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DuThaal Craftworld
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1258
Founded: Feb 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby DuThaal Craftworld » Tue May 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Yanalia wrote:
DuThaal Craftworld wrote:It's just there to try and make it more difficult to get rid of by other parties at later dates.


That's what I thought. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but I would oppose that. Not very democratic.

Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).
Last edited by DuThaal Craftworld on Tue May 07, 2013 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yanalia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1197
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Yanalia » Tue May 07, 2013 10:52 pm

Disregard
Last edited by Yanalia on Wed May 08, 2013 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Economic Left/Right: -9.12
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Imperiatom
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Tue May 07, 2013 11:11 pm

DuThaal Craftworld wrote:
Yanalia wrote:
That's what I thought. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but I would oppose that. Not very democratic.

Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).


2.3 and 1.0 The right to have artillery? Is this for real?

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Aeken
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17135
Founded: Feb 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aeken » Tue May 07, 2013 11:12 pm

Imperiatom wrote:
DuThaal Craftworld wrote:Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).


2.3 and 1.0 The right to have artillery? Is this for real?

I concur. Or I interpreted it incorrectly. Elaborate please.

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Tue May 07, 2013 11:14 pm

DuThaal Craftworld wrote:
Yanalia wrote:
That's what I thought. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but I would oppose that. Not very democratic.

Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).

Against, there is absolutely no provision to regulate weapons sale and as it stands allows indivudals to own artillery and bombs.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Tue May 07, 2013 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Imperiatom
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Tue May 07, 2013 11:19 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
DuThaal Craftworld wrote:Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).

Against, there is absolutely no provision to regulate weapons sale and as it stands allows indivudals to own artillery and bombs.



I see why the bill is so rubbish. It is being proposed by a member of a party with paramilitary affiliations.

User avatar
Imperiatom
Minister
 
Posts: 2416
Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Tue May 07, 2013 11:20 pm


User avatar
Seelelander
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: May 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Seelelander » Tue May 07, 2013 11:59 pm

DuThaal Craftworld wrote:
Yanalia wrote:
That's what I thought. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but I would oppose that. Not very democratic.

Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).


Supported by me. I am also willing to co sponsor should you need bilateral support.
Last edited by Seelelander on Wed May 08, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed May 08, 2013 12:02 am

Wolfmanne wrote:
CTALNH wrote:See my father is more conservative than the conservative party of the UK

and his a socialist

No, he's just proven himself to be a very silly man.

That may be the case actually.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed May 08, 2013 12:08 am

Seelelander wrote:
DuThaal Craftworld wrote:Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).


Supported by me. I am also willing to co sponsor should you need bilateral support.

I will sponsor it AND I am for
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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Mishmahig
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9032
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mishmahig » Wed May 08, 2013 12:15 am

CTALNH wrote:
Seelelander wrote:
Supported by me. I am also willing to co sponsor should you need bilateral support.

I will sponsor it AND I am for


I beg your pardon, but could you clarify this for me?

Does this bill seriously give people the right to artillery weapons?

Also, your bill seems to contradict itself by saying:

No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned


but then later says:

Upon and after detonation, it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment


Please clarify.

User avatar
Seelelander
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: May 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Seelelander » Wed May 08, 2013 12:19 am

Does this bill seriously give people the right to artillery weapons?


Of course it does, every private military corporation would agree this is needed to conduct basic operations.

Also I believe the wording describes LASTING effect. While something may possess an instantaneous effect, anything that leaves a lasting effect would be banned as per "Upon and after detonation, it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment"

An example of this would be nuclear and radiological material. It forbids dirty bombs.

User avatar
Mishmahig
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9032
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mishmahig » Wed May 08, 2013 12:21 am

Seelelander wrote:
Does this bill seriously give people the right to artillery weapons?


Of course it does, every private military corporation would agree this is needed to conduct basic operations.

Also I believe the wording describes LASTING effect. While something may possess an instantaneous effect, anything that leaves a lasting effect would be banned as per "Upon and after detonation, it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment"

An example of this would be nuclear and radiological material. It forbids dirty bombs.


Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Actually, I have a question, re-reading the bill. Where exactly does it ban anything? I see a listing of consequences, should a crime be committed with a weapon, but I don't really see any restrictions on any weapons people can use.

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed May 08, 2013 12:26 am

Mishmahig wrote:
Seelelander wrote:
Of course it does, every private military corporation would agree this is needed to conduct basic operations.

Also I believe the wording describes LASTING effect. While something may possess an instantaneous effect, anything that leaves a lasting effect would be banned as per "Upon and after detonation, it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment"

An example of this would be nuclear and radiological material. It forbids dirty bombs.


Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Actually, I have a question, re-reading the bill. Where exactly does it ban anything? I see a listing of consequences, should a crime be committed with a weapon, but I don't really see any restrictions on any weapons people can use.

Why should we restrict what the people can buy?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Irredento
Envoy
 
Posts: 313
Founded: Mar 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Irredento » Wed May 08, 2013 12:27 am

Mishmahig wrote:Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Why is this a bad thing? Why should a corporation be able to use such weapons if not an individual?

User avatar
Fulflood
Diplomat
 
Posts: 645
Founded: Dec 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fulflood » Wed May 08, 2013 12:27 am

DuThaal Craftworld wrote:
Yanalia wrote:
That's what I thought. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but I would oppose that. Not very democratic.

Okay. I'll edit that out then.
Edited out.
Urgency: Very High

Drafted by: DuThaal Craftworld

Co-Sponsored by: Hathradic States & the party he is Chairman of.

Recognizing the right of the people to bear weaponry,

Noting that this has become a center of controversy within the senate as of late,

Recommending the Senate to adopt this bill in order to ensure the integrity of the Nation,

Hereby puts the following into effect;
1.0:Statement; The right of the people to possess, use and carry firearms shall not be infringed by any state, federal or other governmental authority. And while the right of the people to bear low-power explosives/artillery may be infringed, it shall not be prohibited in most circumstances*. Also not infringed is the right of the people to affix these weapons upon any frame that they wish, so long as they have the consent of the object’s owner.
2.0:Definitions;
2.1:Firearms; Any weapon with a projectile diameter of less than twelve point 7 (12.7) millimeters, a projectile length of less than four (4) centimeters, and utilizes a short combustion cycle to propel said projectile out of the weapon and towards a target. The exception to this is shotgun shells/rounds/calibres, which may be of any size applicable for their purpose. These defined firearms may take the form of pistols, rifles, shotguns and large ‘sniper’ rifles. If the ammunition carries over 1/4 ounce of explosive or 4 ounces of propellant then it is governed as artillery/low power explosives. No harmful (read; toxic/otherwise dangerous) biological or chemical elements are banned, as seen later within this bill.
2.2:Low-power explosives; are any explosive material with an explosive force of less than ten kilograms (22 pounds) when shaped into a regular cube measuring 1cm3 before detonation. Upon and after detonation it may not leave behind any harmful chemical, biological or radiological residue/effects upon the environment.
2.3:Artillery;, for the purpose of this bill, to be any weapon with a projectile diameter above 6.35 centimeters.
2.4:Circumstances under which a member of the populace’s right to bear low power exposives and artillery; as legal charges. Unless otherwise stated, instant confiscation, a ban from owning such weapons again and selling the confiscated materials back onto the free market is the penalty. The legal charges applicable are as such; conspiracy to commit murder (with the weapon(s)), manslaughter (four month suspension, official training upon proper use), murder (with the weapon(s)), armed robbery (with the weapon(s)), rape (wherein the weapon(s) were used to coerce the raped party) or property destruction (with the weapon(s)).

Yeah, it's not really a right to own an arsenal of snipers and cannons, so I disagree pretty much from before point 1.0.
I go under the name Vyvland now (IIWiki page). This account is used for the odd foray into the Senate or NSG.
Straight male British apatheist pacifist environmentalist social liberal

Admin, New Democrat member for Lüborg (504) and ambassador to the Red-Greens in the Aurentine Senate. Minister of Business Safety of Aurentina. Apparently that deserves a ministry, but I'm not complaining. I'm probably none of these things anymore. | The Aurentine Phrasebook, my magnum opus.

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Mishmahig
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9032
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mishmahig » Wed May 08, 2013 12:27 am

CTALNH wrote:
Mishmahig wrote:
Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Actually, I have a question, re-reading the bill. Where exactly does it ban anything? I see a listing of consequences, should a crime be committed with a weapon, but I don't really see any restrictions on any weapons people can use.

Why should we restrict what the people can buy?


Why should we restrict dangerous weapons that people can use to kill other people?

Really, Senator?

What possible use would the average citizen have for artillery?

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CTALNH
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Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
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Postby CTALNH » Wed May 08, 2013 12:28 am

Irredento wrote:
Mishmahig wrote:Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Why is this a bad thing? Why should a corporation be able to use such weapons if not an individual?

Because you know they need guns to crack down on the strikers and if the strikers have guns too its gonna be impossible.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
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S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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CTALNH
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Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Wed May 08, 2013 12:29 am

Mishmahig wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Why should we restrict what the people can buy?


Why should we restrict dangerous weapons that people can use to kill other people?

Really, Senator?

What possible use would the average citizen have for artillery?

To shoot the incompetent government?

Joking probably
Last edited by CTALNH on Wed May 08, 2013 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

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Mishmahig
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9032
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mishmahig » Wed May 08, 2013 12:29 am

Irredento wrote:
Mishmahig wrote:Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Why is this a bad thing? Why should a corporation be able to use such weapons if not an individual?


Because the average citizen has no need for artillery. Organizations for mercenaries and whatnot do, as that's part of their business. I have no beef with that. Individuals, however, don't exactly need howitzers in their 9-5 jobs.

Secondly, please point me to a stable government in history that has ever allowed citizens to own artillery. I'll wait.

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Mishmahig
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9032
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Mishmahig » Wed May 08, 2013 12:30 am

CTALNH wrote:
Irredento wrote:Why is this a bad thing? Why should a corporation be able to use such weapons if not an individual?

Because you know they need guns to crack down on the strikers and if the strikers have guns too its gonna be impossible.


This is a silly hypothetical.

If the corporations ever use guns on strikers, then the police and government would land on them like a ton of bricks.

CTALNH wrote:
Mishmahig wrote:
Why should we restrict dangerous weapons that people can use to kill other people?

Really, Senator?

What possible use would the average citizen have for artillery?

To shoot the incompetent government?

Joking probably


Or to launch barrages upon other civilians in a mass-murder spree?

Joking, probably.

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Irredento
Envoy
 
Posts: 313
Founded: Mar 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Irredento » Wed May 08, 2013 12:31 am

Mishmahig wrote:Why should we restrict dangerous weapons that people can use to kill other people?

That's what we're asking. Why?

Mishmahig wrote:What possible use would the average citizen have for artillery?

Why shouldn't an individual be allowed to do mercenary work just as those corporations you mentioned do? Why is it wrong?

Also, perhaps such a weapon could be used to wage war against a tyrannical government in future? It's a just-in-case sort of thing in that scenario and not a weapon that will be used much if at all.

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Seelelander
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: May 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Seelelander » Wed May 08, 2013 12:32 am

Mishmahig wrote:Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Actually, I have a question, re-reading the bill. Where exactly does it ban anything? I see a listing of consequences, should a crime be committed with a weapon, but I don't really see any restrictions on any weapons people can use.


With due respect senator, We don't immediately presume criminality on our citizen's part, so where do you get off saying that the citizen is immediately to be cast under the bus as a criminal for merely retaining the right to bear arms? Does the Senator not understand the purpose of an armed citizenry with civilians completely powerless against a government in power, a government can become as oppressive and totalitarian as it wishes with no reprecussions because the citizens can easily be put down by force of arms. This is why we discourage such monopolization by force of arms. When centralized federal government possesses unlimited power over the people with force of arms, we call this a dictatorship. We as citizens need a deliberate counter to those who would threaten our right to dissent. We must retain the right to keep and bear arms. The presence of armed citizens is what keeps the government respected. No government would be foolish enough to impose a dictatorship on people who have the ability to resist, on the other hand, without this safeguard there is no ability for the citizen to dissent without the threat of force in the other hand. Now with Citizens being able to have all the arms they desire, would they attack a government they consider legitimate? Of course not. Would they attack their fellow citizens if they do not feel threatened? of course not. You are presuming that 100% of our citizens are sociopathic. This does not bode well for your constituents.

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Fulflood
Diplomat
 
Posts: 645
Founded: Dec 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fulflood » Wed May 08, 2013 12:33 am

Seelelander wrote:When centralized federal government possesses unlimited power over the people with force of arms, we call this a dictatorship.

No, we do not.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictatorship
Last edited by Fulflood on Wed May 08, 2013 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I go under the name Vyvland now (IIWiki page). This account is used for the odd foray into the Senate or NSG.
Straight male British apatheist pacifist environmentalist social liberal

Admin, New Democrat member for Lüborg (504) and ambassador to the Red-Greens in the Aurentine Senate. Minister of Business Safety of Aurentina. Apparently that deserves a ministry, but I'm not complaining. I'm probably none of these things anymore. | The Aurentine Phrasebook, my magnum opus.

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Costa Alegria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6454
Founded: Aug 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Costa Alegria » Wed May 08, 2013 12:35 am

Irredento wrote:
Mishmahig wrote:Corporations, Senator. Organizations.

This bill gives the average citizen the right to use artillery.

Why is this a bad thing? Why should a corporation be able to use such weapons if not an individual?


Because it's fucking artillery. There is a reason why ordinary people shouldn't be allowed howitzers, high explosive or chemical weaponry. Because, you know, it will kill someone.

Mishmahig wrote:Why should we restrict dangerous weapons that people can use to kill other people?

Really, Senator?

What possible use would the average citizen have for artillery?


"Hi, Billy Mays here with a great new product for sale! Have annoying neighbours? Know someone down the street who is cheating on his wife? Well, now, you can blow his sorry ass and his entire family to hell by purchasing this great new product. This is a fifty-two calibre, one-five-five milimetre howitzer that fires this high explosive shell with enough power to blow a man in half. But not satisfied? Well, with this great runaway price of just $150,000.99 plus air drop, you can also have sixteen high explosive shells absolutely free!"

Seriously, artillery? If the most retarded ideas could come out of anywhere, it'd be here.
I AM THE RHYMENOCEROUS!
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