NSG Senate Coffee Shop: 50% off Americanos [NSG Senate]

[United Great Britian]

I say that if it is a tie they may vote.

That's already in there

Oh. Where is the most recent version of the bill?

[Battlion]

That's already in there

Oh. Where is the most recent version of the bill?

I submitted it to the chamber

viewtopic.php?p=19522233#p19522233

The big issue people have, and I fully agree it's harsh, is that the PpT and SoS are required by the law to abstain on all legislation bar that in the senatorial procedures. Now I would be very happy to amend this, and some do claim this is unconstitutional however the constitution only says that Senators must be given the ability to vote. The Impartiality lock still gives them the ability to vote how they like when there is a tie, when it's a senatorial procedures category and damn all the time however they are required to abstain.

If anybody can suggest an impartiality lock that guarantees full impartiality then I shall welcome any amendment.

However, I might petition the admins/Supreme Court on whether they think the proposal would be legal (but again, not sure if it's in their remit)

[United Great Britian]

Oh. Where is the most recent version of the bill?

I submitted it to the chamber

viewtopic.php?p=19522233#p19522233

The big issue people have, and I fully agree it's harsh, is that the PpT and SoS are required by the law to abstain on all legislation bar that in the senatorial procedures. Now I would be very happy to amend this, and some do claim this is unconstitutional however the constitution only says that Senators must be given the ability to vote. The Impartiality lock still gives them the ability to vote how they like when there is a tie, when it's a senatorial procedures category and damn all the time however they are required to abstain.

If anybody can suggest an impartiality lock that guarantees full impartiality then I shall welcome any amendment.

However, I might petition the admins/Supreme Court on whether they think the proposal would be legal (but again, not sure if it's in their remit)

Thanks and they can decide the constitutionality.

[The Nihilistic view]

Oh. Where is the most recent version of the bill?

I submitted it to the chamber

viewtopic.php?p=19522233#p19522233

The big issue people have, and I fully agree it's harsh, is that the PpT and SoS are required by the law to abstain on all legislation bar that in the senatorial procedures. Now I would be very happy to amend this, and some do claim this is unconstitutional however the constitution only says that Senators must be given the ability to vote. The Impartiality lock still gives them the ability to vote how they like when there is a tie, when it's a senatorial procedures category and damn all the time however they are required to abstain.

If anybody can suggest an impartiality lock that guarantees full impartiality then I shall welcome any amendment.

However, I might petition the admins/Supreme Court on whether they think the proposal would be legal (but again, not sure if it's in their remit)

The vote the way Boris says act

Noting that some believe they can infringe on a senators right to vote on all legislation how they wish.

Believing that they are correct and that it is perfectly legal force senators to have to legally vote a certain way.

Hereby mandates that all senators must vote the way Lord Boris Johnson directs them or their vote will be illegal

[Battlion]

See, this is done across the globe already requiring presiding officers to not vote (I've at least written that you can vote, just abstain) so I'm not entirely sure what fear there is on this.

If anything that compels every senator to vote in a way that nihil jokingly suggested, the Senate would easily reject it however this affects two people who have agreed to do a job that requires impartiality and balance of judgement this proposal only locks it into law and I think the Senate should be wise to accept that this restriction, whilst regrettable, is required.

[The Nihilistic view]

It is a pretty simple principle, do all senators have the right to cast their vote how they chose or not. It does not matter whether one inch or one mile over this line we go, a right is a right and any infringement on it would be wrong.

OOC: There is also the OOC issue the whole point to this RP is to vote on a write bills, wish is why I believe that right is there in the first place. We should not be stopping people from doing the thing that this whole RP is based around.

[Battlion]

It is a pretty simple principle, do all senators have the right to cast their vote how they chose or not. It does not matter whether one inch or one mile over this line we go, a right is a right and any infringement on it would be wrong.

OOC: There is also the OOC issue the whole point to this RP is to vote on a write bills, wish is why I believe that right is there in the first place. We should not be stopping people from doing the thing that this whole RP is based around.

I've admitted the infringement is regrettable, many times.

However, abstaining is voting, having a free vote on senatorial procedures is voting, having a free vote in the event of a tie is voting there is no blocking of vote.

There is international precedent for this to occur, if it works for others why won't it work for us?


OOC: People agree to be the PpT or SoS, if they agree to it knowing these restrictions are there then they should be allowed to do so. However, they are allowed to vote as I keep saying

[The Nihilistic view]

It is a pretty simple principle, do all senators have the right to cast their vote how they chose or not. It does not matter whether one inch or one mile over this line we go, a right is a right and any infringement on it would be wrong.

OOC: There is also the OOC issue the whole point to this RP is to vote on a write bills, wish is why I believe that right is there in the first place. We should not be stopping people from doing the thing that this whole RP is based around.

I've admitted the infringement is regrettable, many times.

However, abstaining is voting, having a free vote on senatorial procedures is voting, having a free vote in the event of a tie is voting there is no blocking of vote.

There is international precedent for this to occur, if it works for others why won't it work for us?


OOC: People agree to be the PpT or SoS, if they agree to it knowing these restrictions are there then they should be allowed to do so. However, they are allowed to vote as I keep saying

So support my bill, all senators can still "vote".

If you regret it then remove it. That's what people do when they regret something, they change it if they can or wish they could if they don't have the power to change it.

If you regret it, it's time to put your mouth where our balls are and remove it.

[The New World Oceania]

It is a pretty simple principle, do all senators have the right to cast their vote how they chose or not. It does not matter whether one inch or one mile over this line we go, a right is a right and any infringement on it would be wrong.

OOC: There is also the OOC issue the whole point to this RP is to vote on a write bills, wish is why I believe that right is there in the first place. We should not be stopping people from doing the thing that this whole RP is based around.

I've admitted the infringement is regrettable, many times.

However, abstaining is voting, having a free vote on senatorial procedures is voting, having a free vote in the event of a tie is voting there is no blocking of vote.

With the District Act, ties cease to exist.

Also, what is the "Impartiality Lock?"

[Battlion]

I've admitted the infringement is regrettable, many times.

However, abstaining is voting, having a free vote on senatorial procedures is voting, having a free vote in the event of a tie is voting there is no blocking of vote.

There is international precedent for this to occur, if it works for others why won't it work for us?


OOC: People agree to be the PpT or SoS, if they agree to it knowing these restrictions are there then they should be allowed to do so. However, they are allowed to vote as I keep saying

So support my bill, all senators can still "vote".

If you regret it then remove it. That's what people do when they regret something, they change it if they can or wish they could if they don't have the power to change it.

If you regret it, it's time to put your mouth where our balls are and remove it.

IC: And when you can guarantee me that no President Pro Tempore of this Senate will ever abuse their power again like you did by blocking a confirmation vote for your own presidential ambitions will I happily remove it.

OOC: I'll think about it, I'm going to ask the admins to review it OOCly and let them decide on it. If they recommend a change then I'll do that.

ily really nihil

[The Nihilistic view]

So support my bill, all senators can still "vote".

If you regret it then remove it. That's what people do when they regret something, they change it if they can or wish they could if they don't have the power to change it.

If you regret it, it's time to put your mouth where our balls are and remove it.

IC: And when you can guarantee me that no President Pro Tempore of this Senate will ever abuse their power again like you did by blocking a confirmation vote for your own presidential ambitions will I happily remove it.

OOC: I'll think about it, I'm going to ask the admins to review it OOCly and let them decide on it. If they recommend a change then I'll do that.

ily really nihil

I was waiting for a proper confirmed result, that is still yet to happen. Also the people who matter know if I am right I was not going to be president anyway.

It's dodgeball man! A real life true underdog story. With lots of balls smashed into peoples faces.

[Glasgia]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act
Category: Miscellaneous | Urgency: Low | Author: Prime Minister Robert Glasgia [MSP] | Sponsors: Great Nepal [NCP], Senator Jameson T. Pace [Ind.]

RECOGNISING: That the Ministry of Culture and Sports, alongside the Ministry of Customs, represents an unnecessary bureaucracy which could be far more efficiently handled by other departments within the government.

THEREFORE: Passes the Limitation of Bureaucracy Act to eliminate aforementioned unnecessary bureaucracy and create a more efficient government.


Article I.
Abolition of the Ministry of Culture and Sports
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Culture and Sports, striking the following line - "The Ministry of Culture and Sports, with the task of protecting the cultural heritage of the country, promoting cultural and sportive activities and expression, manage cultural and sports agencies and organizations." - from the Ministry Foundation Act and declaring that line to be null and void.
II. Transfers all powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports, that were involved in education related tasks, to the Ministry of Education and allows the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to allocate the appropriate funds for such a change
III. Therefore transcends all other powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to local governments, to be divided as the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports seems fit
IV. Recommends all employees displaced by such transfers for preference upon application for vacant positions in government, if they apply within their speciality

Article II.
Abolition of the Ministry of Customs
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Customs, declaring the executive order that established it to be null and void.
II. Establishes the Department of Customs and Immigration, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Interior
III. Transfers all powers, personnel and finances of the former Ministry of Customs to the Department of Customs and Immigration

STATING: That such transfers have already been established in practice through executive decree, but shall be immediately corrected if this bill is to be struck down.

[United Great Britian]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act
Category: Miscellaneous | Urgency: Low | Author: Prime Minister Robert Glasgia [MSP] | Sponsors: None

RECOGNISING: That the Ministry of Culture and Sports, alongside the Ministry of Customs, represents an unnecessary bureaucracy which could be far more efficiently handled by other departments within the government.

THEREFORE: Passes the Limitation of Bureaucracy Act to eliminate aforementioned unnecessary bureaucracy and create a more efficient government.


Article I.
Abolition of the Ministry of Culture and Sports
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Culture and Sports, striking the following line - "The Ministry of Culture and Sports, with the task of protecting the cultural heritage of the country, promoting cultural and sportive activities and expression, manage cultural and sports agencies and organizations." - from the Ministry Foundation Act and declaring that line to be null and void.
II. Transfers all powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports, that were involved in education related tasks, to the Ministry of Education and allows the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to allocate the appropriate funds for such a change
III. Therefore transcends all other powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to local governments, to be divided as the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports seems fit
IV. Recommends all employees displaced by such transfers for preference upon application for vacant positions in government, if they apply within their speciality

Article II.
Abolition of the Ministry of Customs
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Customs, declaring the executive order that established it to be null and void.
II. Establishes the Department of Customs and Immigration, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Interior
III. Transfers all powers, personnel and finances of the former Ministry of Customs to the Department of Customs and Immigration

STATING: That such transfers have already been established in practice through executive decree, but shall be immediately corrected if this bill is to be struck down.

I would support if you remove the part about the Ministry of Culture and Sports. You must also state what will happen to programs that are under law part of either ministry.

[Great Nepal]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act
Category: Miscellaneous | Urgency: Low | Author: Prime Minister Robert Glasgia [MSP] | Sponsors: None

RECOGNISING: That the Ministry of Culture and Sports, alongside the Ministry of Customs, represents an unnecessary bureaucracy which could be far more efficiently handled by other departments within the government.

THEREFORE: Passes the Limitation of Bureaucracy Act to eliminate aforementioned unnecessary bureaucracy and create a more efficient government.


Article I.
Abolition of the Ministry of Culture and Sports
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Culture and Sports, striking the following line - "The Ministry of Culture and Sports, with the task of protecting the cultural heritage of the country, promoting cultural and sportive activities and expression, manage cultural and sports agencies and organizations." - from the Ministry Foundation Act and declaring that line to be null and void.
II. Transfers all powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports, that were involved in education related tasks, to the Ministry of Education and allows the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to allocate the appropriate funds for such a change
III. Therefore transcends all other powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to local governments, to be divided as the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports seems fit
IV. Recommends all employees displaced by such transfers for preference upon application for vacant positions in government, if they apply within their speciality

Article II.
Abolition of the Ministry of Customs
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Customs, declaring the executive order that established it to be null and void.
II. Establishes the Department of Customs and Immigration, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Interior
III. Transfers all powers, personnel and finances of the former Ministry of Customs to the Department of Customs and Immigration

STATING: That such transfers have already been established in practice through executive decree, but shall be immediately corrected if this bill is to be struck down.

I sponsor, although I must say I would rather see the entire bill establishing ministries struck down. Ministries are delegation of tasks by the prime minister as such existence or non existence of certain ministries should be within discretion of the reining government...

[Glasgia]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act
Category: Miscellaneous | Urgency: Low | Author: Prime Minister Robert Glasgia [MSP] | Sponsors: None

RECOGNISING: That the Ministry of Culture and Sports, alongside the Ministry of Customs, represents an unnecessary bureaucracy which could be far more efficiently handled by other departments within the government.

THEREFORE: Passes the Limitation of Bureaucracy Act to eliminate aforementioned unnecessary bureaucracy and create a more efficient government.


Article I.
Abolition of the Ministry of Culture and Sports
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Culture and Sports, striking the following line - "The Ministry of Culture and Sports, with the task of protecting the cultural heritage of the country, promoting cultural and sportive activities and expression, manage cultural and sports agencies and organizations." - from the Ministry Foundation Act and declaring that line to be null and void.
II. Transfers all powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports, that were involved in education related tasks, to the Ministry of Education and allows the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to allocate the appropriate funds for such a change
III. Therefore transcends all other powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to local governments, to be divided as the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports seems fit
IV. Recommends all employees displaced by such transfers for preference upon application for vacant positions in government, if they apply within their speciality

Article II.
Abolition of the Ministry of Customs
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Customs, declaring the executive order that established it to be null and void.
II. Establishes the Department of Customs and Immigration, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Interior
III. Transfers all powers, personnel and finances of the former Ministry of Customs to the Department of Customs and Immigration

STATING: That such transfers have already been established in practice through executive decree, but shall be immediately corrected if this bill is to be struck down.

I sponsor, although I must say I would rather see the entire bill establishing ministries struck down. Ministries are delegation of tasks by the prime minister as such existence or non existence of certain ministries should be within discretion of the reining government...

Thanks! Interesting idea there, which is of course correct in theory - Ministries are of course simply the delegation of tasks by the Prime Minister. However, some legislation should surely be in place to stop nutjobs like me from simply dissolving everything... Or at least making them fight a one-man battle (with aerial support offered by the Nepalese armed forces ) to defend such actions if they decide to.

[United Great Britian]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act
Category: Miscellaneous | Urgency: Low | Author: Prime Minister Robert Glasgia [MSP] | Sponsors: None

RECOGNISING: That the Ministry of Culture and Sports, alongside the Ministry of Customs, represents an unnecessary bureaucracy which could be far more efficiently handled by other departments within the government.

THEREFORE: Passes the Limitation of Bureaucracy Act to eliminate aforementioned unnecessary bureaucracy and create a more efficient government.


Article I.
Abolition of the Ministry of Culture and Sports
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Culture and Sports, striking the following line - "The Ministry of Culture and Sports, with the task of protecting the cultural heritage of the country, promoting cultural and sportive activities and expression, manage cultural and sports agencies and organizations." - from the Ministry Foundation Act and declaring that line to be null and void.
II. Transfers all powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports, that were involved in education related tasks, to the Ministry of Education and allows the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to allocate the appropriate funds for such a change
III. Therefore transcends all other powers and personnel of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports to local governments, to be divided as the leadership of the former Ministry of Culture and Sports seems fit
IV. Recommends all employees displaced by such transfers for preference upon application for vacant positions in government, if they apply within their speciality

Article II.
Abolition of the Ministry of Customs
I. Hereby dissolves the Ministry of Customs, declaring the executive order that established it to be null and void.
II. Establishes the Department of Customs and Immigration, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of the Interior
III. Transfers all powers, personnel and finances of the former Ministry of Customs to the Department of Customs and Immigration

STATING: That such transfers have already been established in practice through executive decree, but shall be immediately corrected if this bill is to be struck down.

I sponsor, although I must say I would rather see the entire bill establishing ministries struck down. Ministries are delegation of tasks by the prime minister as such existence or non existence of certain ministries should be within discretion of the reining government...

I would agree with that.

[United Great Britian]

Ministry Act of 2014
Author: United Great Britian (Independent) | Co-sponsors: | Category: Domestic Development | Urgency: High
RECOGNISING that ministries are delegations of power by the head of government.
BELIEVING that we can fix current legislation.
HEREBY strikes the "Ministry Foundation Act" null and void.
HEREBY mandates that the head of government may create or disband any ministry at their sole-discretion.
HEREBY mandates that any senator may move to disband a ministry that was created by the head of government. If that motion is seconded five times a vote will begin to disband that ministry.
HEREBY amends any place where the name of a ministry is stated to say in the place of that name, "a ministry decided by the head of government".

[The Nihilistic view]

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act

Ah, we will make you a free market libertarian yet!

[Britanno]

On the whole PpT thing, surely not voting will still not guarantee impartiality? The PpT will still have an opinion so even if the PpT doesn't vote, ze can still be biased. I fail to see how your bill solves the problem Battlion.

[United Great Britian]

Ministry Act of 2014
Author: United Great Britian (Independent) | Co-sponsors: | Category: Domestic Development | Urgency: High
RECOGNISING that ministries are delegations of power by the head of government.
BELIEVING that we can fix current legislation.
HEREBY strikes the "Ministry Foundation Act" null and void.
HEREBY mandates that the head of government may create or disband any ministry at their sole-discretion as long as it is approved by vote of the senate. That vote will take 24 hours and requires 50% + 1 of the senators voting to vote in favor for the ministry to be created.
HEREBY amends any place where the name of a ministry is stated to say in the place of that name, "a ministry decided by the head of government".

Any opinions or sponsors?

[Glasgia]

Britanno, UGB, Nihil? Would you guys like to sponsor? Or criticise?

On the whole PpT thing, surely not voting will still not guarantee impartiality? The PpT will still have an opinion so even if the PpT doesn't vote, ze can still be biased. I fail to see how your bill solves the problem Battlion.

I would also like to retain Lamaredia as Minister of the Environment, as I am confident he can remain impartial as President Pro Tempore.

Limitation of Bureaucracy Act

Ah, we will make you a free market libertarian yet!

Give it a while I may or may not have named it that ironically, considering we've been recently attacked by the right for supposedly being overly bureaucratic.

[Battlion]

On the whole PpT thing, surely not voting will still not guarantee impartiality? The PpT will still have an opinion so even if the PpT doesn't vote, ze can still be biased. I fail to see how your bill solves the problem Battlion.

I have no doubt many officer who are constrained by this have an opinion, let them have their opinion aye.

Anyway, can the admin look into the constitutionality of it for me on an informal OOC basis and not statutory interpretation?

[Britanno]

I have no doubt many officer who are constrained by this have an opinion, let them have their opinion aye.

Being biased doesn't come from how you vote, it comes from your opinion. Unless we somehow ban PpTs from having opinions, we can't guarantee impartiality. Your bill makes no difference.

[The Nihilistic view]

On the whole PpT thing, surely not voting will still not guarantee impartiality? The PpT will still have an opinion so even if the PpT doesn't vote, ze can still be biased. I fail to see how your bill solves the problem Battlion.

I would also still keep the threshold at 75%. At 60% it is within the realms of possibility that a well organised coalition in power with a few independents can prop up an impartial PpT. I would also say that a higher threshold has much more of an effect as a preventative measure than forcing people to not vote.

[Britanno]

No thanks Glasgia, if Culture doesn't deserve a ministry then neither does Business Safety or Research.