NSG Senate Coffee Shop: 50% off Americanos [NSG Senate]

[Ranbo]

That is a rather offensive equivalency, Senator.

I don't care if it is offensive. It is true. The Crusades, the inquisition, Jihad, etc. Organized religion is inherently evil. But people should still have a right to express religious views.

You are providing a generalization of all organized religions to be inherently evil. I have yet to see a Buddhist or Dao organization go 'rogue', if you will. Yes, there are certain black sheep, but this does not classify the actions of an entire religion. To that extent, I would like to remind you that jihadists, as much as some people would like to believe, do not make up the majority of Islam.

But enough with this detour. I believe the subject was drugs?

[Belmaria]

Then do not ban the substance. Go after the terrorists. If by banning heroin, you also ban the amount produced by non-terrorists, how is that fair? It is just like gun control legislation. Do not punish good people for the actions of criminals.

By the way, most of the rest of the worlds heroin is produced in neighboring PAKISTAN.
So, tell me, how do you propose obtaining this not Terror connected Heroin? It doesnt grow on trees you know.


And if 98% of a substance is produced by terrorists, then I dont give a shit about the remaining 2% who are making a living exploiting other peoples bad judgements and addictions. Those people should be ashamed of themselves anyway, and I will NEVER support a policy encouraging that.

Nannies gonna nanny

[The Nihilistic view]

Then do not ban the substance. Go after the terrorists. If by banning heroin, you also ban the amount produced by non-terrorists, how is that fair? It is just like gun control legislation. Do not punish good people for the actions of criminals.

By the way, most of the rest of the worlds heroin is produced in neighboring PAKISTAN.
So, tell me, how do you propose obtaining this not Terror connected Heroin? It doesnt grow on trees you know.


And if 98% of a substance is produced by terrorists, then I dont give a shit about the remaining 2% who are making a living exploiting other peoples bad judgements and addictions. Those people should be ashamed of themselves anyway, and I will NEVER support a policy encouraging that.

Hear, hear.

A fine statement Alex, the narcotics industry is thoroughly deplorable and deserves to be stamped out.

[Byzantium Imperial]

By the way, most of the rest of the worlds heroin is produced in neighboring PAKISTAN.
So, tell me, how do you propose obtaining this not Terror connected Heroin? It doesnt grow on trees you know.


And if 98% of a substance is produced by terrorists, then I dont give a shit about the remaining 2% who are making a living exploiting other peoples bad judgements and addictions. Those people should be ashamed of themselves anyway, and I will NEVER support a policy encouraging that.

Nannies gonna nanny

I could give a hyperbole, but its clear you dont have a real argument anymore and are just posting that because youve got nothing else.

[Free South Califas]

Is cocaine legal in this country?

Sadly yes, heroin too. Dispite my best efforts (im rewritting a bill to just target hard drugs at the moment)

I could possibly go so far as to help make it illegal to sell any psychoactive drug for profit, if such a compromise were needed. (Potentially. Depending on the details.)

Personally, I'm disturbed that you're so focused on raiding, shaming and punishing addicts for being addicted, instead of using some of all this power to actually help them.

[Belmaria]

Nannies gonna nanny

I could give a hyperbole, but its clear you dont have a real argument anymore

The only reason that criminals can profit from drugs is the fact that they are illegal. Drug addiction rates in the US were much lower in the early 1900's before they were banned.

[Free South Califas]

Anyone who wants to join the new Firearms Rights Organization is welcome to do so!

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=256336&p=15982046#p15982046

Please don't spam the Coffee Shop. I'm pretty sure the FRO's welcome is implied by the fact you can click on it in Forum 7 and go to the place where people join.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

By the way, most of the rest of the worlds heroin is produced in neighboring PAKISTAN.
So, tell me, how do you propose obtaining this not Terror connected Heroin? It doesnt grow on trees you know.


And if 98% of a substance is produced by terrorists, then I dont give a shit about the remaining 2% who are making a living exploiting other peoples bad judgements and addictions. Those people should be ashamed of themselves anyway, and I will NEVER support a policy encouraging that.

Hear, hear.

A fine statement Alex, the narcotics industry is thoroughly deplorable and deserves to be stamped out.

While I agree with Belmaria that government intervention in people's lives is outrageous, I have seen the dangers of heroin and cocaine first hand, so I support the creation of laws that make these drugs illegal.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Sadly yes, heroin too. Dispite my best efforts (im rewritting a bill to just target hard drugs at the moment)

I could possibly go so far as to help make it illegal to sell any psychoactive drug for profit, if such a compromise were needed. (Potentially. Depending on the details.)

Personally, I'm disturbed that you're so focused on raiding, shaming and punishing addicts for being addicted, instead of using some of all this power to actually help them.

Did you not read my "offer rehab" posts multiple times? Im trying to help people get off their addictions.

Drug rehab should be free and available to everyone, and confidential if nessesary.

[Free South Califas]

I will sponsor this bill.

I'm against any consumption taxes, as they take a disproportionate percentage of income from the poor.

This much, I agree with. However, I've sponsored it as a compromise. Malgrave has too, and he's against taxation entirely. I'm guessing the other Communist sponsor isn't completely fond of every aspect of the bill, either. It happens.

[Byzantium Imperial]

I could give a hyperbole, but its clear you dont have a real argument anymore

The only reason that criminals can profit from drugs is the fact that they are illegal. Drug addiction rates in the US were much lower in the early 1900's before they were banned.

Fun to note that before the 1900's, there was no easy way to obtain Marijuana, cocaine, or heroin in major cities. Nor did census/health system give a shit about it, nor was it possible to have any sort of accurate accoutning of such things.
Give a post ww1 source

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

I'm against any consumption taxes, as they take a disproportionate percentage of income from the poor.

This much, I agree with. However, I've sponsored it as a compromise. Malgrave has too, and he's against taxation entirely. I'm guessing the other Communist sponsor isn't completely fond of every aspect of the bill, either. It happens.

I am not really happy with the 50% tax rate limit, I think it should be way lower, but I accepted it too as a compromise for other stuff.
(Just realized that I posted that in the wrong thread. Sorry)

[Belmaria]

The only reason that criminals can profit from drugs is the fact that they are illegal. Drug addiction rates in the US were much lower in the early 1900's before they were banned.

Fun to note that before the 1900's, there was no easy way to obtain Marijuana, cocaine, or heroin in major cities. Nor did census/health system give a shit about it, nor was it possible to have any sort of accurate accoutning of such things.
Give a pre ww1 source

Probably because they're all being killed for BS reasons and don't have time to use the drugs in the first place, but let's just agree to disagree.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Fun to note that before the 1900's, there was no easy way to obtain Marijuana, cocaine, or heroin in major cities. Nor did census/health system give a shit about it, nor was it possible to have any sort of accurate accoutning of such things.
Give a pre ww1 source

Probably because they're all being killed for BS reasons and don't have time to use the drugs in the first place, but let's just agree to disagree.

Well wonderful, you just gave a counter to your own source: people were too busy with other things.

So by your logic, instead of restricting hard drugs, we should go back to the good old days of this and dont forget This
(you may wonder why i used a google search page instead of an actual source for the second. Mainly cause i wanted you to see just how many there were)

[The Nihilistic view]

The only reason that criminals can profit from drugs is the fact that they are illegal. Drug addiction rates in the US were much lower in the early 1900's before they were banned.

Fun to note that before the 1900's, there was no easy way to obtain Marijuana, cocaine, or heroin in major cities. Nor did census/health system give a shit about it, nor was it possible to have any sort of accurate accoutning of such things.
Give a pre ww1 source

I have a Pre WW1 example for the terrible effects widespread drug use can have on a people though. The opium addicted Chinese fueled by the British Empire. also cause the opium wars. Narcotics are nasty and designed to exploit those of a weak mind.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Fun to note that before the 1900's, there was no easy way to obtain Marijuana, cocaine, or heroin in major cities. Nor did census/health system give a shit about it, nor was it possible to have any sort of accurate accoutning of such things.
Give a pre ww1 source

I have a Pre WW1 example for the terrible effects widespread drug use can have on a people though. The opium addicted Chinese fueled by the British Empire. also cause the opium wars. Narcotics are nasty and designed to exploit those of a weak mind.

i meant post ww1, but yes this works wonderfully to refute any pre 1900's garbage

[Free South Califas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykvc20YpXAQ

You need to watch this informational, yet entertaining video.

We arnt proposing arresting drug users. Rehab is what users get. Thats the main problem with US policy.

That and weed makes up 50% of hte cartells profits, and most everyone on this forum wants that legalized

Oh good lord. Do you know anything about how cannabis is grown? Anyone with a consistent supply of electricity, an unused closet and $350 of equipment can easily grow enough to supply a dozen traumatized veterans. If they properly supervise the plant, they'll get stuff potent enough to be useful medicine, probably ten times better than anything that is possible to smuggle through some airport or past some other country's coast guard in meaningful quantity.

If we want to do something about gray-market imported cannabis, we should ban the transfer for profit of the stuff and institute price caps on the equipment and donation rates at dispensary collectives. I think we can let Rosie the Riveter relieve some stress with a joint between shifts if she wants to; just don't let anyone profit off the demand. Deal?

[Byzantium Imperial]

We arnt proposing arresting drug users. Rehab is what users get. Thats the main problem with US policy.

That and weed makes up 50% of hte cartells profits, and most everyone on this forum wants that legalized

Oh good lord. Do you know anything about how cannabis is grown? Anyone with a consistent supply of electricity, an unused closet and $350 of equipment can easily grow enough to supply a dozen traumatized veterans. If they properly supervise the plant, they'll get stuff potent enough to be useful medicine, probably ten times better than anything that is possible to smuggle through some airport or past some other country's coast guard in meaningful quantity.

If we want to do something about gray-market imported cannabis, we should ban the transfer for profit of the stuff and institute price caps on the equipment and donation rates at dispensary collectives. I think we can let Rosie the Riveter relieve some stress with a joint between shifts if she wants to; just don't let anyone profit off the demand.

I sortof merged two things into that one post, so i forgive you for misunderstanding me:
Canibas makes up 50% of cartel profits and anybody can really grow it, so there is no point in criminializing that, espessialy since it doesnt hurt anyone.

So dont worry Califas, Im PRO WEED. Im anti hard drugs, but im sorry i wasnt clear enough about the weed

[The Nihilistic view]

We arnt proposing arresting drug users. Rehab is what users get. Thats the main problem with US policy.

That and weed makes up 50% of hte cartells profits, and most everyone on this forum wants that legalized

Oh good lord. Do you know anything about how cannabis is grown? Anyone with a consistent supply of electricity, an unused closet and $350 of equipment can easily grow enough to supply a dozen traumatized veterans. If they properly supervise the plant, they'll get stuff potent enough to be useful medicine, probably ten times better than anything that is possible to smuggle through some airport or past some other country's coast guard in meaningful quantity.

If we want to do something about gray-market imported cannabis, we should ban the transfer for profit of the stuff and institute price caps on the equipment and donation rates at dispensary collectives. I think we can let Rosie the Riveter relieve some stress with a joint between shifts if she wants to; just don't let anyone profit off the demand. Deal?

If it stays legal profit making should be allowed Dam it! At least its legality would be a little useful to the economy. Though it would not anywhere near make up for all the negatives.

[Free South Califas]

Oh good lord. Do you know anything about how cannabis is grown? Anyone with a consistent supply of electricity, an unused closet and $350 of equipment can easily grow enough to supply a dozen traumatized veterans. If they properly supervise the plant, they'll get stuff potent enough to be useful medicine, probably ten times better than anything that is possible to smuggle through some airport or past some other country's coast guard in meaningful quantity.

If we want to do something about gray-market imported cannabis, we should ban the transfer for profit of the stuff and institute price caps on the equipment and donation rates at dispensary collectives. I think we can let Rosie the Riveter relieve some stress with a joint between shifts if she wants to; just don't let anyone profit off the demand. Deal?

If it stays legal profit making should be allowed Dam it! At least its legality would be a little useful to the economy. Though it would not anywhere near make up for all the negatives.

Who's "the economy"? If it's free meals for children, tax the equipment and the paraphernalia. If it's someone who already has enough capital to fund a new business...eh. If it's entrepeneurs, well, they can raise comfortable salaries as non-profit producers in collectives and such.

[Free South Califas]

Drugs induce people to go on and commit other crimes such as driving whilst intoxicated as well as theft, violent crime, rape and murder. innocent people suffer because of somebody else selfish behavior. It is not victimless.

So does Alcohol. One could also make the claim that guns enable murder. But alcohol and guns should not be banned.

Actually, only alcohol and PCP have been meaningfully linked to violence, and cannabis isn't known to affect driving more strongly than a single standard glass of wine, which is usually a legal degree of intoxication for the purpose. Narcotics and hallucinogens are a different story, of course, as far as driving goes.

[Free South Califas]

Legalization of drugs at least allows regulation. And at least people will be buying from well-lit stores instead of shady crack houses run by gangs.

Do you even have the slightest idea where most of the worlds heroin comes from:
"It is prevalent in heroin coming from Afghanistan... produced roughly 87% of the world supply in illicit raw opium"
opium, by the way, is really just heroin modelled to a different market.

That shit should never be legal. Its nothing short of arming the Islamist Jihadists

This argument is totally absurd. If you want to ban the import of that 87% of raw opium or its products, do that. If you want to ban things that specifically have been produced for Taliban profit, do that. If you want to ban something else, do that. Conflating the two won't help you win votes. By the way, your ignorance is showing - opium is a natural product of the drug, morphine is one of its psychoactive chemicals, and heroin is synthesized from morphine.

[Free South Califas]

I could possibly go so far as to help make it illegal to sell any psychoactive drug for profit, if such a compromise were needed. (Potentially. Depending on the details.)

Personally, I'm disturbed that you're so focused on raiding, shaming and punishing addicts for being addicted, instead of using some of all this power to actually help them.

Did you not read my "offer rehab" posts multiple times? Im trying to help people get off their addictions.

Drug rehab should be free and available to everyone, and confidential if nessesary.

And what happens if the user decides not to go along with this avuncular plan of yours, be they actually addicted or just caught in a compromising position on a hard night of partying?

[Byzantium Imperial]

Do you even have the slightest idea where most of the worlds heroin comes from:
"It is prevalent in heroin coming from Afghanistan... produced roughly 87% of the world supply in illicit raw opium"
opium, by the way, is really just heroin modelled to a different market.

That shit should never be legal. Its nothing short of arming the Islamist Jihadists

This argument is totally absurd. If you want to ban the import of that 87% of raw opium or its products, do that. If you want to ban things that specifically have been produced for Taliban profit, do that. If you want to ban something else, do that. Conflating the two won't help you win votes. By the way, your ignorance is showing - opium is a natural product of the drug, morphine is one of its psychoactive chemicals, and heroin is synthesized from morphine.

The word ILLICIT was present for the opium. And my point for it being moddeled to a different market remains completly valid anyway, as some people dont like the additive stuff.

And as i said before, most of the rest of the worlds heroin comes from neighboring Pakistan. Im not winning votes, I just acknolede its near impossible to get "non terror" heroin. And even if you did, the person you got it from is still exploiting people for their addictions, and we shouldnt be supporting their buisness.

Did you not read my "offer rehab" posts multiple times? Im trying to help people get off their addictions.

Drug rehab should be free and available to everyone, and confidential if nessesary.

And what happens if the user decides not to go along with this avuncular plan of yours, be they actually addicted or just caught in a compromising position on a hard night of partying?

The irony of a communist accusing me of having an idealistic plan..... but that aside (yes cheapshot, im sorry)

if they are actually addicted, then they should still seek out rehab anyway. If they dont, then there are a variety of ways you can get them off the substance and forcefully into rehab: Cutting their universal healthcare is one option. Forcing hard drug addicts who cant controll themselves to go to rehab (if recommendeed by a medical professional) is preferable though.

As for one hard night of partying..... thats not addiction. Thats one night

[The Nihilistic view]

Did you not read my "offer rehab" posts multiple times? Im trying to help people get off their addictions.

Drug rehab should be free and available to everyone, and confidential if nessesary.

And what happens if the user decides not to go along with this avuncular plan of yours, be they actually addicted or just caught in a compromising position on a hard night of partying?

Simple, the choice is rehab or prison.