NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate]

[Geilinor]

Allow me to clarify: you mean Modern Liberalism (aka American Liberalism), which is a definition not used anywhere else in the world.

Really? So the Liberal Party of Canada, the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats in the EU, and the Liberal Democrats in the UK apparently don't exist?

They're social liberal, not just liberal. Classical liberalism, the original form of liberalism, is what Americans call libertarianism. Scandinavia is social democratic, which is a little step farther to the left(like the Labour Party or the NDP in Canada). On their countries' political systems, the Liberal Party and the Liberal Democrats are fairly centrist.

[Great Nepal]

Public Education Act

Proposed by: Greater Pokarnia (C)
Co-sponsored by: Costa Algeria (PC), The Realm of God (PC), Geilinor (LD), Zweite Alaje (NI)

1. A public educational system will be formed under the supervision of the Ministry of Education, which will provide free enrollment to people between the age of 5-18 studying in Primary Education and Secondary Education. (currently, the clause means if someone fails multiple times he wont get to study after age of 18 if they are still in primary education.)
2. It will mandatory for children to attend at least 10,500 instructional hours of school, be it at either public, private, or home school. Parents who knowingly prevent their children from meeting this requirement may be subject to fines of up to $10,000 for each 1,500 hours of school missed and 3 months of jail for each 1,500 hours of school missed.
3. Private schools and home schools must register with the Ministry of Education.
4. Public schools will be funded by the state, and it's employees are to be considered state employees.
5. The Ministry of Education shall be in charge of deciding the curriculum of all public schools.
6. A minimum curriculum shall be drafted by the Ministry of Education or senate for public school, private schools and home schools. Private schools and home schools may teach whatever they want so long as they teach the minimum curriculum. Subdistricts or school governors may expand upon this minimum curriculum. (curriculum must apply to public schools too. School governors themselves must also be allowed to expand on minimum curriclum.)
7. The Ministry of Education shall monitor private schools to ensure they are teaching the minimum curriculum. If they fail to do so they will lose recognition by the Ministry of Education and students may not meet their mandatory number of instructional by attending that school.
8. Employees of the Ministry of Education shall administer tests to home-schooled children every 3 months to ensure that they are being taught the minimum curriculum sufficiently. If they fail to pass these tests the home school will lose recognition from the Ministry of Education and student may not meet their mandatory number of instructional hours from that home school.
9. Nobody above the age of 20 may attend a public school.
10. Students attending public schools must enroll with the public education system before age 8.
11. No age restrictions are to be placed by the state onto private or home schools.
12. All recognized schools, be they public, private, or home schools, shall have 10 grade levels comprised of at least 1,050 instructional hours.
13. The Ministry of Education shall administer a Grade Advancement Test (GAT) at all recognized schools based on the minimum curriculum, which a student must pass before advancing to the next grade level.
13. The Ministry of Education shall provide funding to to public schools as they see fit, but there may never be larger than a 15% funding gap per student enrolled at public schools.
15. There shall be 5 days in the school week, each comprising of 7 hours of instruction per day. Lunch and recess don't count towards this number of hours. Schools must have at least 30 school weeks per year. This shall only be enforced at public schools.
16. Hereby allows students to avoid attending school for national and recognised religious holidays that will not be counted against a students attendance. This shall only be enforced at public schools. (just to ensure I dont invent some random religion and declare every day religious holiday )
17. Hereby places a total of 3 month interval between schooling years to occur at the beginning of June, to carry through the end of August. This shall only be enforced at public schools. (it needs to be total holiday in school years who can be distributed as school governors see fit).
18. Subdistricts may enforce their own educational standards so long as they do not conflict with the national standards and the minimum curriculum is still taught.
19. Subdistricts may enforce their own restrictions on private or home schools. (private schools is regulated enough by this act)

I would like to suggest above listed amendment with reasoning.

I agree to all of those except the changes to s19.

Change to s19 is mostly to ensure that private schools aren't illegalised in communist districts (de jure or de facto). This act in combination with Educational Framework Establishment Act already regulates ensures private schools are atleast upto same standards as public ones.

[Pyreneesia]

And yes point one is a a logical assumption but I don't see the issue with 7 hour school days I think it's more on what time school starts not the time you are in school. And I do support a year round school system.

What time would you prefer the school to start, and why would changing the time that the school starts change how tired the child is at the end of the day?

I remember when I was in school I would start to wake up around 9ish so 9:30 seems acceptable. And it's not about the fact that their tired as with anything work or school you will be tired after a 7 hour day. But it's to improve their focuse while in school And to have them better understand the material as they have had time to wake themselves up.

As for school days here are two articles one on Japan the other on Niger.

Japan
http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/explore/schools/q9.html

Niger
http://www.wes.org/ewenr/11aug/practical.htm

[Oneracon]

I agree to all of those except the changes to s19.

Change to s19 is mostly to ensure that private schools aren't illegalised in communist districts (de jure or de facto). This act in combination with Educational Framework Establishment Act already regulates ensures private schools are atleast upto same standards as public ones.

Bans and restrictions are not the same things.

I maintain that subdistricts are fully within their rights to place restrictions on private or home schools as they see fit.

[Great Nepal]

Change to s19 is mostly to ensure that private schools aren't illegalised in communist districts (de jure or de facto). This act in combination with Educational Framework Establishment Act already regulates ensures private schools are atleast upto same standards as public ones.

Bans and restrictions are not the same things.
I maintain that subdistricts are fully within their rights to place restrictions on private or home schools as they see fit.

They could de facto ban it by imposing stringent and unjustifiable restrictions like requiring £100,000,000 deposit to the state before private school can be set up etc.

[Oneracon]

Bans and restrictions are not the same things.
I maintain that subdistricts are fully within their rights to place restrictions on private or home schools as they see fit.

They could de facto ban it by imposing stringent and unjustifiable restrictions like requiring £100,000,000 deposit to the state before private school can be set up etc.

Well if they do, then obviously it is in line with the wishes of the people of the district.

[Fulflood]

Really? So the Liberal Party of Canada, the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats in the EU, and the Liberal Democrats in the UK apparently don't exist?

They're social liberal, not just liberal. Classical liberalism, the original form of liberalism, is what Americans call libertarianism. Scandinavia is social democratic, which is a little step farther to the left(like the Labour Party or the NDP in Canada). On their countries' political systems, the Liberal Party and the Liberal Democrats are fairly centrist.

I'd say the British Lib Dems are pretty social liberal.

Except Clegg.

[Pesda]

Public Education Act

Proposed by: Greater Pokarnia (C)
Co-sponsored by: Costa Algeria (PC), The Realm of God (PC), Geilinor (LD), Zweite Alaje (NI)

1. A public educational system will be formed under the supervision of the Ministry of Education, which will provide free enrollment to people between the age of 5-18 studying in Primary Education and Secondary Education. (currently, the clause means if someone fails multiple times he wont get to study after age of 18 if they are still in primary education.)
2. It will mandatory for children to attend at least 10,500 instructional hours of school, be it at either public, private, or home school. Parents who knowingly prevent their children from meeting this requirement may be subject to fines of up to $10,000 for each 1,500 hours of school missed and 3 months of jail for each 1,500 hours of school missed.
3. Private schools and home schools must register with the Ministry of Education.
4. Public schools will be funded by the state, and it's employees are to be considered state employees.
5. The Ministry of Education shall be in charge of deciding the curriculum of all public schools.
6. A minimum curriculum shall be drafted by the Ministry of Education or senate for public school, private schools and home schools. Private schools and home schools may teach whatever they want so long as they teach the minimum curriculum. Subdistricts or school governors may expand upon this minimum curriculum. (curriculum must apply to public schools too. School governors themselves must also be allowed to expand on minimum curriclum.)
7. The Ministry of Education shall monitor private schools to ensure they are teaching the minimum curriculum. If they fail to do so they will lose recognition by the Ministry of Education and students may not meet their mandatory number of instructional by attending that school.
8. Employees of the Ministry of Education shall administer tests to home-schooled children every 3 months to ensure that they are being taught the minimum curriculum sufficiently. If they fail to pass these tests the home school will lose recognition from the Ministry of Education and student may not meet their mandatory number of instructional hours from that home school.
9. Nobody above the age of 20 may attend a public school.
10. Students attending public schools must enroll with the public education system before age 8.
11. No age restrictions are to be placed by the state onto private or home schools.
12. All recognized schools, be they public, private, or home schools, shall have 10 grade levels comprised of at least 1,050 instructional hours.
13. The Ministry of Education shall administer a Grade Advancement Test (GAT) at all recognized schools based on the minimum curriculum, which a student must pass before advancing to the next grade level.
13. The Ministry of Education shall provide funding to to public schools as they see fit, but there may never be larger than a 15% funding gap per student enrolled at public schools.
15. There shall be 5 days in the school week, each comprising of 7 hours of instruction per day. Lunch and recess don't count towards this number of hours. Schools must have at least 30 school weeks per year. This shall only be enforced at public schools.
16. Hereby allows students to avoid attending school for national and recognised religious holidays that will not be counted against a students attendance. This shall only be enforced at public schools. (just to ensure I dont invent some random religion and declare every day religious holiday )
17. Hereby places a total of 3 month interval between schooling years to occur at the beginning of June, to carry through the end of August. This shall only be enforced at public schools. (it needs to be total holiday in school years who can be distributed as school governors see fit).
18. Subdistricts may enforce their own educational standards so long as they do not conflict with the national standards and the minimum curriculum is still taught.
19. Subdistricts may enforce their own restrictions on private or home schools. (private schools is regulated enough by this act)

I would like to suggest above listed amendment with reasoning.

I agree with the above amendments, except for the amendment concerning school holidays. The original bill allows 22 weeks of holidays (52 weeks in a year minus 30 school weeks) which makes more than three months of holidays. A better amendment would instead allow school governors to decide when the school weeks are, and reconsider how many school weeks we have (above I have suggested 35 or 42, so 17 or 10 weeks of school holidays, depending on how long we want the school day).

[Great Nepal]

I agree with the above amendments, except for the amendment concerning school holidays. The original bill allows 22 weeks of holidays (52 weeks in a year minus 30 school weeks) which makes more than three months of holidays. A better amendment would instead allow school governors to decide when the school weeks are, and reconsider how many school weeks we have (above I have suggested 35 or 42, so 17 or 10 weeks of school holidays, depending on how long we want the school day).

Oh, then that was supposed to be 22 week holiday in school week distributed as school governors see fit.

They could de facto ban it by imposing stringent and unjustifiable restrictions like requiring £100,000,000 deposit to the state before private school can be set up etc.

Well if they do, then obviously it is in line with the wishes of the people of the district.

Outlawing public school in hardcore capitalist reasons are also in line with wishes of people of the district, doesn't mean we should allow that.

[Oneracon]

Well if they do, then obviously it is in line with the wishes of the people of the district.

Outlawing public school in hardcore capitalist reasons are also in line with wishes of people of the district, doesn't mean we should allow that.

Yes, the difference being that outlawing public school leaves people who can't afford private school to suffer. Outlawing private school has no ill effects.

[Kouralia]

They're social liberal, not just liberal. Classical liberalism, the original form of liberalism, is what Americans call libertarianism. Scandinavia is social democratic, which is a little step farther to the left(like the Labour Party or the NDP in Canada). On their countries' political systems, the Liberal Party and the Liberal Democrats are fairly centrist.

I'd say the British Lib Dems are pretty social liberal.

Except Clegg.

He's what is known politically as a wanker.

[Great Nepal]

Outlawing public school in hardcore capitalist reasons are also in line with wishes of people of the district, doesn't mean we should allow that.

Yes, the difference being that outlawing public school leaves people who can't afford private school to suffer.

Not if they replace it with vouchers.

Outlawing private school has no ill effects.

It prevents free enterprise and forces everyone to learn as per government's requirement. Furthermore, as shown by international statistics, private schools usually do better than public ones so assuming same is the case, it prevents those who can afford to pay from getting better quality education.

[Oneracon]

Outlawing private school has no ill effects.

(1) It prevents free enterprise and forces everyone to learn as per government's requirement. Furthermore, [b](2) as shown by international statistics, private schools usually do better than public ones so assuming same is the case, it prevents those who can afford to pay from getting better quality education.

1. This bill already forces private schools to learn as per the government's requirement.
   
2. Yes.. yes of course. It's not like wealthy families are more likely to have access to all sorts of expensive academic help for their children, free time from only having to work one regular job, and more likely to have both parents with post-secondary education. That's not a confounding variable at all!

[Ainin]

The solution to the public school/private school performance divide is not banning private schools, but improving public schools. All you end up doing by banning private schools is making government expenses skyrocket, and deprive the state of tax money.

[Oneracon]

The solution to the public school/private school performance divide is not banning private schools, but improving public schools. All you end up doing by banning private schools is making government expenses skyrocket, and deprive the state of tax money.

No one is banning private schools.

[Pyreneesia]

The solution to the public school/private school performance divide is not banning private schools, but improving public schools. All you end up doing by banning private schools is making government expenses skyrocket, and deprive the state of tax money.

No one is banning private schools.

Then why was it even brought up in the first place?

[Great Nepal]

No one is banning private schools.

Then why was it even brought up in the first place?

Because bill in its current form allows for districts to effectively ban private schools.

[Ainin]

The solution to the public school/private school performance divide is not banning private schools, but improving public schools. All you end up doing by banning private schools is making government expenses skyrocket, and deprive the state of tax money.

No one is banning private schools.

Then why discuss it?

[Oneracon]

Then why was it even brought up in the first place?

Because bill in its current form allows for districts to effectively ban private schools.

From Senator Nepal's perspective, it seems to.

[Pyreneesia]

Then why was it even brought up in the first place?

Because bill in its current form allows for districts to effectively ban private schools.

No district will ban privet schools, it's an arbitrary think to do in the first place.

[Geilinor]

They're social liberal, not just liberal. Classical liberalism, the original form of liberalism, is what Americans call libertarianism. Scandinavia is social democratic, which is a little step farther to the left(like the Labour Party or the NDP in Canada). On their countries' political systems, the Liberal Party and the Liberal Democrats are fairly centrist.

I'd say the British Lib Dems are pretty social liberal.

Except Clegg.

That's true. The Liberal Party of Canada is pretty centrist now though, at least according to the Wiki page.

[Great Nepal]

Because bill in its current form allows for districts to effectively ban private schools.

No district will ban privet schools, it's an arbbatrary think to do in the first place.

Districts under control of communists or USLP will certainly do so.

Because bill in its current form allows for districts to effectively ban private schools.

From Senator Nepal's perspective, it seems to.

Its not from my perspective, its the letter that says effective banning it is allowed since it simply says "restrictions".

[Oneracon]

No district will ban privet schools, it's an arbbatrary think to do in the first place.

Districts under control of communists or USLP will certainly do so.

Oh no, the right-wing elites will be force to mix with the regulars.

The horror, Senator! The sheer horror!

[Geilinor]

Because bill in its current form allows for districts to effectively ban private schools.

From Senator Nepal's perspective, it seems to.

It doesn't say "private schools must be legal", but is that necessary for us to include?

[Ainin]

Districts under control of communists or USLP will certainly do so.

Oh no, the right-wing elites will be force to mix with the regulars.

The horror, Senator! The sheer horror!

> Implying only the elite attends private schools