NSG Senate Coffee Shop (OLD THREAD, DO NOT POST)

[Benomia]

I will vote down (and I assume my party will as well) any and all bills that include the establishment of a sales tax.

[Imperiatom]

Keep it as is. Should we change the 5% rate to 10% and the 15% rate to 20% for those who want more taxes on the average person?

I urge you to submit the text as it is. We cannot risk alienating the Liberal Democrats by giving more concessions to the Monarchists and we cannot risk alienating the Monarchists by giving more concessions to the Communists.

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup, Irredento

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied
Any income above 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 45.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 7.25%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

Ok how about the 5% become 10% and the 15% becomes 20% If the top rate only kicks in at 1.2 million instead of 1m?

[Geilinor]

I don't know if we'll raise enough revenue taxing average people that little.

At this point, I think it's this or nothing. If we raise the tax rates on the middle-class or the wealthy any higher, we'll isolate ourselves, and risk a political defeat in the Senate. We can debate the issue again later, but I would prefer to obtain funding now.

We could always add more taxes when we get to universal healthcare and social security. Most countries have additional taxes for those things.

[Irredento]

I don't know if we'll raise enough revenue taxing average people that little.

We'll have to keep spending down and leave most things to the private sector. I'm alright with this.

[Irredento]

universal healthcare and social security

I just vomited in my mouth a little.

[Chestaan]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Look, you can afford to lose the Monarchists AND the bill will have a greater likelihood of passing. Think about it, the red-greens, communists and the former LA members will vote for a higher rate. The left are quite big, remember.

Also, there seems to be too much emphasis at getting this passed at any cost. There's no point in passing it if it's not adequate.

[Evraim]

At this point, I think it's this or nothing. If we raise the tax rates on the middle-class or the wealthy any higher, we'll isolate ourselves, and risk a political defeat in the Senate. We can debate the issue again later, but I would prefer to obtain funding now.

We could always add more taxes when we get to universal healthcare and social security. Most countries have additional taxes for those things.

That's always possible, but, right now, we need the Monarchists and Libertarians. We need tax revenue.

[Benomia]

universal healthcare and social security

I just vomited in my mouth a little.

It's okay, I hate progress too.

[Vietnam]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Did you see my changes?

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
50.00% of income earned between 2,001,000.00 and 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied.
Any income above 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 60.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 0.00%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

Made a few changes. Perhaps we could make a progressive corporate tax? It'd help small businesses get ahead.

[Vazdania]

I will vote down (and I assume my party will as well) any and all bills that include the establishment of a sales tax.

okay. I was just thinking of ways to generate revenue that would be supported by both polar groups.

[Imperiatom]

At this point, I think it's this or nothing. If we raise the tax rates on the middle-class or the wealthy any higher, we'll isolate ourselves, and risk a political defeat in the Senate. We can debate the issue again later, but I would prefer to obtain funding now.

We could always add more taxes when we get to universal healthcare and social security. Most countries have additional taxes for those things.

Yeah sounds like a good plan. Lets send it to chamber as it is with the cross party support. we can argue about the 5% here or there at another time.

[Irredento]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Do keep in mind that you will lose the CMP's support if you do this. As so clearly demonstrated by the Communists, attempting to appease the leftists is useless as they want your bill to fail so that they can offer a more leftist alternative afterward.

[Chestaan]

At this point, I think it's this or nothing. If we raise the tax rates on the middle-class or the wealthy any higher, we'll isolate ourselves, and risk a political defeat in the Senate. We can debate the issue again later, but I would prefer to obtain funding now.

We could always add more taxes when we get to universal healthcare and social security. Most countries have additional taxes for those things.

HOW can you expect to pay for universal healthcare and social security with such incredibly low rates? It will never work. The tax rates are far, far too low. They're lower than the US!

And you may say we can change it, but why wait? Why not fix it now?

[Geilinor]

universal healthcare and social security

I just vomited in my mouth a little.

It's even in the Progressive-Conservative platform. It's in the Liberal Democratic platform too. I want revenue to be enough for that, which is why a couple rates need to be increased. Also, nonmedical drugs should be under nonessential goods and services. Such a low rate for drugs is odd and unheard of.

[Vazdania]

universal healthcare and social security

I just vomited in my mouth a little.

[Evraim]

Look, you can afford to lose the Monarchists AND the bill will have a greater likelihood of passing. Think about it, the red-greens, communists and the former LA members will vote for a higher rate. The left are quite big, remember.

Also, there seems to be too much emphasis at getting this passed at any cost. There's no point in passing it if it's not adequate.

True, but losing the Monarchists, the Libertarians, and the Progressive Conservatives would be a disaster. It would also mean that the left would gain far more discretion in determining the tax rates. This resolution is adequate for our purposes. We can adjust at a later date as required.

[Imperiatom]

We could always add more taxes when we get to universal healthcare and social security. Most countries have additional taxes for those things.

That's always possible, but, right now, we need the Monarchists and Libertarians. We need tax revenue.

As it is currently. don't alienate the Monarchists.

[Vietnam]

Also:

[box]Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
50.00% of income earned between 2,001,000.00 and 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied.
Any income above 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 60.00%

The re-designated colored levies are way too high. People should be able to use the money they've earned; we want higher taxes on the rich, not crippling ones.

Someone making $5,000,000 a year would pay $2,092,750 in taxes, or less than 41.86%, due to the levies.

Someone making $10,000,000 a year would pay $5,092,750 in taxes, or less than 50.93%.

They'd still be able to live quite comfortably.

[Benomia]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Did you see my changes?

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
50.00% of income earned between 2,001,000.00 and 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied.
Any income above 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 60.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 0.00%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

Made a few changes. Perhaps we could make a progressive corporate tax? It'd help small businesses get ahead.

Raise taxes slightly all around, and offer gasoline for free.

#extremist

[Irredento]

I think we should send the bill to the chamber as is. You are seriously risking losing the right's support by discussing this any longer as you are seemingly way too open to the idea of appeasing the left.

[Imperiatom]

Look, you can afford to lose the Monarchists AND the bill will have a greater likelihood of passing. Think about it, the red-greens, communists and the former LA members will vote for a higher rate. The left are quite big, remember.

Also, there seems to be too much emphasis at getting this passed at any cost. There's no point in passing it if it's not adequate.

True, but losing the Monarchists, the Libertarians, and the Progressive Conservatives would be a disaster. It would also mean that the left would gain far more discretion in determining the tax rates. This resolution is adequate for our purposes. We can adjust at a later date as required.

Post the bill you intend to send with all the co signatures and then send it.

[Chestaan]

Look, you can afford to lose the Monarchists AND the bill will have a greater likelihood of passing. Think about it, the red-greens, communists and the former LA members will vote for a higher rate. The left are quite big, remember.

Also, there seems to be too much emphasis at getting this passed at any cost. There's no point in passing it if it's not adequate.

True, but losing the Monarchists, the Libertarians, and the Progressive Conservatives would be a disaster. It would also mean that the left would gain far more discretion in determining the tax rates. This resolution is adequate for our purposes. We can adjust at a later date as required.

Don't the PC'S support a social safety net? The current rates aren't adequate for that.

[Vazdania]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Did you see my changes?

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
2.50% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 30,999.99 NSC shall be levied
10.00% of income earned between 31,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 250,999.99 NSC shall be levied
35.00% of income earned between 251,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied
45.00% of income earned between 1,001,000.00 and 2,000,999.99 NSC shall be levied.
50.00% of income earned between 2,001,000.00 and 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied.
Any income above 5,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 60.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 0.00%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 20.00%

Made a few changes. Perhaps we could make a progressive corporate tax? It'd help small businesses get ahead.

changes highlighted in blue

[Benomia]

No.

Any specific reasons why not? The list doesn't have to be long, hell, it can be two choices - or even one - but the nation does need a name.

For one, the name of {Unnamed Nation} works. For another, there's no way we will ever be able to decide upon a name that's not Nationia.

[Vazdania]

Also:

The re-designated colored levies are way too high. People should be able to use the money they've earned; we want higher taxes on the rich, not crippling ones.

Someone making $5,000,000 a year would pay $2,092,750 in taxes, or less than 41.86%, due to the levies.

Someone making $10,000,000 a year would pay $5,092,750 in taxes, or less than 50.93%.

They'd still be able to live quite comfortably.

This is horrible