Liberal Democratic Party Headquarters[NSG Senate]

[Free South Califas]

Wolfmanne's no antifascist, he's just pretending so as to get your support. He told both us and USLP that we were each obviously the only real communist party

If he tells you something social liberals would obviously like, I suggest not believing it.

Some President - reminds me of Obama.

Lies. I have a huge amount of respect for the Liberal Democrats and for liberalism. I've worked extremely well with Glasgia whilst in office and if any party has any amount Senators that deserves respect, it's the liberals. You're correct, I'm no antifascist. I'm an anti-extremist and a pragmatic.

You should own up to your flirtation with the right wing. That being said, I may have spoken too hastily - perhaps, indeed, this is the one party you won't lie to. Other than omitting any responsibility for the lie you were caught in at the communist parties, but whatever.

I haven't pushed my own personal beliefs on Aurentina, I've always sought compromise. Unlike the Red Foxes, I will not bug you into supporting whatever faction you want. Decide for yourself. I suppose that the Foxes will respect this as well?

What are you on about, now? Red Foxes? Bug you into supporting a faction you want? What?

[The Nihilistic view]

Lies. I have a huge amount of respect for the Liberal Democrats and for liberalism. I've worked extremely well with Glasgia whilst in office and if any party has any amount Senators that deserves respect, it's the liberals. You're correct, I'm no antifascist. I'm an anti-extremist and a pragmatic.

You should own up to your flirtation with the right wing. That being said, I may have spoken too hastily - perhaps, indeed, this is the one party you won't lie to. Other than omitting any responsibility for the lie you were caught in at the communist parties, but whatever.

I haven't pushed my own personal beliefs on Aurentina, I've always sought compromise. Unlike the Red Foxes, I will not bug you into supporting whatever faction you want. Decide for yourself. I suppose that the Foxes will respect this as well?

What are you on about, now? Red Foxes? Bug you into supporting a faction you want? What?

That is why the Monarchist party go on fox hunt's, Hunt the commie animals down!

[Free South Califas]

You should own up to your flirtation with the right wing. That being said, I may have spoken too hastily - perhaps, indeed, this is the one party you won't lie to. Other than omitting any responsibility for the lie you were caught in at the communist parties, but whatever.


What are you on about, now? Red Foxes? Bug you into supporting a faction you want? What?

That is why the Monarchist party go on fox hunt's, Hunt the commie animals down!

What the hell, Senator? Homicide threats? You sicken me.

[The Nihilistic view]

That is why the Monarchist party go on fox hunt's, Hunt the commie animals down!

What the hell, Senator? Homicide threats? You sicken me.

You have never been on a fox hunt senator?

[Free South Califas]

What the hell, Senator? Homicide threats? You sicken me.

You have never been on a fox hunt senator?

1. Never refer to humans as animals, at least in the Senate.
2. You crossed a line for me. I will talk to you about legislation, but that's it. Maybe that'll change sometime down the road.

[Byzantium Imperial]

You have never been on a fox hunt senator?

1. Never refer to humans as animals, at least in the Senate.
2. You crossed a line for me. I will talk to you about legislation, but that's it. Maybe that'll change sometime down the road.

Do you have no sense of humor at all? Or a really thin skin?

By the way, fox hunting for humans= much more enjoyable

[The Nihilistic view]

You have never been on a fox hunt senator?

1. Never refer to humans as animals, at least in the Senate.
2. You crossed a line for me. I will talk to you about legislation, but that's it. Maybe that'll change sometime down the road.

We are not in the senate and anyway last time I checked a fox was an animal.

[Geilinor]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=245946
You guys should check this out. We would be the only left wing party in this coalition, although we do have good relations with several of the right wing parties involved. It is crucial that we figure out what is going on before the new PM is appointed on Thursday.

I would be more than happy to have you as an Ambassador.

Thank you, that means a lot. We will have to wait for Geilinor's approval, though.

We do have good relations with the Progressive-Conservatives, but the LFP and the CFE? Great Nepal's welfare bill gives me some hope, but I'm suspicious. The National Centre Party seems borderline center-right. Personally, I'm much more comfortable with the Totally Rad Party.

[Geilinor]

Hello, everyone. I've just applied in the Senate thread, so here I am!

Welcome to the Liberal Democrats!

[Geilinor]

Wolfmanne's no antifascist, he's just pretending so as to get your support. He told both us and USLP that we were each obviously the only real communist party

If he tells you something social liberals would obviously like, I suggest not believing it.

Some President - reminds me of Obama.

Lies. I have a huge amount of respect for the Liberal Democrats and for liberalism. I've worked extremely well with Glasgia whilst in office and if any party has any amount Senators that deserves respect, it's the liberals. You're correct, I'm no antifascist. I'm an anti-extremist and a pragmatic. I haven't pushed my own personal beliefs on Aurentina, I've always sought compromise. Unlike the Red Foxes, I will not bug you into supporting whatever faction you want. Decide for yourself. I suppose that the Foxes will respect this as well?

I suggest we stop with the nicknames, they just make things worse.

[Geilinor]

We need a new ambassador to the New Social Party. I'll do it in the interim. I think we should elect ambassadors from now on.

I'll take it on. Being ambassador to the CP hasn't given me much work anyways.

Okay. I'll keep you as ambassador to the Communists also for now, until we find someone else.

[Ainin]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=245946
You guys should check this out. We would be the only left wing party in this coalition, although we do have good relations with several of the right wing parties involved. It is crucial that we figure out what is going on before the new PM is appointed on Thursday.



Thank you, that means a lot. We will have to wait for Geilinor's approval, though.

We do have good relations with the Progressive-Conservatives, but the LFP and the CFE? Great Nepal's welfare bill gives me some hope, but I'm suspicious. The National Centre Party seems borderline center-right. Personally, I'm much more comfortable with the Totally Rad Party.

Yay

[The Nihilistic view]

Lies. I have a huge amount of respect for the Liberal Democrats and for liberalism. I've worked extremely well with Glasgia whilst in office and if any party has any amount Senators that deserves respect, it's the liberals. You're correct, I'm no antifascist. I'm an anti-extremist and a pragmatic. I haven't pushed my own personal beliefs on Aurentina, I've always sought compromise. Unlike the Red Foxes, I will not bug you into supporting whatever faction you want. Decide for yourself. I suppose that the Foxes will respect this as well?

I suggest we stop with the nicknames, they just make things worse.

I think that was the idea, he is trying to make things worse, to break the coalition and win an election.

[Geilinor]

I'll politely have to ask the arguments to move to another thread.

[Beta Test]

I propose an idea for a new coalition:

Wolfmanne as President

The parties would include gong from left to right on the political spectrum: The Totally Rad, New Social, Liberal Democrat, Common Sense, Progressive Conservative, National Centre and maybe the Libertarian Freedom Party.

[Great Nepal]

We do have good relations with the Progressive-Conservatives, but the LFP and the CFE? Great Nepal's welfare bill gives me some hope, but I'm suspicious. The National Centre Party seems borderline center-right. Personally, I'm much more comfortable with the Totally Rad Party.

We have reached middle ground with progressive conservatives, and there are no objections from within CFE or UFP. Here's what we have agreed upon, and we are open to compromises to combat the mutual threat of communism. As for Totally Rad Party, while they are quite left, if that is what it takes to have agreement between us and prevent communist from getting into power, I am fine with having coalition agreement with them as well assuming prime ministership and ministry of finance does not go to Totally Rad Party.

- Universal Credit system
- Universal Healthcare wont be repealed if passed.
- Mandatory Open shop
- In order to strike, a secret ballot must be conducted with all union members informed and a simple majority is required at minimum.
- Banned Secondary strikes.
- No direct action.
- Strike Breakers allowed.
- No bossnapping or lock ins.
- Anything that would normally be illegal should be illegal even in case of strike.
- Worker would receive unemployment benefits and the employer may not hire permanent replacements in case of lock outs.
- Large scale Nuclear fission
- Collaboration with ITER
- Meet European emission standards 2050 by 2045
- 70% nuclear, 30% renewable (10% wind, 10% biomass, 10% mix) by 2045
- Tax breaks to companies pursuing nuclear and biomass research.
- Tax breaks for investment into nuclear and biomass research
- Public institutes and universities should be encouraged to seek private investors for their research and link with private companies
- Independent commission to determine the fairness of pricing on utilities.
- Free vote on taxation.
- Buses, Ferries, Underground trains, trams and boats prices are set by independent agency who can be told by local authority but can set prices unless it contradicts local authority.
- Join European Free Trade Association and the Council of Europe.
- Join UN and its thingies.
- No to EU.
- Support current justice bill (Wolf's)
- Join International Criminal Court.
- Have Switzerland EU relation with EU
- Join most of international organisations.
- Ministry of justice goes to Progressive Conservatives.
- Ministry of Research goes to CFE.

[Free South Califas]

Senators of the Liberal Democratic Party, if I may be so bold, I noticed some key parts of your party platform that contradict requirements of the coalition deal offered above by GN:

Article IV: Economy

"The freedom of trade unions to organize should be protected. Workers should strive to secure better living standards."
The coalition proposal from GN above would involve banning secondary strikes and imposing an authoritarian order on the other strikes as well. I don't see how accepting those terms would be allowed by the LDP, although of course there are good things there too, like universal credit which is certainly a humane way of establishing a welfare state.

"...Full employment is an ideal that should be sought..."
In other words, not only must trade unions be free to organize, but they must be encouraged to organize in solidarity with the entire working nation, until full employment is won (if possible) or forever. This implies the freedom to organize a strike whose fundamental purpose is in solidarity with other organizing actions of working Aurentina.

Article V: Social Security

"Low-cost government housing should be created."
We return to the universal credit act...one of whose goals is to preempt the creation of social housing as would be required under the Communist Party's Social Welfare Act.

I don't think I need to go on, three fundamental violations of the party's principles in such a long list ought to be enough to infer the internal consequences of joining such a coalition.

I like LDP. We have disagreements, but I appreciate what you're trying to do here. I want you to stay LDP, and I want to argue with you on that basis. For example, I could have picked some things out of the platform that I disagree with, but that's not why I'm here.

Stay LDP, LDP. That's my plea to the party and its members. Be who you are. Remember who your friends are - the people who want full employment, a strong welfare state, social housing, strong public pensions, etc...

Many thanks for allowing me to bend your ears,
Sen. Califas, Communist Party

[Great Nepal]

Senators of the Liberal Democratic Party, if I may be so bold, I noticed some key parts of your party platform that contradict requirements of the coalition deal offered above by GN:

Article IV: Economy

"The freedom of trade unions to organize should be protected. Workers should strive to secure better living standards."
The coalition proposal from GN above would involve banning secondary strikes and imposing an authoritarian order on the other strikes as well. I don't see how accepting those terms would be allowed by the LDP, although of course there are good things there too, like universal credit which is certainly a humane way of establishing a welfare state.

"...Full employment is an ideal that should be sought..."
In other words, not only must trade unions be free to organize, but they must be encouraged to organize in solidarity with the entire working nation, until full employment is won (if possible) or forever. This implies the freedom to organize a strike whose fundamental purpose is in solidarity with other organizing actions of working Aurentina.

Article V: Social Security

"Low-cost government housing should be created."
We return to the universal credit act...one of whose goals is to preempt the creation of social housing as would be required under the Communist Party's Social Welfare Act.

I don't think I need to go on, three fundamental violations of the party's principles in such a long list ought to be enough to infer the internal consequences of joining such a coalition.

I like LDP. We have disagreements, but I appreciate what you're trying to do here. I want you to stay LDP, and I want to argue with you on that basis. For example, I could have picked some things out of the platform that I disagree with, but that's not why I'm here.

Stay LDP, LDP. That's my plea to the party and its members. Be who you are. Remember who your friends are - the people who want full employment, a strong welfare state, social housing, strong public pensions, etc...

Many thanks for allowing me to bend your ears,
Sen. Califas, Communist Party

I disagree, strikes are meant to improve worker's conditions within their sector. Most of the world have restrictions on strikes, and we will be following in footsteps of nations such as United Kingdom and Australia by not allowing secondary strikes. There are valid reasons to go on strike and going on strike because someone else in completely different sector went on strike isn't it.

And with universal credit, social housing will be unnecessary. State pays individuals enough to pay their rent. Furthermore, social housing can be created under current universal credit proposal provided government pays indivudal who pays government same money. I however can not support that however as part of coalition, Liberal Democrat party can lobby other members to support such act and if required to form coalition, I am willing to concede that.

[Free South Califas]

.

Non sequitur, your proposal is categorically unacceptable to a party with this in its platform:

Article IV: Economy

"The freedom of trade unions to organize should be protected.

Also this:

And with universal credit, social housing will be unnecessary. State pays individuals enough to pay their rent.

Thanks for proving my point. The second part should sound familiar to people who know US politics, from the Republicans who want to gut social programs and replace them all with vouchers.

Anyway, I'm sure that's about as much as they want to hear from us in their HQ about it - no need to go in circles with the same arguments.

[Great Nepal]

.

Non sequitur, your proposal is categorically unacceptable to a party with this in its platform:

Article IV: Economy
"The freedom of trade unions to organize should be protected.

Nothing there prevents trade unions from organising freely.

Also this:

And with universal credit, social housing will be unnecessary. State pays individuals enough to pay their rent.

Thanks for proving my point. The second part should sound familiar to people who know US politics, from the Republicans who want to gut social programs and replace them all with vouchers.

Actually, universal credit gives them money which is calculated to be enough to fund rent, food, clothing and other basic needs so no. If everyone has enough money to afford all those, there is no point in having another program which adds red tape.

Anyway, I'm sure that's about as much as they want to hear from us in their HQ about it - no need to go in circles with the same arguments.

Take this to coalition talks thread?

[Maklohi Vai]

At a preliminary stage, I think FSC does make some good points about how the proposed centrist coalition would conflict with our platform. But at the same time, I do see capacity for the coalition and Nepal to make some concessions that both sides could agree with.

I speak only for myself and not for my party here.

[Glasgia]

I, on the far-left of this party, respect Wolfmanne as an individual who is ready to compromise for the good of this country. However, I think that we would better belong with the current coalition than any which stems from right-wing economics and includes many parties who are unable to compromise.

[Lemanrussland]

Non sequitur, your proposal is categorically unacceptable to a party with this in its platform:

Nothing there prevents trade unions from organising freely.

Also this:Thanks for proving my point. The second part should sound familiar to people who know US politics, from the Republicans who want to gut social programs and replace them all with vouchers.

Actually, universal credit gives them money which is calculated to be enough to fund rent, food, clothing and other basic needs so no. If everyone has enough money to afford all those, there is no point in having another program which adds red tape.

Anyway, I'm sure that's about as much as they want to hear from us in their HQ about it - no need to go in circles with the same arguments.

Take this to coalition talks thread?

I do prefer the social credit as a simple way of providing for general welfare (that is to say, not large, expensive services like health or education, which couldn't be provided through the social credit without making it large enough to become an excessive disincentive to seek employment and work, or without controlling the nature of individual spending).

Social housing, at least in the United States, is quite poorly operated. Often the buildings become cesspools of crime and poverty, with capricious, bureaucratic landlords. I don't look on social/public housing with much good will. I would rather it be voucherized and consolidated under the citizen's credit.

Anyway, this thread is for party business, not debating legislation.

[Wolfmanne]

Lib Dems are welcome to come on IRC for any clarification regarding coalitions (me, Nepal and Geilinor are on).

http://webchat.esper.net/?nick=&channels=NSG_Senate

[Geilinor]

Coalition Voting
Stay in Progress Coalition:

Leave Progress Coalition, be neutral:

Join new coalitionhttp://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=245946: