NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate]

[Belmaria]

How so?

Because if we give all of the power of the economy to private financiers, we will end up in a situation no different than the United States, who suffers from nearly-crippling international debt and massive economic mood swings.

Allowing for central banking in the hands of the government, it can quell the most severe economic downturns, just look at nations that /do/ have central banking.

And if you look at the gold standard change over the last 3 years,

You'll see that the gold standard is very unstable.

No different from the United States? Are you serious senator? They are the pinnacle of the fiat system! Their currency is used as the world reserve currency! How is this evidence of any issue with bullion? If anything, this would only support our claims that bullion is much more stable!

[Belmaria]

Collapsing? They are higher now than they have been for the past 200 years! And the value will only skyrocket once we substantially increase the demand for it.

In number of dollars, yes. But the dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be, so gold value is actually in decline even though the "numerical monetary value" is increasing.

I have not read about this. Do you have sources?

[Mediciano]

In number of dollars, yes. But the dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be, so gold value is actually in decline even though the "numerical monetary value" is increasing.

I have not read about this. Do you have sources?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency

Look at from 1985-2013. Substantial decline.

[The Nihilistic view]

In number of dollars, yes. But the dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be, so gold value is actually in decline even though the "numerical monetary value" is increasing.

I have not read about this. Do you have sources?

Its called inflation. Eg if gold was $100 an ounce in 1900 and $1000 an ounce now in 1900 one ounce of gold is worth more as one can purchase more with it.

[Belmaria]

I have not read about this. Do you have sources?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency

Look at from 1985-2013. Substantial decline.

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/imag ... _chart.htm

Here is another chart that includes the nominal rate. You will find that the nominal rate increased substantially only recently, where as the boom of the 80's was doomed to be short lived due to a poor foundation. The current exchange rate for gold may be taking a temporary hit, but it will be back in the game very soon, rest assured.

EDIT: The rates have declined due to central banking. If we were to leave the markets alone, gold and silver, among other bullion, would soar.

[Wolfmanne]

Using the gold standard results in instability similar to Keynesian economics, except it's either a hit and miss and is based on the amount of gold a nation has. Having a fiet currency allows it to be regulated by the government based on general economic performance, in order to prevent inflation of the currency (in case you haven't realised, I'm a Monetarist).

[Ainin]

The rates have declined due to central banking. If we were to leave the markets alone, gold and silver, among other bullion, would soar.

Wut.

[Belmaria]

The rates have declined due to central banking. If we were to leave the markets alone, gold and silver, among other bullion, would soar.

Wut.

http://www.ibtimes.com/golds-worst-quar ... re-1328233

[Belmaria]

Using the gold standard results in instability similar to Keynesian economics, except it's either a hit and miss and is based on the amount of gold a nation has. Having a fiet currency allows it to be regulated by the government based on general economic performance, in order to prevent inflation of the currency (in case you haven't realised, I'm a Monetarist).

If by "regulated by the government based on general economic performance" you mean extremely low interest rates, bubbles, market collapses, and a repeat of the over-reactions that caused the bubbles and collapses to begin with, then you are correct and I agree with you. That's why I wrote the bill.

[Mediciano]

Wut.

http://www.ibtimes.com/golds-worst-quar ... re-1328233

International Business Times is literally the tabloid of the economic world. It's all opinion and baseless speculation.

[Belmaria]

http://www.ibtimes.com/golds-worst-quar ... re-1328233

International Business Times is literally the tabloid of the economic world. It's all opinion and baseless speculation.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100829827

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013 ... -inflation

http://moneymorning.com/2013/06/20/why- ... own-today/

[Mediciano]

International Business Times is literally the tabloid of the economic world. It's all opinion and baseless speculation.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100829827

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013 ... -inflation

http://moneymorning.com/2013/06/20/why- ... own-today/

These articles contradict your opinion that gold is a safe, stable basis for the Aurentine economy...

[Belmaria]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100829827

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013 ... -inflation

http://moneymorning.com/2013/06/20/why- ... own-today/

These articles contradict your opinion that gold is a safe, stable basis for the Aurentine economy...

They re-affirm the notion that central banking is having a negative effect on the world economy. If we continue to support such a system how can we claim to be a moral nation committed to economic progress?

[Living Freedom Land]

These articles contradict your opinion that gold is a safe, stable basis for the Aurentine economy...

They re-affirm the notion that central banking is having a negative effect on the world economy. If we continue to support such a system how can we claim to be a moral nation committed to economic progress?

Accepting your premise that central banking is mucking with gold prices, how can we accept a gold standard in this nation when every other nation is still making gold prices unstable? Surely the US Federal Reserve has more influence on gold prices than we'll have.

[Mediciano]

These articles contradict your opinion that gold is a safe, stable basis for the Aurentine economy...

They re-affirm the notion that central banking is having a negative effect on the world economy. If we continue to support such a system how can we claim to be a moral nation committed to economic progress?

Correlation does not imply causation. Just because gold prices crashed at the same time that all major countries have a central bank does not mean that the central banks are responsible. And is it progress to go back to an archaic standard for currency?

[Belmaria]

They re-affirm the notion that central banking is having a negative effect on the world economy. If we continue to support such a system how can we claim to be a moral nation committed to economic progress?

Correlation does not imply causation. Just because gold prices crashed at the same time that all major countries have a central bank does not mean that the central banks are responsible. And is it progress to go back to an archaic standard for currency?

It is progress to retract a policy that has caused great damage, just as it is progress to repeal laws banning same-sex marriages, or laws that allow banks to have monopolies. Some policies are just bad and need to be repealed.

[Belmaria]

They re-affirm the notion that central banking is having a negative effect on the world economy. If we continue to support such a system how can we claim to be a moral nation committed to economic progress?

Accepting your premise that central banking is mucking with gold prices, how can we accept a gold standard in this nation when every other nation is still making gold prices unstable? Surely the US Federal Reserve has more influence on gold prices than we'll have.

Someone will have to start dismantling this destructive system

[Lemanrussland]

Gold is not a suitable basis for a currency scheme.

The only advantage it offers is taking all discretionary power away from a central bank. It does not lead to price stability, it does not lead to financial stability.



While gold's value is relatively stable in the long term, it can be incredible unstable in the short term. This is because gold's supply (and thus the money supply, which would be tied to gold in any gold standard) is inelastic, it cannot adapt to changing circumstances in the macroeconomy. There will not only be a slow, grinding deflation which will put a damper on growth in normal conditions (since the growth of the economy outstrips the growth of the money supply, typically), but bouts of severe deflation and inflation, which can exacerbate or even trigger financial shocks and recessions, and which confuse price signals.

Many gold standard supporters are concerned about the "value of the dollar", that is, the effects of inflation in the long term. Even with relatively low inflation (3 percent), the value of currency can be eroded in the long term, which can eat at the value of savings. The solution to this is to allow people to invest into or buy things on their own as a hedge against inflation, instead of imposing a volatile monetary order onto the entire economy. The benefits of short and medium term price stability and the ability to react to financial panics and shocks outweigh any long term price stability.

[Belmaria]

Gold is not a suitable basis for a currency scheme.

The only advantage it offers is taking all discretionary power away from a central bank. It does not lead to price stability, it does not lead to financial stability.

(Image)

While gold's value is relatively stable in the long term, it can be incredible unstable in the short term. This is because gold's supply (and thus the money supply, which would be tied to gold in any gold standard) is inelastic, it cannot adapt to changing circumstances in the macroeconomy. There will not only be a slow, grinding deflation which will put a damper on growth in normal conditions (since the growth of the economy outstrips the growth of the money supply, typically), but bouts of severe deflation and inflation, which can exacerbate or even trigger financial shocks and recessions, and which confuse price signals.

Many gold standard supporters are concerned about the "value of the dollar", that is, the effects of inflation in the long term. Even with relatively low inflation (3 percent), the value of currency can be eroded in the long term, which can eat at the value of savings. The solution to this is to allow people to invest into or buy things on their own as a hedge against inflation, instead of imposing a volatile monetary order onto the entire economy. The benefits of short and medium term price stability and the ability to react to financial panics and shocks outweigh any long term price stability.

This does not address the critical flaw of fiat systems: dependency on debt. The fatal flaw of any fiat currency is the enormous debt required to pay for the economic stimulus and intervention. This will surely wreck our economy in the long run.

[The Nihilistic view]

Gold is not a suitable basis for a currency scheme.

The only advantage it offers is taking all discretionary power away from a central bank. It does not lead to price stability, it does not lead to financial stability.

(Image)

While gold's value is relatively stable in the long term, it can be incredible unstable in the short term. This is because gold's supply (and thus the money supply, which would be tied to gold in any gold standard) is inelastic, it cannot adapt to changing circumstances in the macroeconomy. There will not only be a slow, grinding deflation which will put a damper on growth in normal conditions (since the growth of the economy outstrips the growth of the money supply, typically), but bouts of severe deflation and inflation, which can exacerbate or even trigger financial shocks and recessions, and which confuse price signals.

Many gold standard supporters are concerned about the "value of the dollar", that is, the effects of inflation in the long term. Even with relatively low inflation (3 percent), the value of currency can be eroded in the long term, which can eat at the value of savings. The solution to this is to allow people to invest into or buy things on their own as a hedge against inflation, instead of imposing a volatile monetary order onto the entire economy. The benefits of short and medium term price stability and the ability to react to financial panics and shocks outweigh any long term price stability.

This does not address the critical flaw of fiat systems: dependency on debt. The fatal flaw of any fiat currency is the enormous debt required to pay for the economic stimulus and intervention. This will surely wreck our economy in the long run.

The fatal flaw is to couple it with socialist governments who bribe the electorate with ever higher spending. But really a gold standard would not stop them, they would still borrow money.

[Belmaria]

This does not address the critical flaw of fiat systems: dependency on debt. The fatal flaw of any fiat currency is the enormous debt required to pay for the economic stimulus and intervention. This will surely wreck our economy in the long run.

The fatal flaw is to couple it with socialist governments who bribe the electorate with ever higher spending. But really a gold standard would not stop them, they would still borrow money.

A gold standard would certainly reduce the ability of the government to borrow money.

[Free South Califas]

I motion for an amendment to the Food Service Sanitation Act.

Didn't you write it? Just change it.

Only with four co-sponsors. Sorry if late.

[The Grand Republic of Hannover]

The fatal flaw is to couple it with socialist governments who bribe the electorate with ever higher spending. But really a gold standard would not stop them, they would still borrow money.

A gold standard would certainly reduce the ability of the government to borrow money.

Why do we need to borrow money (or a lot of it) anyway? We should be having a budget that is balanced, in the first place. This proposal will only be the gateway to a huge debt and more economic problems

[Ainin]

These articles contradict your opinion that gold is a safe, stable basis for the Aurentine economy...

They re-affirm the notion that central banking is having a negative effect on the world economy. If we continue to support such a system how can we claim to be a moral nation committed to economic progress?

Texas Sharpshooter strikes again!

[Yanalia]

Didn't you write it? Just change it.

Only with four co-sponsors. Sorry if late.

I think we let authors change their bills regardless. Like Wolf with the UHA.