I'm not sure what NewZep's bill is about, so I'm just asking if my hunch is correct.
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by Ainin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:26 pm

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:37 pm

by New Zepuha » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:47 pm
Ainin wrote:So, no ex post facto prosecution?
[13:31] <Koyro> I want to be cremated, my ashes put into a howitzer shell and fired at the White House.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:49 pm
by Ainin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:49 pm

by New Zepuha » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:52 pm
Divitaen wrote:New Zepuha wrote:There ya go. But Divitean, prosecutors are the ones that would be doing the abuse.
And that's why we have judges make decisions in the sentencing trial. Judges may abuse it too, but then there are appeals. All I'm saying is that our current judicial system is meant to guard against this, so there is no need to add an extra government committee to list the dates of passed legislation.
[13:31] <Koyro> I want to be cremated, my ashes put into a howitzer shell and fired at the White House.

by Battlion » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:53 pm
New Zepuha wrote:Divitaen wrote:
And that's why we have judges make decisions in the sentencing trial. Judges may abuse it too, but then there are appeals. All I'm saying is that our current judicial system is meant to guard against this, so there is no need to add an extra government committee to list the dates of passed legislation.
I don't believe it creates a council, only requires the PpT and the CPS to review decisions. I see no committee creation.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:54 pm
New Zepuha wrote:Divitaen wrote:
And that's why we have judges make decisions in the sentencing trial. Judges may abuse it too, but then there are appeals. All I'm saying is that our current judicial system is meant to guard against this, so there is no need to add an extra government committee to list the dates of passed legislation.
I don't believe it creates a council, only requires the PpT and the CPS to review decisions. I see no committee creation.

by Geilinor » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:57 pm

by New Zepuha » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:59 pm
Divitaen wrote:New Zepuha wrote:I don't believe it creates a council, only requires the PpT and the CPS to review decisions. I see no committee creation.
Alright, I think I'll sponsor, but before I do, I wanted to confirm something. The bill states punishment for responsible individuals. Do these include prosecutors, administrators who misquoted dates of passed legislation to said prosecutors, people who made the accusation, or all?
[13:31] <Koyro> I want to be cremated, my ashes put into a howitzer shell and fired at the White House.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Compulsory Vaccinations ActAn Act to amend the Bodily Sovereignty Act and institute mandatory vaccinations for deadly and infectious diseases to promote the health of Aurentine childrenSponsors: Ainin [NDP]; NEO Rome Republic [NDP]
The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth,
Recognizing the importance of vaccinations, especially for young children, to decrease the vulnerability of Aurentine citizens to infectious and deadly diseases,
Understanding that a continued proliferation of such infectious and deadly diseases would not only harm the welfare of Aurentine citizens, but place an unnecessary strain and burden upon the Aurentine healthcare system,
Desiring an immediate solution that will require Aurentine citizens to improve their biological immunity to such infectious diseases,
Hereby enacts the following bill:Article 1 - Definitions
- For the purposes of this Act, "vaccine" refers to a medical innovation prepared from a causative agent of a disease or a synthetic substitute of the pathogen that is injected into a human body for the primary purpose of stimulating the body's immune system to prepare against a possible infection by a similar pathogen in the future,
- For the purposes of this Act, "infectious and deadly disease" refers to a a medical illness caused by a proliferation of a harmful biological pathogen that is easily transmissible to other humans, has a high mortality rate amongst infected individuals and has an existing vaccination that has been tested and proven to increase biological immunity against infection by such a disease,
- For the purposes of this Act, "children" refers to Aurentine citizens between the ages of 0-12 years, as this is the age when children are the most vulnerable to infectious and deadly diseases,
Article 2 - Bodily Sovereignty Act- The Bodily Sovereignty Act hereby is amended as follows:
- For the sub-clause entitled "medical treatment", the term "individual" shall be replaced with "an adult older or the same age as the Aurentine age of majority";
- Adds the sentence "Clarifies that children under the age of majority in Aurentina may still be required by law to participate in certain medical procedures, if relevant legislation is passed in the Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth, and no Aurentine adult is allowed to prohibit a child or ward under his or her care to participate in a legally-mandatory medical procedure." to the sub-clause entitled "medical treatment";
Article 3 - Infectious and Deadly Diseases- The National Health Board (NHB) Regional Authorities shall have the responsibility of compiling a Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, which falls under the relevant responsibility of "regulation of all healthcare professionals" under the Universal Healthcare Act, with a list of medical illnesses which fall under the following criteria:
- The disease is easily transmissible and communicable in nature;
- The disease causes infected individuals to suffer from a severely-high mortality rate, enough to cause significant disruption to the Aurentine healthcare services;
- The disease in question falls under the World Health Organization (WHO) Report on Infectious Diseases, unless it is determined to be a disease that is infectious only within the territories of the Aurentine Commonwealth compared to that in the international community;
- The disease has an available vaccine that is able to increase an individual's biological immunity to it;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are required to list the following diseases under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases:
- Tuberculosis;
- Hepatitis B;
- Pneumococcal;
- Diphtheria;
- Pertussis;
- Tetanus;
- Poliovirus;
- Haemophilus influenzae type b;
- Measles;
- Mumps;
- Rubella;
- Human papillomavirus;
- Influenza;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are hereby responsible for the drafting of a recommended timetable, available for public viewing, for children of ages 0-12 years to be immunized or vaccinated against diseases listed in the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, to guide parents who wish to follow governmental guidelines for vaccination;
Article 4 - Mandatory Vaccinations- All children of ages 0-12 years, who are registered, Aurentine citizens, must receive the relevant vaccinations and immunizations against the diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, by the time the child reaches 12 years of age;
- Clarifies that all relevant vaccinations are free-of-charge and completely paid for under the Universal Healthcare Act;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are hereby responsible for the following duties:
- Annually cross-referencing all children, between the ages of 0-12 years, who have received vaccinations under the Aurentine healthcare system, with the list of citizens who turn 12 years of age in that year;
- Ascertaining, from the aforementioned cross-referencing, the list of citizens who have not been immunized and vaccinated from the diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases;
- Coordinating and working with relevant healthcare providers, relevant Medical Care Trusts and the Office of Medical Care and Ambulance Service Regulation (Ofmed) to compile the relevant information listed in the previous sub-clauses of this clause of this Act;
Article 5 - Punishments for non-compliance- All parents with children of 12 years of age that have not been immunized or vaccinated from the relevant diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases are considered to be in non-compliance with this Act, and will be punished with the following a monthly fine of £80.
- Clarifies that the aforementioned punishments will persist when the unvaccinated child reaches 12 years of age until the child has been vaccinated for the relevant diseases or when the child reaches the age of majority, whichever comes first,
- Clarifies that in a case of couple that has endured a custody dispute of a child when he or she was between 0-12 years of age, the parent(s) that had legal custody of the child for the majority of his or her life when he or she was between 0-12 years of age will be held legally liable for non-compliance under this Act, and the parent who coincidentally had custody of the child when he or she turned 12 years of age will not be held in non-compliance alone,
- The punishment of parents in non-compliance of this Act shall be enforced via the list of unvaccinated children compiled by the NHB Regional Authorities in Article 4 of this Act, and the NHB Regional Authorities shall be responsible for coordinating, with relevant medical bodies and judicial agencies to collect the monthly fine required from such parents under this article until the unvaccinated child reaches the age of majority or is vaccinated for the required diseases, whichever comes first.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:00 pm
New Zepuha wrote:Divitaen wrote:
Alright, I think I'll sponsor, but before I do, I wanted to confirm something. The bill states punishment for responsible individuals. Do these include prosecutors, administrators who misquoted dates of passed legislation to said prosecutors, people who made the accusation, or all?
Whoever is found to have purposefully, with intent to do harm or undue punishment, is the ones who will be punished. So mainly prosecuters abusing the system, anyone knowingly aiding or allowing it will be faced with complicity and a smaller fine.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:02 pm

by Neo Rome Republic » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:08 pm
Divitaen wrote:Sponsors and criticisms for an Act to have mandatory vaccinations?Compulsory Vaccinations ActAn Act to amend the Bodily Sovereignty Act and institute mandatory vaccinations for deadly and infectious diseases to promote the health of Aurentine childrenSponsors: Ainin [NDP]
The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth,
Recognizing the importance of vaccinations, especially for young children, to decrease the vulnerability of Aurentine citizens to infectious and deadly diseases,
Understanding that a continued proliferation of such infectious and deadly diseases would not only harm the welfare of Aurentine citizens, but place an unnecessary strain and burden upon the Aurentine healthcare system,
Desiring an immediate solution that will require Aurentine citizens to improve their biological immunity to such infectious diseases,
Hereby enacts the following bill:Article 1 - Definitions
- For the purposes of this Act, "vaccine" refers to a medical innovation prepared from a causative agent of a disease or a synthetic substitute of the pathogen that is injected into a human body for the primary purpose of stimulating the body's immune system to prepare against a possible infection by a similar pathogen in the future,
- For the purposes of this Act, "infectious and deadly disease" refers to a a medical illness caused by a proliferation of a harmful biological pathogen that is easily transmissible to other humans, has a high mortality rate amongst infected individuals and has an existing vaccination that has been tested and proven to increase biological immunity against infection by such a disease,
- For the purposes of this Act, "children" refers to Aurentine citizens between the ages of 0-12 years, as this is the age when children are the most vulnerable to infectious and deadly diseases,
Article 2 - Bodily Sovereignty Act- The Bodily Sovereignty Act hereby is amended as follows:
- For the sub-clause entitled "medical treatment", the term "individual" shall be replaced with "an adult older or the same age as the Aurentine age of majority";
- Adds the sentence "Clarifies that no children under the age of majority in Aurentina may still be required by law to participate in certain medical procedure, if relevant legislation is passed in the Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth, and no Aurentine adult is allowed to prohibit a child or ward under his or her care to participate in a legally-mandatory medical procedure." to the sub-clause entitled "medical treatment";
Article 3 - Infectious and Deadly Diseases- The National Health Board (NHB) Regional Authorities shall have the responsibility of compiling a Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, which falls under the relevant responsibility of "regulation of all healthcare professionals" under the Universal Healthcare Act, with a list of medical illnesses which fall under the following criteria:
- The disease is easily transmissible and communicable in nature;
- The disease causes infected individuals to suffer from a severely-high mortality rate, enough to cause significant disruption to the Aurentine healthcare services;
- The disease in question falls under the World Health Organization (WHO) Report on Infectious Diseases, unless it is determined to be a disease that is infectious only within the territories of the Aurentine Commonwealth compared to that in the international community;
- The disease has an available vaccine that is able to increase an individual's biological immunity to it;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are required to list the following diseases under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases:
- Tuberculosis;
- Hepatitis B;
- Pneumococcal;
- Diphtheria;
- Pertussis;
- Tetanus;
- Poliovirus;
- Haemophilus influenzae type b;
- Measles;
- Mumps;
- Rubella;
- Human papillomavirus;
- Influenza;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are hereby responsible for the drafting of a recommended timetable, available for public viewing, for children of ages 0-12 years to be immunized or vaccinated against diseases listed in the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, to guide parents who wish to follow governmental guidelines for vaccination;
Article 4 - Mandatory Vaccinations- All children of ages 0-12 years, who are registered, Aurentine citizens, must receive the relevant vaccinations and immunizations against the diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, by the time the child reaches 12 years of age;
- Clarifies that all relevant vaccinations are free-of-charge and completely paid for under the Universal Healthcare Act;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are hereby responsible for the following duties:
- Annually cross-referencing all children, between the ages of 0-12 years, who have received vaccinations under the Aurentine healthcare system, with the list of citizens who turn 12 years of age in that year;
- Ascertaining, from the aforementioned cross-referencing, the list of citizens who have not been immunized and vaccinated from the diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases;
- Coordinating and working with relevant healthcare providers, relevant Medical Care Trusts and the Office of Medical Care and Ambulance Service Regulation (Ofmed) to compile the relevant information listed in the previous sub-clauses of this clause of this Act;
Article 5 - Punishments for non-compliance- All parents with children of 12 years of age that have not been immunized or vaccinated from the relevant diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases are considered to be in non-compliance with this Act, and will be punished with the following a monthly fine of £80.
- Clarifies that the aforementioned punishments will persist when the unvaccinated child reaches 12 years of age until the child has been vaccinated for the relevant diseases or when the child reaches the age of majority, whichever comes first,
- Clarifies that in a case of couple that has endured a custody dispute of a child when he or she was between 0-12 years of age, the parent(s) that had legal custody of the child for the majority of his or her life when he or she was between 0-12 years of age will be held legally liable for non-compliance under this Act, and the parent who coincidentally had custody of the child when he or she turned 12 years of age will not be held in non-compliance alone,
- The punishment of parents in non-compliance of this Act shall be enforced via the list of unvaccinated children compiled by the NHB Regional Authorities in Article 4 of this Act, and the NHB Regional Authorities shall be responsible for coordinating, with relevant medical bodies and judicial agencies to collect the monthly fine required from such parents under this article until the unvaccinated child reaches the age of majority or is vaccinated for the required diseases, whichever comes first.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:13 pm
NEO Rome Republic wrote:Divitaen wrote:Sponsors and criticisms for an Act to have mandatory vaccinations?Compulsory Vaccinations ActAn Act to amend the Bodily Sovereignty Act and institute mandatory vaccinations for deadly and infectious diseases to promote the health of Aurentine childrenSponsors: Ainin [NDP]
The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth,
Recognizing the importance of vaccinations, especially for young children, to decrease the vulnerability of Aurentine citizens to infectious and deadly diseases,
Understanding that a continued proliferation of such infectious and deadly diseases would not only harm the welfare of Aurentine citizens, but place an unnecessary strain and burden upon the Aurentine healthcare system,
Desiring an immediate solution that will require Aurentine citizens to improve their biological immunity to such infectious diseases,
Hereby enacts the following bill:Article 1 - Definitions
- For the purposes of this Act, "vaccine" refers to a medical innovation prepared from a causative agent of a disease or a synthetic substitute of the pathogen that is injected into a human body for the primary purpose of stimulating the body's immune system to prepare against a possible infection by a similar pathogen in the future,
- For the purposes of this Act, "infectious and deadly disease" refers to a a medical illness caused by a proliferation of a harmful biological pathogen that is easily transmissible to other humans, has a high mortality rate amongst infected individuals and has an existing vaccination that has been tested and proven to increase biological immunity against infection by such a disease,
- For the purposes of this Act, "children" refers to Aurentine citizens between the ages of 0-12 years, as this is the age when children are the most vulnerable to infectious and deadly diseases,
Article 2 - Bodily Sovereignty Act- The Bodily Sovereignty Act hereby is amended as follows:
- For the sub-clause entitled "medical treatment", the term "individual" shall be replaced with "an adult older or the same age as the Aurentine age of majority";
- Adds the sentence "Clarifies that no children under the age of majority in Aurentina may still be required by law to participate in certain medical procedure, if relevant legislation is passed in the Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth, and no Aurentine adult is allowed to prohibit a child or ward under his or her care to participate in a legally-mandatory medical procedure." to the sub-clause entitled "medical treatment";
Article 3 - Infectious and Deadly Diseases- The National Health Board (NHB) Regional Authorities shall have the responsibility of compiling a Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, which falls under the relevant responsibility of "regulation of all healthcare professionals" under the Universal Healthcare Act, with a list of medical illnesses which fall under the following criteria:
- The disease is easily transmissible and communicable in nature;
- The disease causes infected individuals to suffer from a severely-high mortality rate, enough to cause significant disruption to the Aurentine healthcare services;
- The disease in question falls under the World Health Organization (WHO) Report on Infectious Diseases, unless it is determined to be a disease that is infectious only within the territories of the Aurentine Commonwealth compared to that in the international community;
- The disease has an available vaccine that is able to increase an individual's biological immunity to it;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are required to list the following diseases under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases:
- Tuberculosis;
- Hepatitis B;
- Pneumococcal;
- Diphtheria;
- Pertussis;
- Tetanus;
- Poliovirus;
- Haemophilus influenzae type b;
- Measles;
- Mumps;
- Rubella;
- Human papillomavirus;
- Influenza;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are hereby responsible for the drafting of a recommended timetable, available for public viewing, for children of ages 0-12 years to be immunized or vaccinated against diseases listed in the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, to guide parents who wish to follow governmental guidelines for vaccination;
Article 4 - Mandatory Vaccinations- All children of ages 0-12 years, who are registered, Aurentine citizens, must receive the relevant vaccinations and immunizations against the diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases, by the time the child reaches 12 years of age;
- Clarifies that all relevant vaccinations are free-of-charge and completely paid for under the Universal Healthcare Act;
- The NHB Regional Authorities are hereby responsible for the following duties:
- Annually cross-referencing all children, between the ages of 0-12 years, who have received vaccinations under the Aurentine healthcare system, with the list of citizens who turn 12 years of age in that year;
- Ascertaining, from the aforementioned cross-referencing, the list of citizens who have not been immunized and vaccinated from the diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases;
- Coordinating and working with relevant healthcare providers, relevant Medical Care Trusts and the Office of Medical Care and Ambulance Service Regulation (Ofmed) to compile the relevant information listed in the previous sub-clauses of this clause of this Act;
Article 5 - Punishments for non-compliance- All parents with children of 12 years of age that have not been immunized or vaccinated from the relevant diseases listed under the Registry of Vaccinable Diseases are considered to be in non-compliance with this Act, and will be punished with the following a monthly fine of £80.
- Clarifies that the aforementioned punishments will persist when the unvaccinated child reaches 12 years of age until the child has been vaccinated for the relevant diseases or when the child reaches the age of majority, whichever comes first,
- Clarifies that in a case of couple that has endured a custody dispute of a child when he or she was between 0-12 years of age, the parent(s) that had legal custody of the child for the majority of his or her life when he or she was between 0-12 years of age will be held legally liable for non-compliance under this Act, and the parent who coincidentally had custody of the child when he or she turned 12 years of age will not be held in non-compliance alone,
- The punishment of parents in non-compliance of this Act shall be enforced via the list of unvaccinated children compiled by the NHB Regional Authorities in Article 4 of this Act, and the NHB Regional Authorities shall be responsible for coordinating, with relevant medical bodies and judicial agencies to collect the monthly fine required from such parents under this article until the unvaccinated child reaches the age of majority or is vaccinated for the required diseases, whichever comes first.
Ill sponsor.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:17 pm
Battlion wrote:Absolutely not, what a shameful and disastrous amendment to the Bodily Sovereignty Act

by Battlion » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:18 pm
Divitaen wrote:Battlion wrote:Absolutely not, what a shameful and disastrous amendment to the Bodily Sovereignty Act
Yes senator, I believe you made your position abundantly clear the previous time. The medical ethics debate of free will vs. protection of life is a complicated one, philosophically. I simply believe the medical science on the success of vaccinations, especially at an early age, is rather settled, and given that, the protection of these children's lives is more important than granting choice to parents who fail to see medical and scientific reason. I understand your position on the importance of parental autonomy and a focus on education, so this is merely a point of disagreement.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:21 pm
Battlion wrote:Divitaen wrote:
Yes senator, I believe you made your position abundantly clear the previous time. The medical ethics debate of free will vs. protection of life is a complicated one, philosophically. I simply believe the medical science on the success of vaccinations, especially at an early age, is rather settled, and given that, the protection of these children's lives is more important than granting choice to parents who fail to see medical and scientific reason. I understand your position on the importance of parental autonomy and a focus on education, so this is merely a point of disagreement.
I know, but additionally why aren't you waiting to see the results of the previous act?

by New Zepuha » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:25 pm
[13:31] <Koyro> I want to be cremated, my ashes put into a howitzer shell and fired at the White House.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:26 pm
New Zepuha wrote:I hate forced vaccinations, forcing to be healthy is unethical and disgusting.

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:27 pm
New Zepuha wrote:Divitaen wrote:
Alright, I think I'll sponsor, but before I do, I wanted to confirm something. The bill states punishment for responsible individuals. Do these include prosecutors, administrators who misquoted dates of passed legislation to said prosecutors, people who made the accusation, or all?
Whoever is found to have purposefully, with intent to do harm or undue punishment, is the ones who will be punished. So mainly prosecuters abusing the system, anyone knowingly aiding or allowing it will be faced with complicity and a smaller fine.

by Battlion » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:28 pm
Divitaen wrote:New Zepuha wrote:I hate forced vaccinations, forcing to be healthy is unethical and disgusting.
If it is a matter of life and death, what is wrong with forcing children of 0-12 years, who are most vulnerable to such diseases, to be vaccinated against the will of parents who fail to understand the solid medical evidence available that clearly shows the success of vaccinations? Is that so unethical?

by Divitaen » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:29 pm
Battlion wrote:Divitaen wrote:
If it is a matter of life and death, what is wrong with forcing children of 0-12 years, who are most vulnerable to such diseases, to be vaccinated against the will of parents who fail to understand the solid medical evidence available that clearly shows the success of vaccinations? Is that so unethical?
Because it infringes on the rights of the individual and the rights of parents.
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