NSG Senate Coffee Shop: 50% off Americanos [NSG Senate]

[Battlion]

I have no doubt many officer who are constrained by this have an opinion, let them have their opinion aye.

Being biased doesn't come from how you vote, it comes from your opinion. Unless we somehow ban PpTs from having opinions, we can't guarantee impartiality. Your bill makes no difference.

I'm not sure on that point to be fair..

[United Great Britian]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act
Category: Miscellaneous | Urgency: Low | Author: Prime Minister Robert Glasgia [MSP] | Sponsors: Great Nepal [NCP]

RECOGNISING: That the Ministry of Culture and Sports, alongside the Ministry of Customs, represents an unnecessary bureaucracy which could be far more efficiently handled by other departments within the government.

THEREFORE: Passes the Limitation of Bureaucracy Act to eliminate aforementioned unnecessary bureaucracy and create a more efficient government.


Article I.
Abolition of the Ministry of Culture and Sports
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Culture and Sports, striking the following line - "The Ministry of Culture and Sports, with the task of protecting the cultural heritage of the country, promoting cultural and sportive activities and expression, manage cultural and sports agencies and organizations." - from the Ministry Foundation Act and declaring that line to be null and void.
II. Transfers all powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports, that were involved in education related tasks, to the Ministry of Education and allows the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to allocate the appropriate funds for such a change
III. Therefore transcends all other powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to local governments, to be divided as the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports seems fit
IV. Recommends all employees displaced by such transfers for preference upon application for vacant positions in government, if they apply within their speciality

Article II.
Abolition of the Ministry of Customs
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Customs, declaring the executive order that established it to be null and void.
II. Establishes the Department of Customs and Immigration, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Interior
III. Transfers all powers, personnel and finances of the former Ministry of Customs to the Department of Customs and Immigration

STATING: That such transfers have already been established in practice through executive decree, but shall be immediately corrected if this bill is to be struck down.

My newest bill covers that.

[Great Nepal]

Thanks! Interesting idea there, which is of course correct in theory - Ministries are of course simply the delegation of tasks by the Prime Minister. However, some legislation should surely be in place to stop nutjobs like me from simply dissolving everything... Or at least making them fight a one-man battle (with aerial support offered by the Nepalese armed forces ) to defend such actions if they decide to.

Nepalese aerial support maybe provided if we can establish some sort of joint governance of the nation...
Seriously though, I think that issue will arise. No prime minister is realistically going to be able to abolish all (or even important) ministries because s/he will be tied by their coalition (member of which will want some seats in government in return for votes), stress of managing so many tasks and senate who wont be pleased with such concentration of power...

[United Great Britian]

Ministry Act of 2014
Author: United Great Britian (Independent) | Co-sponsors: | Category: Domestic Development | Urgency: High
RECOGNISING that ministries are delegations of power by the head of government.
BELIEVING that we can fix current legislation.
HEREBY strikes the "Ministry Foundation Act" null and void.
HEREBY mandates that the head of government may create or disband any ministry at their sole-discretion.
HEREBY mandates that any senator may move to disband a ministry that was created by the head of government. If that motion is seconded five times a vote will begin to disband that ministry.
HEREBY amends any place where the name of a ministry is stated to say in the place of that name, "a ministry decided by the head of government".

Any sponsors?

[The Nihilistic view]

Britanno, UGB, Nihil? Would you guys like to sponsor? Or criticise?

On the whole PpT thing, surely not voting will still not guarantee impartiality? The PpT will still have an opinion so even if the PpT doesn't vote, ze can still be biased. I fail to see how your bill solves the problem Battlion.

I would also like to retain Lamaredia as Minister of the Environment, as I am confident he can remain impartial as President Pro Tempore.

Ah, we will make you a free market libertarian yet!

Give it a while I may or may not have named it that ironically, considering we've been recently attacked by the right for supposedly being overly bureaucratic.

Well as I keep saying you don't need article 2. And I would merge telecoms with customs and sport not education. It makes more sense to me to have all forms of entertainment under one ministry and no sense to have some forms of entertainment under education.

[Britanno]

I think I might author a reformation of government act, I feel certain parts of our governance system are a little... outdated.

I find it surprising that we've survived off the old MFA for so long.

[The Nihilistic view]

No thanks Glasgia, if Culture doesn't deserve a ministry then neither does Business Safety or Research.

Personally, I am pushing for three mergers right now.

Telecoms, culture and sport.

Energy and Environment.

Labour and business safety.

[Battlion]

On the whole PpT thing, surely not voting will still not guarantee impartiality? The PpT will still have an opinion so even if the PpT doesn't vote, ze can still be biased. I fail to see how your bill solves the problem Battlion.

I would also still keep the threshold at 75%. At 60% it is within the realms of possibility that a well organised coalition in power with a few independents can prop up an impartial PpT. I would also say that a higher threshold has much more of an effect as a preventative measure than forcing people to not vote.

Aye, I will absolutely change it however I do think it's ridiculous that the fundamental rights of citizens can be removed by 2/3 of this Senate yet we can't elect our own PpT without 3/4 of the Senate.

[Britanno]

WHY ARE YOU STEALING ALL MY IDEAS?!

*looks at PC thread*

Ah shit.

[United Great Britian]

Ministry Act of 2014
Author: United Great Britian (Independent) | Co-sponsors: | Category: Domestic Development | Urgency: High
RECOGNISING that ministries are delegations of power by the head of government.
BELIEVING that we can fix current legislation.
HEREBY strikes the "Ministry Foundation Act" null and void.
HEREBY mandates that the head of government may create or disband any ministry at their sole-discretion.
HEREBY mandates that any senator may move to disband a ministry that was created by the head of government. If that motion is seconded five times a vote will begin to disband that ministry.
HEREBY amends any place where the name of a ministry is stated to say in the place of that name, "a ministry decided by the head of government".

This solves all of these mergers if the PM agrees.

[The Nihilistic view]

I would also still keep the threshold at 75%. At 60% it is within the realms of possibility that a well organised coalition in power with a few independents can prop up an impartial PpT. I would also say that a higher threshold has much more of an effect as a preventative measure than forcing people to not vote.

Aye, I will absolutely change it however I do think it's ridiculous that the fundamental rights of citizens can be removed by 2/3 of this Senate yet we can't elect our own PpT without 3/4 of the Senate.

But think of it this way, we need 3/4 to ensure the 2/3rds don't take liberties with the PpT and thus effecting the legitimacy of the rights. If the PpT can act more impartially then that effects the rights of citizens does it not? The more support need the greater chance of impartiality.

[United Great Britian]

Who is stealing your ideas?

[Battlion]

I have amended the PpT proposal in the chamber with the following changes.

• 75% Threshold returned
• Legislative Impartiality Lock has been removed and replaced with a general Impartiality lock but much weaker

OOC: When something like that happens again, maybe people will eventually see the need for a full lock.

[Macedonian Grand Empire]

Ministry Act of 2014
Author: United Great Britian (Independent) | Co-sponsors: | Category: Domestic Development | Urgency: High
RECOGNISING that ministries are delegations of power by the head of government.
BELIEVING that we can fix current legislation.
HEREBY strikes the "Ministry Foundation Act" null and void.
HEREBY mandates that the head of government may create or disband any ministry at their sole-discretion.
HEREBY mandates that any senator may move to disband a ministry that was created by the head of government. If that motion is seconded five times a vote will begin to disband that ministry.
HEREBY amends any place where the name of a ministry is stated to say in the place of that name, "a ministry decided by the head of government".

This solves all of these mergers if the PM agrees.

No. useless... A ministry created by law must be disbanded by law. The others that are created via executive order (those are done by the president) can be disbanded any time.

[The Nihilistic view]

I have amended the PpT proposal in the chamber with the following changes.

• 75% Threshold returned
• Legislative Impartiality Lock has been removed and replaced with a general Impartiality lock but much weaker

OOC: When something like that happens again, maybe people will eventually see the need for a full lock.

I don't believe section H is required anymore, that clause would efectivly give the PpT and SoS two votes if there is a tie.

[Battlion]

I have amended the PpT proposal in the chamber with the following changes.

• 75% Threshold returned
• Legislative Impartiality Lock has been removed and replaced with a general Impartiality lock but much weaker

OOC: When something like that happens again, maybe people will eventually see the need for a full lock.

I don't believe section H is required anymore, that clause would efectivly give the PpT and SoS two votes if there is a tie.

Changed, yay we will never have a mechanism for ties

EVER

[Britanno]

So this is my idea...

There would be the following ministries:

- Interior Ministry
- Foreign Ministry
- Labour Ministry
- Finance Ministry
- Education Ministry
- Health Ministry
- Defence Ministry
- Environment Ministry
- Culture Ministry

Then those ministries would each have certain people running them.

Interior Ministry:
- Interior Minister
- Immigration Minister
- Justice Minister

Foreign Ministry:
- Foreign Minister
- International Development Minister

Finance Ministry:
- Finance Minister
- Treasurer

Labour Ministry:
- Labour Minister
- Business Safety Minister

Education Ministry:
- Education Minister
- Young People's Minister

Health Ministry:
- Health Minister
- Some other role

Defence Ministry:
- Defence Minister
- Some other role

Environment Ministry:
- Environment Minister
- Energy Minister

Culture Ministry:
- Culture Minister
- Media Minister
- Sport Minister

Only the main ministers for each ministry would be in the cabinet, but the others would have a role in government. The extra roles would also not be mandated to be filled, but it would be strongly recommended.

Thoughts?

[Battlion]

I'd be in favour of that Brit, although Young Peoples Minister seems to put education as something solely for young people which really isn't true.

[The Nihilistic view]

I don't believe section H is required anymore, that clause would efectivly give the PpT and SoS two votes if there is a tie.

Changed, yay we will never have a mechanism for ties

EVER

We don't need one, ties are always failed. The requirement has always been 50%+1 for a bill to pass.

[Battlion]

Changed, yay we will never have a mechanism for ties

EVER

We don't need one, ties are always failed. The requirement has always been 50%+1 for a bill to pass.

Whether it's fair or not for ties to fail is another story if we could have a mechanism

[Glasgia]

No thanks Glasgia, if Culture doesn't deserve a ministry then neither does Business Safety or Research.

I believe Research most certainly does, appropriating research grants and watching over our scientific front, but we intend to merge Business Safety with Labour in future (we being me and Nihil, not the Progress Coalition - I'll have their opinions when people start to get online). Thanks for your opinions though.

I have amended the PpT proposal in the chamber with the following changes.

• 75% Threshold returned
• Legislative Impartiality Lock has been removed and replaced with a general Impartiality lock but much weaker

OOC: When something like that happens again, maybe people will eventually see the need for a full lock.

I don't believe section H is required anymore, that clause would efectivly give the PpT and SoS two votes if there is a tie.

I'd also support the removal of IIIc, as I do not believe Nihil's position in government degraded his impartiality nor do I think Lamaredia's position will.

[The Nihilistic view]

We don't need one, ties are always failed. The requirement has always been 50%+1 for a bill to pass.

Whether it's fair or not for ties to fail is another story if we could have a mechanism

Does a bill have majority support of the senate if the vote on it is tied?

[The Nihilistic view]

No thanks Glasgia, if Culture doesn't deserve a ministry then neither does Business Safety or Research.

I believe Research most certainly does, appropriating research grants and watching over our scientific front, but we intend to merge Business Safety with Labour in future (we being me and Nihil, not the Progress Coalition - I'll have their opinions when people start to get online). Thanks for your opinions though.

I don't believe section H is required anymore, that clause would efectivly give the PpT and SoS two votes if there is a tie.

I'd also support the removal of IIIc, as I do not believe Nihil's position in government degraded his impartiality nor do I think Lamaredia's position will.

Yes, I agree. I can't say being in both jobs ever crossed my mind at the time and after my time with Lam as my SoS I don't believe he will have any problems separating the two either.

[United Great Britian]

Ministry Act of 2014
Author: United Great Britian (Independent) | Co-sponsors: | Category: Domestic Development | Urgency: High
RECOGNISING that ministries are delegations of power by the head of government.
BELIEVING that we can fix current legislation.
HEREBY strikes the "Ministry Foundation Act" null and void.
HEREBY mandates that the head of government may create or disband any ministry at their sole-discretion.
HEREBY mandates that any senator may move to disband a ministry that was created by the head of government. If that motion is seconded five times a vote will begin to disband that ministry.
HEREBY amends any place where the name of a ministry is stated to say in the place of that name, "a ministry decided by the head of government".

Withdrawn.

[Battlion]

No thanks Glasgia, if Culture doesn't deserve a ministry then neither does Business Safety or Research.

I believe Research most certainly does, appropriating research grants and watching over our scientific front, but we intend to merge Business Safety with Labour in future (we being me and Nihil, not the Progress Coalition - I'll have their opinions when people start to get online). Thanks for your opinions though.

I don't believe section H is required anymore, that clause would efectivly give the PpT and SoS two votes if there is a tie.

I'd also support the removal of IIIc, as I do not believe Nihil's position in government degraded his impartiality nor do I think Lamaredia's position will.

It's a fair principle, PpT is a busy job...

I'm not so sure on removing this one, next we'll be saying the President can be PpT...

Don't want the proposal to be too deconstructed that nothing changes