NSG Senate Coffee Shop: 50% off Americanos [NSG Senate]

[Ainin]

I think you should listen to your own advice.

In what way, sir? I am pretty sure I have never insulted you. I don't go around throwing little comments that imply something. And, if I ever did, I give you my most sincere apologies, since it was not my intention to do so.

Well, saying that you can't bother to debate with people that disagree with you on this was rude and plain childish, and then you get riled up when I remark that you should get off your high horse.

[Byzantium Imperial]

If you dont think the entire idea behind producing hard drugs is immoral then either A. You dont get the poitn of breaking bad or B. No morals.

Or, that I get morals are irrelevant to legality.

And in any case, the free will of the individuals in this case can go fuck themselves because: I the taxpayer am paying for their healthcare,

Then require them to take rehab or withdraw healthcare.

I the government member am looking out for whats good for them,

Oh, would you also like to tell them when to go to bed, when to eat, when to sleep? Because obviously, you know best for everyone and everyone should defer to your wise judgement.

and I the westerner dont like Al Queda.

Which is absolutely irrelevant.

Its a very small minority who are addicted to heroin. They dont have to be addicted to that, there is marijuana and rehab, and I dont see a single good reason to allow it in the first place.

I dont see single good reason to allow fatty food. Or not sleeping 8 hours. Or not getting appropriate exercise. Would you like to control those as well?

Slippery slope is slippery. Hard drugs do no correlate with fatty foods im afraid

[Byzantium Imperial]

if anyone needs me, im going to excersie my right to bodily sovereignty right now. I assuming the cow that iwll die is irrelevant...

That's not your body last time I checked.

Well the cows remains went into my body, so yes it is. And if being able to put what i want in my body is not what bodily sovereignty is, then how was it relevant to the drug debate?

[Ainin]

Or, that I get morals are irrelevant to legality.


Then require them to take rehab or withdraw healthcare.


Oh, would you also like to tell them when to go to bed, when to eat, when to sleep? Because obviously, you know best for everyone and everyone should defer to your wise judgement.


Which is absolutely irrelevant.


I dont see single good reason to allow fatty food. Or not sleeping 8 hours. Or not getting appropriate exercise. Would you like to control those as well?

Slippery slope is slippery. Hard drugs do no correlate with fatty foods im afraid

That's not what a slippery slope is.

If Nepal said "if heroin is banned, it will lead to x, y and z being banned too." then it would be a slippery slope. This is just a comparison with standard NSG snark.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Slippery slope is slippery. Hard drugs do no correlate with fatty foods im afraid

That's not what a slippery slope is.

If Nepal said "if heroin is banned, it will lead to x, y and z being banned too." then it would be a slippery slope. This is just a comparison with standard NSG snark.

Saying that not allowing Heroin will lead to us regulating fatty foods is indeed a very steep slope.

[Ainin]

That's not what a slippery slope is.

If Nepal said "if heroin is banned, it will lead to x, y and z being banned too." then it would be a slippery slope. This is just a comparison with standard NSG snark.

Saying that not allowing Heroin will lead to us regulating fatty foods is indeed a very steep slope.

He never said that. He said that there was no good reason to allow fatty foods either.

There was no slippery slope, just a comparison.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Saying that not allowing Heroin will lead to us regulating fatty foods is indeed a very steep slope.

He never said that. He said that there was no good reason to allow fatty foods either.

There was no slippery slope, just a comparison.

I know when im beat. I conceed that it was not a slippery slope.


But comparing two things that are vastly different, it is.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

In what way, sir? I am pretty sure I have never insulted you. I don't go around throwing little comments that imply something. And, if I ever did, I give you my most sincere apologies, since it was not my intention to do so.

Well, saying that you can't bother to debate with people that disagree with you on this was rude and plain childish, and then you get riled up when I remark that you should get off your high horse.

All I said was that I see no point in debating if you are very solid in that area of your beliefs and I am very solid in that area of my beliefs. It's like the tax issue: we can debate for all eternity, and we will never reach common ground. And btw, I did not say that I can't bother to debate with people that disagree with me; if that was true, I wouldn't be here. I said that I don't see the point of debating with you right now since we both are very solid with our stances, so as I said before, we will not reach common ground. Thus (like in my other post) I apologized if I was rude. It was a pleasure having a conversation with you

[Free South Califas]

And what happens if the user decides not to go along with this avuncular plan of yours, be they actually addicted or just caught in a compromising position on a hard night of partying?

Simple, the choice is rehab or prison.

Obviously, 'caught by police' is the factor that separates addicts from casual users, addicts can be counted on to make good choices under pressure, and casual users who don't want to spend months scrubbing toilets in prison should waste the time of qualified drug addiction counselors.

[Free South Califas]

This argument is totally absurd. If you want to ban the import of that 87% of raw opium or its products, do that. If you want to ban things that specifically have been produced for Taliban profit, do that. If you want to ban something else, do that. Conflating the two won't help you win votes. By the way, your ignorance is showing - opium is a natural product of the drug, morphine is one of its psychoactive chemicals, and heroin is synthesized from morphine.

The word ILLICIT was present for the opium. And my point for it being moddeled to a different market remains completly valid anyway, as some people dont like the additive stuff.

And as i said before, most of the rest of the worlds heroin comes from neighboring Pakistan. Im not winning votes, I just acknolede its near impossible to get "non terror" heroin. And even if you did, the person you got it from is still exploiting people for their addictions, and we shouldnt be supporting their buisness.

I'll take that as basically conceding, since I've proposed that potentially addictive drugs shouldn't generate profit, as a compromise.

And what happens if the user decides not to go along with this avuncular plan of yours, be they actually addicted or just caught in a compromising position on a hard night of partying?

The irony of a communist accusing me of having an idealistic plan..... but that aside (yes cheapshot, im sorry)

Heh, no, that's fine...but as a Libertarian Communist I don't claim to tell anyone that I know their body better than they do. I propose voluntary methods of attaining my goals. You're right that it's a little relevant.

if they are actually addicted, then they should still seek out rehab anyway. If they dont, then there are a variety of ways you can get them off the substance and forcefully into rehab: Cutting their universal healthcare is one option. Forcing hard drug addicts who cant controll themselves to go to rehab (if recommendeed by a medical professional) is preferable though.

I see. I don't have to tell you this is quite forceful; I think a forceful means of raising the numbers of addiction program entrants may be less than totally popular. I for one can't stomach the thought of addicts spiraling downward into disease with no one to help, and taking away healthcare from an addict for doing an obvious addict thing is honestly kind of abominable, and seems like directing the bull straight into the china shop from a public health perspective.

As for one hard night of partying..... thats not addiction. Thats one night

Exactly, they can still be caught by police and will often look just the same to an outsider. How do you propose to tell the difference well enough to feel justified having the government force the issue? (Still catching up, we had two pages burst forth while I was IRL.)

[Free South Califas]

Why would AQ be primary (or even a large) supplier of hard drugs if it is legal? Surely, someone would pick it up that producing those drugs within the nation is much cheaper than importing them from middle east, thus ensuring they can get higher revenue.

There is a limited amount of places that can produce raw opium on this earth. In any case, I am not supporting a policy which encourages new buisnesses to prop up with the sole intent of exploiting peoples addictions. All producers of Heroin are immoral anyway, regardless of legality

*checks pedometer*
Seems we've walked this goalpost a long way to get to the part where you're honest about your intentions. Morality indeed.

[Free South Califas]

Hello! Says Jack Davis, appearing out of the blue.
"I'm running for the Senate as a communist. Any other Commes here? Anyway, I'd like a Latte"

"The USLP and the CP caters to those tastes. I personally and more of a fan of USLP as they have a better sense of humor."

Hear that, boys? To the goolagz with this one!

[Byzantium Imperial]

I see. I don't have to tell you this is quite forceful; I think a forceful means of raising the numbers of addiction program entrants may be less than totally popular. I for one can't stomach the thought of addicts spiraling downward into disease with no one to help, and taking away healthcare from an addict for doing an obvious addict thing is honestly kind of abominable, and seems like directing the bull straight into the china shop from a public health perspective.

The restricting universal healthcare was proposed as a sort of last resort option, if the addict absolutly refuses any sort of treatment and doesnt have a very valid reason (some cases are special in that regard), however I really dont want to do that if I can avoid it. For one thing, that would require a small degree of enforcement.

However, if I had to guess, the population would certainly be quite relieved to hear that nobody will ever be going to jail (or as joked about earliar lined up against a wall) for a drug user offense. Rehab is supposed to help people, and there are a number of ways of improving the system. For one thing, I personally wouldnt mind footing some sort of lost income compensation package for those who have families which desperatly need the Addicts income, or letting addicts stay annonymous while in the system. Im not particularly draconian

As for one hard night of partying..... thats not addiction. Thats one night

Exactly, they can still be caught by police and will often look just the same to an outsider. How do you propose to tell the difference well enough to feel justified having the government force the issue? (Still catching up, we had two pages burst forth while I was IRL.)

Well, i did insert somewhere in my explanation "If determined by a medical professional". Most medical professionals can tell the differences between an addiction and just sampling based off how the person responded to the amount of substances they injested (while all cases are different, the general rule of thumbs is the better the person takes it, the more used to it they are). A tox screen compared with a few tests and just a general assesment of how the patient is responding is pretty effective in this regard

There is a limited amount of places that can produce raw opium on this earth. In any case, I am not supporting a policy which encourages new buisnesses to prop up with the sole intent of exploiting peoples addictions. All producers of Heroin are immoral anyway, regardless of legality

*checks pedometer*
Seems we've walked this goalpost a long way to get to the part where you're honest about your intentions. Morality indeed.

Yes my main is objection is moral. Hoever, its significantly more flexible then some (notice how im targeting 2 drugs in particular. most of the rest are fine and can be controlled with no problems).
Im less of the "Just say no" type and more of the "Stop causing me problems" type.

"The USLP and the CP caters to those tastes. I personally and more of a fan of USLP as they have a better sense of humor."

Hear that, boys? To the goolagz with this one!

Wait, not the gulag! I DONT LIKE THE COLD!!!!
Among other things you find in a gulag

[Oneracon]

So are there any plans for a Currency Act?

(Also, to the Admins, can we get a link in the archives thread to all the old passed laws in Chamber v2?)

[Byzantium Imperial]

So are there any plans for a Currency Act?

(Also, to the Admins, can we get a link in the archives thread to all the old passed laws in Chamber v2?)

Didnt we have a currency act or something? Along time ago someobody stuffed a currency act into the queue.... what happened to that?

[The Nihilistic view]

So are there any plans for a Currency Act?

(Also, to the Admins, can we get a link in the archives thread to all the old passed laws in Chamber v2?)

Didnt we have a currency act or something? Along time ago someobody stuffed a currency act into the queue.... what happened to that?

We have a passed currency, in the Financial Act of 2013. The admins are yet to put this in the archive though. It states our currency is the Aurentine credit unit I think and it value is 1ACU = .50 USD.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Didnt we have a currency act or something? Along time ago someobody stuffed a currency act into the queue.... what happened to that?

We have a passed currency, in the Financial Act of 2013. The admins are yet to put this in the archive though. It states our currency is the Aurentine credit unit I think and it value is 1ACU = .50 USD.

Oh well thats a pain in the ass. Its the opposite conversion of a pound basically.

[Oneracon]

Didnt we have a currency act or something? Along time ago someobody stuffed a currency act into the queue.... what happened to that?

We have a passed currency, in the Financial Act of 2013. The admins are yet to put this in the archive though. It states our currency is the Aurentine credit unit I think and it value is 1ACU = .50 USD.

Definitely seems to have gone out the window then, hasn't it.

[The Nihilistic view]

We have a passed currency, in the Financial Act of 2013. The admins are yet to put this in the archive though. It states our currency is the Aurentine credit unit I think and it value is 1ACU = .50 USD.

Definitely seems to have gone out the window then, hasn't it.

?

[Oneracon]

Definitely seems to have gone out the window then, hasn't it.

?

No bill written since the Finance Act includes any mention of said "credit unit" or amended previous legislation to indicate that it is an official currency.

[The Nihilistic view]

?

No bill written since the Finance Act includes any mention of said "credit unit" or amended previous legislation to indicate that it is an official currency.

Oh right, Yeah it seems people did not notice or bother to make the bills correct. It is quite berried in the bill and the bill is very long so I guess most people did not read it all.

[Oneracon]

Drafted as an interim solution to the conflicting currencies used in Aurentine laws and the existence of a legally defined currency (Article 4 of the Financial Act of 2013) which few seem to know of or acknowledge.

Currency Reference Interim Clarification Act
Urgency: High | Author: Oneracon [RG] | Category: Business and Finance
Co-sponsors: Yanalia [RG]

---

The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth,

DISMAYED at the current confusion over currency references in Aurentine laws;

AFFIRMING the need for either an officially named Aurentine currency, as a successor to the "Credit Unit" defined by the Finance Act of 2013, or a decision on the official use of a foreign currency;

FURTHER AFFIRMING the need for mass amendments to ensure all currency references will refer to this new currency arrangement;

NONETHELESS NOTING that an interim measure is required until such time as a decision is reached;

HEREBY enacts the following;

Usage of Pounds

1. All references to "pound" in relation to currency value shall be recognized as referring to the Pound Sterling (ISO 4217 currency code: GBP) and not another currency of a similar name.
2. Any usage of "£" in a currency value shall be recognized as denoting a value in Pounds Sterling (ISO 4217 currency code: GBP) and not in another currency which uses a similar currency sign.
   
   Usage of Dollars
3. All references to "dollar" in relation to currency value shall be recognized as referring to the United States Dollar (ISO 4217 currency code: USD) and not another currency of a similar name.
4. Any usage of "$" in a currency value shall be recognized as denoting a value in United States Dollars (ISO 4217 currency code: USD) and not in another currency which uses a similar currency sign.
   
   Status as Legal Tender
5. The Pound Sterling and United States Dollar shall be accepted as legal payment for all debts, public and private.
   
   Applicability
6. The provisions of this Act shall apply to the interpretation of all Acts passed by the Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth.

[Battlion]

What about euro's in addition to the dollar and pound? Seems pointless to exclude such a big currency (and the whole Eurozone) when we are located in Europe?

[The Nihilistic view]

What about euro's in addition to the dollar and pound? Seems pointless to exclude such a big currency (and the whole Eurozone) when we are located in Europe?

Is this serious?

[Battlion]

What about euro's in addition to the dollar and pound? Seems pointless to exclude such a big currency (and the whole Eurozone) when we are located in Europe?

Is this serious?

Unfortunately yes, whilst I dislike the Euro it'd be stupid to ignore it's existence when most of our neighbours use the Euro?

As long as this is temporary then this is a good idea, although it's something we could consider in the future for commercial tourist areas?