NSG Senate Coffee Shop (OLD THREAD, DO NOT POST)

[Imperiatom]

Look, you can afford to lose the Monarchists AND the bill will have a greater likelihood of passing. Think about it, the red-greens, communists and the former LA members will vote for a higher rate. The left are quite big, remember.

Also, there seems to be too much emphasis at getting this passed at any cost. There's no point in passing it if it's not adequate.

True, but losing the Monarchists, the Libertarians, and the Progressive Conservatives would be a disaster. It would also mean that the left would gain far more discretion in determining the tax rates. This resolution is adequate for our purposes. We can adjust at a later date as required.

We will all walk out as one block if this does not go to chamber in its present form. We are just fighting for no reason, the majority on the center and right have decided to support it. We are happy as it is. We want to vote on it next week after the present vote is done.

[Vietnam]

Did you see my changes?

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
2.50% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
50.00% of income earned between 2,001,000.00 and 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied.
Any income above 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 60.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 0.00%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 20.00%

Made a few changes. Perhaps we could make a progressive corporate tax? It'd help small businesses get ahead.

changes highlighted in blue

Taxing those in poverty won't get you anywhere.

[Imperiatom]

I just vomited in my mouth a little.

It's even in the Progressive-Conservative platform. It's in the Liberal Democratic platform too. I want revenue to be enough for that, which is why a couple rates need to be increased. Also, nonmedical drugs should be under nonessential goods and services. Such a low rate for drugs is odd and unheard of.

We will can do that latter by small adjustments. Rome was not built in a day .

[Geilinor]

Look, you can afford to lose the Monarchists AND the bill will have a greater likelihood of passing. Think about it, the red-greens, communists and the former LA members will vote for a higher rate. The left are quite big, remember.

Also, there seems to be too much emphasis at getting this passed at any cost. There's no point in passing it if it's not adequate.

True, but losing the Monarchists, the Libertarians, and the Progressive Conservatives would be a disaster. It would also mean that the left would gain far more discretion in determining the tax rates. This resolution is adequate for our purposes. We can adjust at a later date as required.

The Progessive-Conservatives won't stop supporting it. They supported it when I proposed the 10 and 20% rates. There's also the small NPP who'll continue to support it.

[Vietnam]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Do keep in mind that you will lose the CMP's support if you do this. As so clearly demonstrated by the Communists, attempting to appease the leftists is useless as they want your bill to fail so that they can offer a more leftist alternative afterward.

You act as if you represent the entire CMP.

But eh, Communist Party is larger.

[Imperiatom]

Also:


Someone making $5,000,000 a year would pay $2,092,750 in taxes, or less than 41.86%, due to the levies.

Someone making $10,000,000 a year would pay $5,092,750 in taxes, or less than 50.93%.

They'd still be able to live quite comfortably.

This is horrible

My feelings entirely.

[Evraim]

It's even in the Progressive-Conservative platform. It's in the Liberal Democratic platform too. I want revenue to be enough for that, which is why a couple rates need to be increased. Also, nonmedical drugs should be under nonessential goods and services. Such a low rate for drugs is odd and unheard of.

We will can do that latter by small adjustments. Rome was not built in a day .

I concur with our right-wing colleague here.

[Vazdania]

changes highlighted in blue

Taxing those in poverty won't get you anywhere.

Taxing the rich like fuck is totally immoral.

[Cosara]

TEMPORARY LAW

Strenght: Urgent
Authored By: The Right Honorable Senator Cosara.

NOTICING the incredible ammount of crime the nation is suffering.

ASTONISHED that the Senate has not passed measures to stop or reduce this crime.

GIVING local police and military forces the power to detain anyone engaged in an act which is hurting someone else directly (IE, Rape, Assault, Murder ect) or indirectly (Arson, Robbery, ect) and hold the perpetrator indefinitely.

GRANTING the police and military forces the authority to kill any person which is an immedite threat to them (this authority is restrained to incidents where a person is either engaged in an active attempt to injure or kill the police or military or is immenitley going to take such actions).

BANNING the police or military forces from forcing people to hand over weapons or any other type or personal possesion to the Police or military.

ALSO BANNING the police or military from detaining or killing anyone who is not threatening them (see definition under "Granting") or anyone else.

RENDERING this bill null and void when the Senate passes the nation's first criminal code. Until then, this bill shall stand.

[Chestaan]

True, but losing the Monarchists, the Libertarians, and the Progressive Conservatives would be a disaster. It would also mean that the left would gain far more discretion in determining the tax rates. This resolution is adequate for our purposes. We can adjust at a later date as required.

The Progessive-Conservatives won't stop supporting it. They supported it when I proposed the 10 and 20% rates. There's also the small NPP who'll continue to support it.

Geilnor, it's this simple, the rates aren't high enough to fund even basic services, let alone universal healthcare.

You may say we'll raise the rates later, but the monarchists and libertarians won't support that either, so really you would just be kicking the can down the road.

[Geilinor]

5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.

This much of the Communist proposal isn't bad, but I don't like the rates higher than this.

[Vietnam]

TEMPORARY LAW

Strenght: Urgent
Authored By: The Right Honorable Senator Cosara.

NOTICING the incredible ammount of crime the nation is suffering.

ASTONISHED that the Senate has not passed measures to stop or reduce this crime.

GIVING local police and military forces the power to detain anyone engaged in an act which is hurting someone else directly (IE, Rape, Assault, Murder ect) or indirectly (Arson, Robbery, ect) and hold the perpetrator indefinitely.

GRANTING the police and military forces the authority to kill any person which is an immedite threat to them (this authority is restrained to incidents where a person is either engaged in an active attempt to injure or kill the police or military or is immenitley going to take such actions).

BANNING the police or military forces from forcing people to hand over weapons or any other type or personal possesion to the Police or military.

ALSO BANNING the police or military from detaining or killing anyone who is not threatening them (see definition under "Granting") or anyone else.

RENDERING this bill null and void when the Senate passes the nation's first criminal code. Until then, this bill shall stand.

Hahaha, no.

[Geilinor]

The Progessive-Conservatives won't stop supporting it. They supported it when I proposed the 10 and 20% rates. There's also the small NPP who'll continue to support it.

Geilnor, it's this simple, the rates aren't high enough to fund even basic services, let alone universal healthcare.

You may say we'll raise the rates later, but the monarchists and libertarians won't support that either, so really you would just be kicking the can down the road.

True. The Monarchists and Libertarians will never support those services.

[Chestaan]

5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.

This much of the Communist proposal isn't bad, but I don't like the rates higher than this.

These rates, as they will be where the vast majority of revenue will come from, need to rise. I would argue that so do the higher rates, but baby steps.

[Vietnam]

5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.

This much of the Communist proposal isn't bad, but I don't like the rates higher than this.

It should be noted that 45% isn't actually 45% of income taken away.

As I've shown, someone making $5 mil a year would pay less than 42% in taxes.

Also:

The re-designated colored levies are way too high. People should be able to use the money they've earned; we want higher taxes on the rich, not crippling ones.

Someone making $5,000,000 a year would pay $2,092,750 in taxes, or less than 41.86%, due to the levies.

Someone making $10,000,000 a year would pay $5,092,750 in taxes, or less than 50.93%.

They'd still be able to live quite comfortably.

[Vazdania]

TEMPORARY LAW

Strenght: Urgent
Authored By: The Right Honorable Senator Cosara.

NOTICING the incredible ammount of crime the nation is suffering.

ASTONISHED that the Senate has not passed measures to stop or reduce this crime.

GIVING local police and military forces the power to detain anyone engaged in an act which is hurting someone else directly (IE, Rape, Assault, Murder ect) or indirectly (Arson, Robbery, ect) and hold the perpetrator indefinitely.

GRANTING the police and military forces the authority to kill any person which is an immedite threat to them (this authority is restrained to incidents where a person is either engaged in an active attempt to injure or kill the police or military or is immenitley going to take such actions).

BANNING the police or military forces from forcing people to hand over weapons or any other type or personal possesion to the Police or military.

ALSO BANNING the police or military from detaining or killing anyone who is not threatening them (see definition under "Granting") or anyone else.

RENDERING this bill null and void when the Senate passes the nation's first criminal code. Until then, this bill shall stand.

Detain for a period of no more than 24 hours*

[Othelos]

TEMPORARY LAW

Strenght: Urgent
Authored By: The Right Honorable Senator Cosara.

NOTICING the incredible ammount of crime the nation is suffering.

ASTONISHED that the Senate has not passed measures to stop or reduce this crime.

GIVING local police and military forces the power to detain anyone engaged in an act which is hurting someone else directly (IE, Rape, Assault, Murder ect) or indirectly (Arson, Robbery, ect) and hold the perpetrator indefinitely.

GRANTING the police and military forces the authority to kill any person which is an immedite threat to them (this authority is restrained to incidents where a person is either engaged in an active attempt to injure or kill the police or military or is immenitley going to take such actions).

BANNING the police or military forces from forcing people to hand over weapons or any other type or personal possesion to the Police or military.

ALSO BANNING the police or military from detaining or killing anyone who is not threatening them (see definition under "Granting") or anyone else.

RENDERING this bill null and void when the Senate passes the nation's first criminal code. Until then, this bill shall stand.

Hahaha, no.

Agreed.

[Imperiatom]

We will can do that latter by small adjustments. Rome was not built in a day .

I concur with our right-wing colleague here.

Post your final draft and send it we must start somewhere, and the current one has broad support from 5 parties with just 2 against. plus interdependent support such as yourself.

[Chestaan]

Geilnor, it's this simple, the rates aren't high enough to fund even basic services, let alone universal healthcare.

You may say we'll raise the rates later, but the monarchists and libertarians won't support that either, so really you would just be kicking the can down the road.

True. The Monarchists and Libertarians will never support those services.

Exactly. So we might as well attempt to raise the necessary taxes now.

[Othelos]

True. The Monarchists and Libertarians will never support those services.

Exactly. So we might as well attempt to raise the necessary taxes now.

And 65% is necessary? No thanks.

[Irredento]

We will all walk out as one block if this does not go to chamber in its present form. We are just fighting for no reason, the majority on the center and right have decided to support it. We are happy as it is. We want to vote on it next week after the present vote is done.

I feel reassured that we won't be alone in this. Centrists need to learn that a socialist can never be appeased with mere concessions as they won't be satisfied until they have their "utopia". There is no point in trying to appease them, especially when the centre and the right are already providing more than enough support for this bill together.

[Geilinor]

Could we agree on this? Would it have possible Red-Green support, at least?
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
25.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned from 1,001,000.00 and up.

[Benomia]

TEMPORARY LAW

Strenght: Urgent
Authored By: The Right Honorable Senator Cosara.

NOTICING the incredible ammount of crime the nation is suffering.

ASTONISHED that the Senate has not passed measures to stop or reduce this crime.

GIVING local police and military forces the power to detain anyone engaged in an act which is hurting someone else directly (IE, Rape, Assault, Murder ect) or indirectly (Arson, Robbery, ect) and hold the perpetrator indefinitely.

GRANTING the police and military forces the authority to kill any person which is an immedite threat to them (this authority is restrained to incidents where a person is either engaged in an active attempt to injure or kill the police or military or is immenitley going to take such actions).

BANNING the police or military forces from forcing people to hand over weapons or any other type or personal possesion to the Police or military.

ALSO BANNING the police or military from detaining or killing anyone who is not threatening them (see definition under "Granting") or anyone else.

RENDERING this bill null and void when the Senate passes the nation's first criminal code. Until then, this bill shall stand.

Hahaha, no.

[Cosara]

TEMPORARY LAW

Strenght: Urgent
Authored By: The Right Honorable Senator Cosara.

NOTICING the incredible ammount of crime the nation is suffering.

ASTONISHED that the Senate has not passed measures to stop or reduce this crime.

GIVING local police and military forces the power to detain anyone engaged in an act which is hurting someone else directly (IE, Rape, Assault, Murder ect) or indirectly (Arson, Robbery, ect) and hold the perpetrator indefinitely.

GRANTING the police and military forces the authority to kill any person which is an immedite threat to them (this authority is restrained to incidents where a person is either engaged in an active attempt to injure or kill the police or military or is immenitley going to take such actions).

BANNING the police or military forces from forcing people to hand over weapons or any other type or personal possesion to the Police or military.

ALSO BANNING the police or military from detaining or killing anyone who is not threatening them (see definition under "Granting") or anyone else.

RENDERING this bill null and void when the Senate passes the nation's first criminal code. Until then, this bill shall stand.

Hahaha, no.

Would you rather that crime rates continue to skyrocket?

[Chestaan]

Exactly. So we might as well attempt to raise the necessary taxes now.

And 65% is necessary? No thanks.

For higher earners. I'm willing to compromise though. The current rates aren't enough to fund half of what's needed.