflict
DEFCON 3=Peace Time
CURRENT LEVEL=DEFCON 2
The Great Dragomerian War
War on Dragomere- MT
NONE CURRENTLY

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Next Washington
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Posts: 442
Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Next Washington » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:14 pm

i'd like to report that i, due to the establishment of the nb, re-write parts of my CRA, but i don't change its purpose:

Continuing Resolution Act


Urgency: Extremely High |Category: Business and Finance |Sponsors: Beta Test, NEO Rome Republic, Belmaria, Windport


Foreword
This proposal shall introduce the creation of Continuing Resolutions (in the following "CR").
The intention of this proposal is to keep the feelings of anger and unsureness among the Aurentinian people as low as possible.


I.A Continuing Resolution shall be defined as:
a.Continuing Resoultions shall be passed when the fiscal period of the Aurentinan government is over and no budget is passed for the following period.
b.The CR shall grant the payment of chosen governmental liabilities until the new budget is passed.

II.The CR shall continue the payment of the following governmental liabilities:
a.Payment of governmental employees
b.Payment of national debt
c.Payment of interest rates of national debt
d.Payment of governmental consum
e.Payment of governmental organisations, insitutes and infrastructure

III.All payments should be funded by one of the following ways:
a.If the previous budget contained a security position, meaning money that is hold for events like this, money may be taken out from there.
b.If the previous budget did not contain a security position, the payments shall be paid by debt or by other ministries.

IV.To the creation of a security position:
a.The creation of a security position may be overruled by a 3/5 majority voted against it.
b.The money in the security position may be used for other, unexpected and unplanned events within a fiscal period. The usage shall be granted by a simple majority vote of the senate.

V.The CR shall be activated automatically:
a.The Minister of Finance must announce the activation of the CR on the first day of the new fisal period, when there is no budget set for this period.
b.The Minister of Finance must control the amount of money spended and choose the departments/programs/liabilities that are paid for with this money.


Epilogue
This proposals shall grant all-time governmental funding for chosen parts of the governments liabilities. Even if the senate has not agreed on a budget the nation shall remain stable, the natural and juridically persons that regularly due to legal agreements receive government payment shall receive their payments and all shareholders of the government shall retain their trust into Aurtentina and its government.


Continuing Resolution Act


Urgency: Extremely High |Category: Business and Finance |Sponsors: Beta Test, NEO Rome Republic, Belmaria, Windport


Foreword
This proposal shall introduce the creation of Continuing Resolutions (in the following "CR").
The intention of this proposal is to keep the feelings of anger and unsureness among the Aurentinian people as low as possible.


I.A Continuing Resolution shall be defined as:
a.Continuing Resoultions shall be passed when the fiscal period of the Aurentinan government is over and no budget is passed for the following period.
b.The CR shall grant the payment of chosen governmental liabilities until the new budget is passed.

II.The CR shall continue the payment of the following governmental liabilities:
a.Payment of governmental employees
b.Payment of national debt
c.Payment of interest rates of national debt
d.Payment of governmental consum
e.Payment of governmental organisations, insitutes and infrastructure

III.All payments should be funded by the National Bank of the Aurentine Commonwealth.

IV.The CR shall be activated automatically:
a.The Minister of Finance must announce the activation of the CR on the first day of the new fisal period, when there is no budget set for this period.
b.The Minister of Finance must control the amount of money spended and choose the departments/programs/liabilities that are paid for with this money.


Epilogue
This proposals shall grant all-time governmental funding for chosen parts of the governments liabilities. Even if the senate has not agreed on a budget the nation shall remain stable, the natural and juridically persons that regularly due to legal agreements receive government payment shall receive their payments and all shareholders of the government shall retain their trust into Aurtentina and its government.


so i changed III., deleted IV. and re-named former V. to new IV.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" - RR
"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." - AG
Factbook Military Statistics
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Byzantium Imperial
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Posts: 1279
Founded: Jul 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzantium Imperial » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:23 pm

Dragomere wrote:
Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $10 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.

Several problems, il go in order from greatest to least problematic.

1.Our ground forces (and airforce and navy by extension) are not yet up to strength, and still need several years if not a couple of decades to get up to acceptable levels. Any massive amount of funds not going towards this is simply prolonging our buildup on the ground (IE where we win wars)

2. Despite my best wishes, the MoD budget is far too small to even hope to undertake this project, and hope to keep the rest of our military on any acceptable level.

3. Diplomatically speaking, a small and relatively new nation weaponizing satellites would be a nightmare. We would be wiped off the map, or strangled economically, before we could ever hope to put this into operation.

4. We have no space program to launch this with. Even more of a drag on the MoD.

5. This would never pass in this senate.

6. The ICARUS weapon in james bond wasnt that strong to begin with, so if thats where the inspiration came from....

7. Too advanced for our current time. Re propose this in say 10-20 years, after the rest of our military is up to fighting strength and space based weapons become more feasible, economically and as an actual weapons system, and perhaps the answer will change.

But for now, NO
Last edited by Byzantium Imperial on Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
New Pyrrhius wrote:Byzantium, eat a Snickers. You become an imperialistic psychopathic dictatorship when you're hungry.

The Grumpy Cat wrote:Their very existence... makes me sick.
After a short 600 year rest, the Empire is back, and is better then ever! After our grueling experience since 1453, no longer will our great empire be suppressed. The Ottomans may be gone, but the war continues!
I support Thermonuclear Warfare. Do you?
Proud member of The Anti Democracy League
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Battlion
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Founded: Aug 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Battlion » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:27 pm

The answer should always be no... not in 10-20 years should it change.

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Byzantium Imperial
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Founded: Jul 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzantium Imperial » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:32 pm

Battlion wrote:The answer should always be no... not in 10-20 years should it change.

Well if Space based weapons get alot cheaper and more diplomatically acceptable then that would prompt a rethink of our stance. Though certainly in our current context the answer is clearly no
New Pyrrhius wrote:Byzantium, eat a Snickers. You become an imperialistic psychopathic dictatorship when you're hungry.

The Grumpy Cat wrote:Their very existence... makes me sick.
After a short 600 year rest, the Empire is back, and is better then ever! After our grueling experience since 1453, no longer will our great empire be suppressed. The Ottomans may be gone, but the war continues!
I support Thermonuclear Warfare. Do you?
Proud member of The Anti Democracy League
Senator Willem de Ruyter of the Civic Reform Party

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Dragomere
Minister
 
Posts: 2150
Founded: Apr 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomere » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Icarus is not a laser, it is a orbital bombardment satellite.
Senator Draco Dragomere of the NSG Senate
DEFCON 1=Total War
DEFCON 2=Conflict
DEFCON 3=Peace Time
CURRENT LEVEL=DEFCON 2
The Great Dragomerian War
War on Dragomere- MT
NONE CURRENTLY

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Battlion
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Posts: 588
Founded: Aug 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Battlion » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Dragomere wrote:Icarus is not a laser, it is a orbital bombardment satellite.


Yes, and that makes it more acceptable clearly.

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Next Washington
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Posts: 442
Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Next Washington » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:42 pm

Dragomere wrote:Icarus is not a laser, it is a orbital bombardment satellite.


:palm:

why not place some nukes in the earth of all other countries??
Last edited by Next Washington on Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" - RR
"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." - AG
Factbook Military Statistics
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Battlion
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Founded: Aug 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Battlion » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:45 pm

Next Washington wrote:
Dragomere wrote:Icarus is not a laser, it is a orbital bombardment satellite.


:palm:

why not place some nukes in the earth of all other countries??


Remember folks, it isn't illegal if it's a big space laser!

How long till Dragomere decides we need to do this?

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Next Washington
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Founded: Apr 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Next Washington » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:54 pm

Battlion wrote:
Next Washington wrote:
:palm:

why not place some nukes in the earth of all other countries??


Remember folks, it isn't illegal if it's a big space laser!

How long till Dragomere decides we need to do this?


:rofl:

requires huge surpluses first... or extreme tax rates -
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" - RR
"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." - AG
Factbook Military Statistics
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Byzantium Imperial
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Founded: Jul 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Byzantium Imperial » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Battlion wrote:
Next Washington wrote:
:palm:

why not place some nukes in the earth of all other countries??


Remember folks, it isn't illegal if it's a big space laser!

How long till Dragomere decides we need to do this?

If we could reasonably hope to construct that and pay for it without confiscating all the wealth in Aurentinia (and most of the rest of the world for that matter), I would demand it XD
New Pyrrhius wrote:Byzantium, eat a Snickers. You become an imperialistic psychopathic dictatorship when you're hungry.

The Grumpy Cat wrote:Their very existence... makes me sick.
After a short 600 year rest, the Empire is back, and is better then ever! After our grueling experience since 1453, no longer will our great empire be suppressed. The Ottomans may be gone, but the war continues!
I support Thermonuclear Warfare. Do you?
Proud member of The Anti Democracy League
Senator Willem de Ruyter of the Civic Reform Party

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Kouralia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15122
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:09 pm

Dragomere wrote:
Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $10 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.

Wouldn't work, as you've been told by COrparation. You get roughly 0.01kt of explosive force for 10 tonnes of metal which you've moved into space. Roughly. I can't be bothered to check. It's also a satellite, so any ASM can shoot it down.

So, basically, it's weaker than a nuke. It's always visible to the enemy's sensors (unlike Trident, say). And it can be shot down at your leisure.
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Dragomere
Minister
 
Posts: 2150
Founded: Apr 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Version 2

Postby Dragomere » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:48 pm

Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $10 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.

Repeals, all legislation that bans any project similar to Icarus.
Senator Draco Dragomere of the NSG Senate
DEFCON 1=Total War
DEFCON 2=Conflict
DEFCON 3=Peace Time
CURRENT LEVEL=DEFCON 2
The Great Dragomerian War
War on Dragomere- MT
NONE CURRENTLY

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Finium
Senator
 
Posts: 3849
Founded: Nov 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Finium » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:49 pm

Project Icarus is way out of the legislative purview and I would feel much more comfortable if we did not so closely mandate the directives of the executive.
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Kouralia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15122
Founded: Oct 30, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kouralia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:50 pm

Dragomere wrote:
Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $10 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.

Repeals, all legislation that bans any project similar to Icarus.

You realise we can then counterlegislate on it? Even if you repeal pre-existing legislation.
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Me:
20s, Male,
Britbong, Bi,
Atheist, Cop
Sadly ginger.

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Dragomere
Minister
 
Posts: 2150
Founded: Apr 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomere » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:50 pm

Kouralia wrote:
Dragomere wrote:
Project Icarus

Author: Dragomere [USLP] | Category: Safety and Order | Urgency: High | Sponsors: Belmaria [LP]

Whereas, modern warfare focuses on deterrents to prevent war;

Whereas, nuclear weapons programs in one country is known about in another;

Whereas, space based weapons would be a efficient deterrent from war;

We, the Senate of Aurentina, do hereby declare the creation of Project Icarus.

Declares that Project Icarus shall be to create a series of orbiting satellites armed with weapons that propel a shell, with a tungsten rod in it, towards a target on the surface of the Earth.

Mandates that this project shall be funded $10 billion every year for a minimum of ten years.

Requires, that the system may only be activated by the President or the Minister of Defense.

Wouldn't work, as you've been told by COrparation. You get roughly 0.01kt of explosive force for 10 tonnes of metal which you've moved into space. Roughly. I can't be bothered to check. It's also a satellite, so any ASM can shoot it down.

So, basically, it's weaker than a nuke. It's always visible to the enemy's sensors (unlike Trident, say). And it can be shot down at your leisure.

It is not weaker than a nuke, it yields 481.23 kt
Senator Draco Dragomere of the NSG Senate
DEFCON 1=Total War
DEFCON 2=Conflict
DEFCON 3=Peace Time
CURRENT LEVEL=DEFCON 2
The Great Dragomerian War
War on Dragomere- MT
NONE CURRENTLY

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