NSG Senate Coffee Shop [NSG Senate]

[The Republic of Lanos]

You support legislation that takes away our guns and freedom of speech and expect us to just be happy?

If you bother to check, I am against the srs gun control ideas because they are too restrictive.

[Aquitayne]

I will not support any piece of legislation that fractures the sovereignty of the nation.

It doesn't fracture the nation's sovereignty. The Senate's laws and taxes will still have effect.

Then explain this idea of a "semi-autonomous" zone, it sounds pretty much like a State or Province.

[Yanalia]

*sigh* New Sea says I want to kill liberty because I'm tired of this whole crap and CTALNH is throwing a fit.

Guys, stop this shit. For the sake of everything.

What if I believe liberty IS everything? So stopping would not be for the sake of everything.

You support legislation that takes away our guns and freedom of speech and expect us to just be happy?

I, for one, do not support the Firearms Act. But thanks for generalizing about all people who oppose your little minarchist fantasy.

[The New Sea Territory]

*sigh* New Sea says I want to kill liberty because I'm tired of this whole crap and CTALNH is throwing a fit.

Guys, stop this shit. For the sake of everything.

^this. Really, you all sound like a bunch of little kids trying to tell mommy and daddy the other one did it.

So, what you are saying is you want us to stop expressing ourselves?

So you do not stand for the freedom of expression, basically the key point of any democratic rule?

[The New Sea Territory]

It doesn't fracture the nation's sovereignty. The Senate's laws and taxes will still have effect.

Then explain this idea of a "semi-autonomous" zone, it sounds pretty much like a State or Province.

You could read the Act here:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate. The exception to this rule will be if an appeal is made, and 80% of the popular votes are for nullification of legislation for the SA-Zone, that is shall be not in affect for the area.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

[CTALNH]

No I didn't actually I expressed a political view by asking a rhetorical question. Thats what free speech means.

I didn't slander nobody.

But they believe if they are targeted it is slander. Don't even attempt to argue with him; he'll just say he's ignoring you.

Then shit because if everybody does that then we are in a omni present police state.

[The New Sea Territory]

What if I believe liberty IS everything? So stopping would not be for the sake of everything.

You support legislation that takes away our guns and freedom of speech and expect us to just be happy?

I, for one, do not support the Firearms Act. But thanks for generalizing about all people who oppose your little minarchist fantasy.

Well, thank you. You stand for liberty in one sense or another. There's a spark of hope.

But, I am not saying you are, just some of those who want to take away our guns and expect us to be content with that,

[Aquitayne]

Then explain this idea of a "semi-autonomous" zone, it sounds pretty much like a State or Province.

You could read the Act here:

I have read the Act, and I reiterate, it just sounds like a State or Province.

[The Republic of Lanos]

^this. Really, you all sound like a bunch of little kids trying to tell mommy and daddy the other one did it.

So, what you are saying is you want us to stop expressing ourselves?

So you do not stand for the freedom of expression, basically the key point of any democratic rule?

Expression is fine. Bitching constantly about people not wanting your ideas and generalizing that everyone that doesn't want to listen to you as hating freedom, democracy, and justice is not fine.

[Aquitayne]

^this. Really, you all sound like a bunch of little kids trying to tell mommy and daddy the other one did it.

So, what you are saying is you want us to stop expressing ourselves?

So you do not stand for the freedom of expression, basically the key point of any democratic rule?

Don't put words into my mouth.

I'm simply saying that the argument is going nowhere and there's really no point to it, so there's no reason to continue useless bickering.

[The New Sea Territory]

You could read the Act here:

I have read the Act, and I reiterate, it just sounds like a State or Province.

It's a state that essentially governs itself and is represented in the Senate. It pays taxes from the state to the Federal government for it's semi-autonomy.

[CTALNH]

So, what you are saying is you want us to stop expressing ourselves?

So you do not stand for the freedom of expression, basically the key point of any democratic rule?

Expression is fine. Bitching constantly about people not wanting your ideas and generalizing that everyone that doesn't want to listen to you as hating freedom, democracy, and justice is not fine.

Welcome to democracy.

[The New Sea Territory]

So, what you are saying is you want us to stop expressing ourselves?

So you do not stand for the freedom of expression, basically the key point of any democratic rule?

Expression is fine. Bitching constantly about people not wanting your ideas and generalizing that everyone that doesn't want to listen to you as hating freedom, democracy, and justice is not fine.

But I have the freedom to express my idea that you do hate freedom by wanting me to shut up, and suppress the freedom of speech? So you really don't believe in freedom.

[The New Sea Territory]

Expression is fine. Bitching constantly about people not wanting your ideas and generalizing that everyone that doesn't want to listen to you as hating freedom, democracy, and justice is not fine.

Welcome to democracy.

The OP said "Democracy at it's worst".

[Mishmahig]

Then explain this idea of a "semi-autonomous" zone, it sounds pretty much like a State or Province.

You could read the Act here:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate. The exception to this rule will be if an appeal is made, and 80% of the popular votes are for nullification of legislation for the SA-Zone, that is shall be not in affect for the area.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

Opposed. A state should not have the power to nullify the will of the rest of the country (through those elected Senators) within its own borders. We are a country, not a collection of communities, and our laws should apply equally to all.

[Yootoepia]

Expression is fine. Bitching constantly about people not wanting your ideas and generalizing that everyone that doesn't want to listen to you as hating freedom, democracy, and justice is not fine.

But I have the freedom to express my idea that you do hate freedom by wanting me to shut up, and suppress the freedom of speech? So you really don't believe in freedom.

Wow. This escalated.

[CTALNH]

Welcome to democracy.

The OP said "Democracy at it's worst".

Thanks for sum it up OP.

[Aquitayne]

I have read the Act, and I reiterate, it just sounds like a State or Province.

It's a state that essentially governs itself and is represented in the Senate. It pays taxes from the state to the Federal government for it's semi-autonomy.

So why not draft the bill to create guidelines as to the entire nation for States and such? Why is "Galt's Gulch" so special?

[NSG Senate Administrators]

If we aren't discussing a proposed bill, stop arguing now. Thank you.

[Yootoepia]

You could read the Act here:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate. The exception to this rule will be if an appeal is made, and 80% of the popular votes are for nullification of legislation for the SA-Zone, that is shall be not in affect for the area.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

Opposed. A state should not have the power to nullify the will of the rest of the country (through those elected Senators) within its own borders. We are a country, not a collection of communities, and our laws should apply equally to all.

After reading, isn't that the Un-edited version?

This is the current version without the Nullification clause:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

[CTALNH]

If we aren't discussing a proposed bill, stop arguing now. Thank you.

Actually we are.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Expression is fine. Bitching constantly about people not wanting your ideas and generalizing that everyone that doesn't want to listen to you as hating freedom, democracy, and justice is not fine.

But I have the freedom to express my idea that you do hate freedom by wanting me to shut up, and suppress the freedom of speech? So you really don't believe in freedom.

The only thing you're making me do is consider you to not be considered serious in any form or fashion.

Stop putting words in my mouth and stop saying those opposed to you are against freedom of speech. That can be called slander.

[Yootoepia]

After reading, isn't that the Un-edited version?

This is the current version without the Nullification clause:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

I will sponsor this.

[Mishmahig]

Opposed. A state should not have the power to nullify the will of the rest of the country (through those elected Senators) within its own borders. We are a country, not a collection of communities, and our laws should apply equally to all.

After reading, isn't that the Un-edited version?

This is the current version without the Nullification clause:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

Then, senator, I fail to see why anyone would agree to pay an extra 10% in taxes for.....no benefit I can see...

[Yootoepia]

After reading, isn't that the Un-edited version?

This is the current version without the Nullification clause:

Semi-Autonomous Zone Creation Act

Drafted by: The New Sea Territory

Sponsors:

Realizing that the people of the "Galt's Gulch" area, which is about four subdistricts, and the surrounding area, wish to create a semi-autonomous state.

Further Realizing that all of these subdistricts have Objectivist Party representatives and large objectivist movements. These leaders are the forefront of the Semi-Autonomous movement as a peaceful way to govern the way their people seem to want, but can not do so because of lack of support in the Senate. The Gulch area wishes to govern according to a more minarchic agenda without openly defying the entire country. These Senators include:

Galt's Gulch
•The New Sea Territory
•Yootoepia
•Apocrypha24
•North-West Molovsky

Other Neighboring Subdistricts
•Liberosia
•Snabagag
•West Florida


Understanding that this will not exempt the semi-autonomous zone from taxation or representation in the Senate.

Further Understanding that the SA-Zone will be required to recognize laws set forth by the Senate, and obey the Senate's rulings that target it.

Declaring that the seven total subdistricts, four that make up the Gulch and three that wish to be included and have backing for it, will be considered the Semi-Autonomous Zone.

Allowing the semi-autonomous zone to pass legislation independently, so long as it does not openly contradict the Senate.

Further Allowing the SA-Zone to collect it's own taxes on top of Federal taxes, and allowing the zone to select the methods of collecting taxes (income tax, sales tax, consumption tax, etc.) The SA-Zone may also accept gold and silver coins as a legal tender, since much of the population already does so.

Requiring that citizens of the SA-Zone pay 10% extra in taxes (with it's choice of how to collect said taxes). The governing body of the zone will be held accountable if extra taxes are not paid directly to the Senate. These taxes must be paid in the state currency.

Recognizing that the SA-Zone as self-governing, and that is is still part of our nation, so open borders will be an absolute requirement.

Permitting the semi-autonomous zone to have it's own state militia as a state guard. This militia will not receive funding from the rest of the nation, and must be entirely funded by the citizens of the SA-Zone.

Hereby Creates the Galt's Gulch SA-Zone. The Zone will include seven subdistricts of neighboring lands that surround the Gulch.

Then, senator, I fail to see why anyone would agree to pay an extra 10% in taxes for.....no benefit I can see...

It's a compromise we pay for our semi-autonomy, which is what New Sea was implying.